Classism in the marvel universe?

[t hedge coke]

I never read Marvel Divas. Could you please explain how it addressed classicism?

It's very strongly about cliques in the superhero world and the kind of social striations between Hellcat and Photon and the Invisible Woman or Wasp. Neither side is less or more guilty of anything, but class and access are acknowledged. Who sits at what table and when.

On a broader, and perhaps unintentional level, the main characters go to the Savage Land to release large amounts of deadly radiation so nothing (important) gets hurt. The superhero equivalent of picking an Indian reservation to dump your waste or test your a-bombs on; south sea atolls, etc.

The name came before the series and doesn't really communicate what the book is (neither did the ad copy at the time, as I recall). It's basically a four issue, sappy episode of Sex and the City.

[Frontier]

The name came before the series and doesn't really communicate what the book is (neither did the ad copy at the time, as I recall). It's basically a four issue, sappy episode of Sex and the City.

I'm pretty sure that's how it was advertised in solicits at least...

[t hedge coke]

I'm pretty sure that's how it was advertised in solicits at least...

I just remember "Hot! Hot! Hoooottt!" and something like "bubbly" or "frothy."

[edit: Found it.

"What happens when you take four of the Marvel Universe’s most fabulous single girls and throw them together, adding liberal amounts of suds and drama? You get the sassiest, sexiest, soapiest series to come out of the House of Ideas since Millie the Model! Romance, action, ex-boyfriends, and a last page that changes everything! Let your inner divas out with this one, fellas, you won’t regret it!"]

[Anduinel]

Back in the Byrne era of Alpha Flight, the team was disbanded and their government funding removed, which created some interesting situations and more of an underdog feel. Most of them had day jobs or actual careers (Shaman was a doctor, Snowbird was with the RCMP, Jeanne-Marie a teacher, Northstar had his skiing, etc.), the Hudsons were essentially trying to run the team out of their apartment, the team wound up holding an inquest into Northstar's terrorist activities in someone's living room, that sort of thing. The team got turned into Avengers North, complete with mansion, as soon as Byrne left the book, of course.

[Michael Watkins]

It's not the character that bugs me. It's the fans who take all that into account and then still go "he's still working class." He's not. Working class people don't own private brownstones in the City that they can support and add onto without having to rent something out or take a loan, anything. Matt, as an adult, has traditionally done very well for himself, financially. There are storylines where he "loses it all" or temporarily gives up some of his wealth, but he tends to get it all back.

And, that's cool. He's be lesser for losing these trappings. But, he's not "just some guy."

it's hard to be just some guy when you have superpowers. but I think that you're overselling the brownstone. he still lives in fictional Hell's Kitchen, right? his dad struggled mightily to get Matt into college. and Matt studied pretty damn hard to get his way through, as well. he's not a blue blood or a trust fund kid. he still goes to the Night Nurse like every other costumed hero. he doesn't have a broker. he might not even have health insurance. Marvel should put out the earnings of popular marvel heroes to put this to bed.

[t hedge coke]

it's hard to be just some guy when you have superpowers. but I think that you're overselling the brownstone. he still lives in fictional Hell's Kitchen, right? his dad struggled mightily to get Matt into college. and Matt studied pretty damn hard to get his way through, as well. he's not a blue blood or a trust fund kid. he still goes to the Night Nurse like every other costumed hero. he doesn't have a broker. he might not even have health insurance. Marvel should put out the earnings of popular marvel heroes to put this to bed.

Night Nurse isn't for lack of money, though, as it is about discretion, yes?

If, as a successful attorney in New York City he doesn't have health insurance... that's not for lack of affordability. While many, many people in that city would and do have a hard time affording it.

I'm not slighting him. He's earned his money, inasmuch as a fictional character can earn it. It just seems detrimental for us to try to make that either poor or even working class.

[gurkle]

There's also some clear class difference between Reed Richards, the fancy-talkin' kid from a privileged background, and Ben Grimm, whose accent and rough manners mark him as "lower" class. The difference between them would still exist even if Reed was poor and Ben was rich, and isn't quite the same thing as ethnicity or religion, because they're defined in part by what neighborhood they grew up in and how they talk.

