Now that some of the dust has settled, how does DC continuity work?

[gregorynbaker]

Dear all,

I am almost exclusively a Marvel fan, but I love many of the DC characters, especially as found in the DC Animated Universe of Bruce Timm, etc. I was slowly getting into DC comics as well, especially trying to find some sort of linear chronology of both pre- and post-Crisis comics using the work of Chris J. Miller at "The Unauthorized Chronology of the DC Universe." Then Flashpoint happened and I said, "I'm out!" What I love most about Marvel is, despite some ups and downs, the chronology has remained consistent from 1939 to the present. I could see hints of a single story line coming through in DC as well, but Flashpoint seemed to flush almost 75 years of stories down the toilet. The sense was, "I guess SOME of that stuff happened, but not remotely like it actually was in the comics, so all that time, money, and emotional energy you spent reading them is gone." As far as I was concerned, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. were all dead and never coming back. To add insult to injury, the New 52 seemed to be drawing upon the worst excesses of grimdark in the 90s, so I stopped paying anymore attention to DC.

Well, five years later, Rebirth has brought back Superman and Wally West with their memories intact. But what about the rest of the DC universe? Is the New 52 now basically a story where, "There was this linear history, but thanks to squishing Earths together, everyone's history got fouled up. The original is still correct, but only a few know the truth." OR is it, "this is just another Earth, and Post-Crisis characters are now crashing on it, and their world is still out there somewhere?"

Could someone has has read (most) of the New 52 stuff and Rebirth give me a concise explanation (if possible) of what is going on?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Trust me, I know what you're going through. I tried for a long time to convince myself that the New 52 was a fitting replacement for the Pre-Flashpoint DC Universe, but it just...wasn't. It didn't even really feel like the DC Universe anymore.

Is the New 52 now basically a story where, "There was this linear history, but thanks to squishing Earths together, everyone's history got fouled up. The original is still correct, but only a few know the truth."

Its closer to this one, yes. The Rebirth one shot established that this is the Pre-New 52 DC Universe, but when the timeline was coming back together after Flashpoint, some force outside of time reached in and snatched 10 years from the timeline, which then caused a ripple effect. Those 10 years are at least most likely Pre-Flashpoint DC stories. So, the founding of the JLA as it was originally told (and pretty much the entire history of the team), the Wolfman/Perez NTT, Batman: Year One, etc. Rebirth is about getting that history back in the timeline, because, well, the heroes have flat out said that its been stolen. Whenever something is "stolen" in a superhero story, the ensuing story is about getting it back.

I imagine at the end of this, everyone's memories will line up with Superman's memories. So, the New 52 stories will still count. BUT they will just be adapted and folded into the timeline that existed before. So, for example, after Rebirth, Batman will still have fought the Court of Owls and been an amnesiac for a while, but those experiences will be tacked onto his Pre-Flashpoint life.

[colonyofcells]

The dust has not settled yet since the 10 lost years seem to be returning slowly over 2 years. When the dust settles, clutter earth or current earth will probably have most of the pre flashpoint history with some changes such as there are now more gays and more bisexuals (maybe Oz is bisexual or something). Pre flashpoint history does include all of dc history from 1938 onwards : the modified golden age (minus golden age superman, minus golden age batman), world war 2 heroes, silver age, pre coie, post coie, etc.

[GlennSimpson]

There are two timelines, basically.

One is the one the characters are living in. Sometimes there is an event at a given point in that timeline that ripples forward and backward and changes all of history, the present and the future (although obv the future is never all that locked down to begin with).

The other one, at a "higher" level kinda looks like the publication timeline. At that level you can actually see those changes happening and "when" they happen.

There are a few places that exist with a foothold in each of the above. The Speed Force is one of them.

When Wally West was trapped in the Speed Force, because it exists between those two timelines in a way, he was able to get some information about a previous version of the timeline.

The current Superman, although there's still some mystery as to where he came from, at least believes that he traveled along that "higher" timeline, going from a previous timeline to the current one.

For some reason (Wally's return?) there are a few events here and there in the "lower" timeline that are reverting back a little here and there to look more like the previous one.

Fans are in some dispute as to where things are going to end up. Some say that the lower timeline will shift again dramatically to be more of an amalgamation of this one and the previous one; others thing that the changes will be very subtle and not add up to much.

It helps to understand it from a real-world perspective: DC wanted to wipe the slate clean for the properties that weren't selling as well, and gave their writers/artists the freedom to reinvent all sorts of things. And then when enough fans rejected the changes, now they are trying to ease some things back to a place that those fans would be happier with. In Marvel terms, they did a Heroes Reborn for most of their line, but rather than doing a Heroes Return, they are just going to make "Reborn" a little bit more like things were before.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Actually, it is a Heroes Return move. Wally and Superman know the state of affairs that existed before Flashpoint, in Wally's case, it's "some" (70%?) of it and in Superman's its all of it. There's no denying that. The most likely bet is that the timeline at the end of Rebirth will mirror their memories.

Plus, DC hopefully knows by now that if they don't actually bring that continuity back, the fans will just reject it all over again. There's already talk about fans being displeased that DC didn't go "all the way" back at the beginning of Rebirth. If they don't actually go ALL the way back by Rebirth's end, they'll just keep losing to Marvel.