In general I think there's an element of classism involved with a character whose first language is English but is given a phonetic accent. The idea behind Rogue or Cannonball's accents is that they don't quite talk "normal." That's one of the reasons phonetic accents have fallen out of fashion, because it implies that the people who don't talk with those accents are just people who have no accents at all.

[Michael Watkins]

Night Nurse isn't for lack of money, though, as it is about discretion, yes?

If, as a successful attorney in New York City he doesn't have health insurance... that's not for lack of affordability. While many, many people in that city would and do have a hard time affording it.

I'm not slighting him. He's earned his money, inasmuch as a fictional character can earn it. It just seems detrimental for us to try to make that either poor or even working class.

Is he successful, though? I think that a lot of his clients take advantage of his idealism.

[t hedge coke]

Is he successful, though? I think that a lot of his clients take advantage of his idealism.

His clients have included the FF and various Avengers with unlimited credit cards.

I don't remember the last time he or any of his staff couldn't make rent or got evicted from their office space. He doesn't seem to struggle to buy groceries or pay his property taxes on an entire building in a city that's notoriously expensive to live in.

[Reviresco]

Every once in a while you have a writer that addresses class in the Atlantean society. Namor's long time Vizier, Vashti, was actually a poor farmer, who he raised to high status after an adventure. Of course, we never really get the story how Vashti coped with that. LOL!

The Punisher steals some of the money from the organised crime organisations he targets. Microchip used to launder and manage the Punisher's money.

Most the X-Men were teachers like you said. Some of the X-Men have had other jobs. Iceman has been an accountant, Wolverine a soldier, Jean Grey a model, Beast a research scientists, Cyclops a pilot and Psylocke model/spy.

Most of Marvel's super genius fund their adventures with their inventions (Mr Fantastic, Hank Pym and Iron Man).

The Royal superheroes don't have to worry about money (Black Panther, Thor, Namor and the Inhuman royal family)

Luke Cage is a working class heroes that used his powers as a hero for hire.

Namor actually has had to "worry about money" and unlike the rest of the Marvel royals, has real experience as the poorest of the poor. He was an amnesiac living on the streets of NYC for a while, and some writers seem to take that into account. It was addressed directly in Tales of the Marvels, Inner Demons.

[Michael Watkins]

Every once in a while you have a writer that addresses class in the Atlantean society. Namor's long time Vizier, Vashti, was actually a poor farmer, who he raised to high status after an adventure. Of course, we never really get the story how Vashti coped with that. LOL!




Namor actually has had to "worry about money" and unlike the rest of the Marvel royals, has real experience as the poorest of the poor. He was an amnesiac living on the streets of NYC for a while, and some writers seem to take that into account. It was addressed directly in Tales of the Marvels, Inner Demons.

being amnesic doesn't really count when you're 1) royalty and 2) strong enough to just take what you want. Namor grew up in an underwater castle.

[Reviresco]

There's also some clear class difference between Reed Richards, the fancy-talkin' kid from a privileged background, and Ben Grimm, whose accent and rough manners mark him as "lower" class. The difference between them would still exist even if Reed was poor and Ben was rich, and isn't quite the same thing as ethnicity or religion, because they're defined in part by what neighborhood they grew up in and how they talk.

In general I think there's an element of classism involved with a character whose first language is English but is given a phonetic accent. The idea behind Rogue or Cannonball's accents is that they don't quite talk "normal." That's one of the reasons phonetic accents have fallen out of fashion, because it implies that the people who don't talk with those accents are just people who have no accents at all.

This is definitely true in the early days of the FF -- when Reed was portrayed as the "older" pipe smoking professor. I don't think we see it as much in modern times.

[Michael Watkins]

[Reviresco]

being amnesic doesn't really count when you're 1) royalty and 2) strong enough to just take what you want. Namor grew up in an underwater castle.

Clearly you haven't read anything about Namor's time as an amnesiac.

[t hedge coke]

Ben actually has been independently wealthy.

And, there was a nice one-off issue of FF where he revisits the building he grew up in and the neighborhood really doesn't care for him. In general I think that's the best motive for the Yancey St Gang, that they both dislike that he's "too good" now and that they're showing their pride in him the way you do when you need to preserve your own pride, too.