[Nite-Wing]

Dc fans will have to wait a long time for the pre 52 continuity to come back
Its dead
Cyborg is a founding member of the JL
Hal is no longer the only GL ever

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Dc fans will have to wait a long time for the pre 52 continuity to come back
Its dead

Wally and Superman say otherwise

Cyborg is a founding member of the JL

For now. Superman has even said at one point "having Cyborg founding the JL instead of with the Titans seems unnatural."

Hal is no longer the only GL ever

Uh...that wasn't even the case before the New 52. Hal hasn't been the only GL since the 60s.

[Lee]

It helps to understand it from a real-world perspective: DC wanted to wipe the slate clean for the properties that weren't selling as well, and gave their writers/artists the freedom to reinvent all sorts of things.

Sort of. The writers and artists didn't get much freedom. There were a lot of horror stories at the time about how micro-managed and flip-floppy so much of New 52 was.

[sustainentropy]

For now. Superman has even said at one point "having Cyborg founding the JL instead of with the Titans seems unnatural."

Where did this happen? I'm not disagreeing, I want to read it!

[GlennSimpson]

Sort of. The writers and artists didn't get much freedom. There were a lot of horror stories at the time about how micro-managed and flip-floppy so much of New 52 was.

Well, OK, DC's 'creators' had that freedom, which includes the editors

[gregorynbaker]

Thank you for the quick reply. So when is "Rebirth" ending? Given the sales boost I can understand DC wanting to keep it going for as long as possible. I thought it was more of a summer crossover that would be at least winding down by now.

The "Heroes Reborn/Return" seemed to be the best analogy, only with ALL the heroes, and not just the ones Jim Lee wanted to play with (actually Jim Lee is still doing that). I do feel bad for people who, unlike me, did NOT like the weight of 75 years of stories and enjoyed the clean slate the New 52 offered. I wish there could be something kind of like the Marvel 616/1610 "Ultimate" universes where things developed in parallel. Heck, even an old fashioned Earth-1/Earth-2 crossover where the old school and new fangled version got to team up from time to time to face cosmic level threats might be fun. Even the short sleeve, Diana-lovin', angsty Superman of the New 52 was SOMEONE's favorite...

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Where did this happen? I'm not disagreeing, I want to read it!

It was in the Lois and Clark series that immediately preceded Rebirth. I think it was issue #1

[GlennSimpson]

Thank you for the quick reply. So when is "Rebirth" ending? Given the sales boost I can understand DC wanting to keep it going for as long as possible. I thought it was more of a summer crossover that would be at least winding down by now.

The "Heroes Reborn/Return" seemed to be the best analogy, only with ALL the heroes, and not just the ones Jim Lee wanted to play with (actually Jim Lee is still doing that). I do feel bad for people who, unlike me, did NOT like the weight of 75 years of stories and enjoyed the clean slate the New 52 offered. I wish there could be something kind of like the Marvel 616/1610 "Ultimate" universes where things developed in parallel. Heck, even an old fashioned Earth-1/Earth-2 crossover where the old school and new fangled version got to team up from time to time to face cosmic level threats might be fun. Even the short sleeve, Diana-lovin', angsty Superman of the New 52 was SOMEONE's favorite...

According to DC, the plotline around what altered the DC Universe (working in conjuction with Barry Allen's time tampering) is supposed to play out over the next couple of years.

In terms of books being relaunched under the "Rebirth" banner, we know of a few more coming out early next year. I would imagine it will settle down for a while after that (the relaunches that is).

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Thank you for the quick reply. So when is "Rebirth" ending? Given the sales boost I can understand DC wanting to keep it going for as long as possible. I thought it was more of a summer crossover that would be at least winding down by now.

The "Heroes Reborn/Return" seemed to be the best analogy, only with ALL the heroes, and not just the ones Jim Lee wanted to play with (actually Jim Lee is still doing that). I do feel bad for people who, unlike me, did NOT like the weight of 75 years of stories and enjoyed the clean slate the New 52 offered. I wish there could be something kind of like the Marvel 616/1610 "Ultimate" universes where things developed in parallel. Heck, even an old fashioned Earth-1/Earth-2 crossover where the old school and new fangled version got to team up from time to time to face cosmic level threats might be fun. Even the short sleeve, Diana-lovin', angsty Superman of the New 52 was SOMEONE's favorite...

They've stated that Rebirth will play out in the books over the next two years. Presumably, it will culminate in one big event that deals with Dr. Manhattan and the changes he made.

[Colossus1980]

I know everything is supposed to be revealed later on but some things have got me confused thinking about it.

Are all the current characters from the same timeline as Wally West who travelled back and recalled everything?
Or are they from this current world that Dr. Manhattan made? For instance Amanda Waller. She from Wally's world or from this newly created world?
Have most of the main characters gotten younger? Like Ollie Queen, Steve Trevor, Barbra Gordon? Or again, are some from Wally's world and some were created by Dr. Manhattan?

Not a big fan of these big time jumps or whatever you like to call it here. Don't care how Marvel has jumped ahead a year to fill in the gaps later just like how DC has promised to reveal everything later.