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  1. #61
    iMan 42s
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    This is basically Secret War's delays all over again except most books went (mostly) without a peep of the event.
    I'll just read the damn event and watch the comments tear into Bendis as several other writers continue to get away with glaring characterization screw ups and plot-holes the size of a school bus.
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  2. #62

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    Not gonna lie. I've kind of lost interest in this event. Marvel is already jumping the gun, releasing issues about the post-Civil War II status quo. A lot has already been spoiled. We know Tony Stark doesn't make it out in one piece. We know Captain Marvel is still heavily criticized, even among her own teammates. We know Captain America isn't dead and Miles Morales isn't in jail. This whole series has been great in terms of sheer quality, but the delays are really hurting it, just like Secret Wars. Marvel really needs to get on top of this for the next event. If they can't find a way to keep these events cohesive and on time, then the quality is going to suffer. I don't know if it's due to editors issues or artists being unable to keep up with the workload, but someone needs to find a way to streamline this process. It's starting to happen way too often and quality stories are suffering because of it.
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  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Ken Ashcroft's Avatar
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    I don't think Marvel really cares about all the criticism or the quality of the stories suffering as long as the sales figures are not suffering too.

  4. #64
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Ashcroft View Post
    I don't think Marvel really cares about all the criticism or the quality of the stories suffering as long as the sales figures are not suffering too.
    Yep, unfortunately .

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member John Ossie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Ashcroft View Post
    I don't think Marvel really cares about all the criticism or the quality of the stories suffering as long as the sales figures are not suffering too.
    That kinda sounds like WCW back in the day.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ossie View Post
    That kinda sounds like WCW back in the day.
    What an apt analogy. Well done, Sir.


    As for CWII.....

    As much as I am a massive Bendis apologist (Disassembled was amazing. F**k you.) This series has been phoned in.

    It's all the usual Bendis themes and plot-lines with no originality in it's execution. It's a shame because Infamous Iron Man is another typical Bendis piece, yet it's 2 issues have been far and above compared to CWII.

    I am looking forward to sitting down and checking the whole thing in trade, sometimes it makes for an improved reading experience. But I can't deny that, so far, this has been a disappointment, no matter how good I wanted it to be.

  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member John Ossie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid_Quantum View Post
    What an apt analogy. Well done, Sir.
    Thank you, thank you

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    Not gonna lie. I've kind of lost interest in this event. Marvel is already jumping the gun, releasing issues about the post-Civil War II status quo. A lot has already been spoiled. We know Tony Stark doesn't make it out in one piece. We know Captain Marvel is still heavily criticized, even among her own teammates. We know Captain America isn't dead and Miles Morales isn't in jail. This whole series has been great in terms of sheer quality, but the delays are really hurting it, just like Secret Wars. Marvel really needs to get on top of this for the next event. If they can't find a way to keep these events cohesive and on time, then the quality is going to suffer. I don't know if it's due to editors issues or artists being unable to keep up with the workload, but someone needs to find a way to streamline this process. It's starting to happen way too often and quality stories are suffering because of it.
    It seems to me, that Events get agreed upon, and those conscripted to create it are put on notice pretty quickly and told to write it. The trouble is, it's not like a mini series or a 6 issue arc. There's the rewrites. So the writer can follow his outline, until editorial starts altering it by issue 2, then the rewrites need rewrites, and what seemed like a simple 7 issue book, gets sidetracked everytime they do this. There never seems to be time to set aside the summer blockbuster event, get everybody in the room together to sort out continuity issues, and finish the thing well ahead of time. What seems to happen is they can get 3 months ahead but no longer, and when the first issue gets released, already issue 3 is on a rewrite, and the artist can't get in front because he doesn't get the final script till very late in the piece.
    Last edited by jackolover; 11-21-2016 at 08:44 PM.

  9. #69
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    Say what you will about Geoff Johns over at DC, at least he doesn't ignore previously established continuity and character developments feel organic. The Rebirth initiative has legacy as a huge focus. Bendis will ignore character continuity in favor of whats shiny and big at Marvel, like heavily promoting Captain Marvel because her movie is coming out in a few years. Never mind the fact that the material promoting her is actually her character assassination. I won't deny he is a good writer, but mainly when he's in his comfort zone. The problem is that events like Civil War II are outside what I perceive to be his comfort zone, and as a result has little of substance to say. I'll happily read Ultimate Spider-Man, but want nothing more than to see the back of Civil War II (one of two dud summer event comics, the other being Supremacy of the Cybermen).

    In six issues there have been more problems caused than solved by the presence of someone predicting the future. As far as the Ulysses plot has progressed, we know his mind is profiling likely events rather than actually seeing the future and that his terrigenesis hasn't yet concluded. That's it. The superhero community is fractured between Tony's side and Carol's side, with Carol being an idiot despite the marketing favoring her side. Banner is dead (I guess since his disappearance sub-plot in Totally Awesome Hulk had been wrapped up there needed to be a reason for him to not be around) and Miles is under intense scrutiny. The only good thing that can be salvaged is that there's more development on the Hydra!Cap thread.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    I assumed it meant he would be able to dodge any teleporting attempt to nab him, like, for example, if they sent Nighcrawler to physically grab him.

    I don't agree with the assumption, however, that ANY teleporting (Illyana summoning a disc, Strange using a spell, etc) would be unsuccessful because he gets spider chills up his spine.
    Maybe SHIELD teleporters are really precise like Star Trek ones, amd he could roll out of the field as he felt it?

    Is this still the big event of the summer? Because there's a wind chill of 35 degrees outside my window and the book doesnt come out for two more days.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmasta View Post
    In six issues there have been more problems caused than solved by the presence of someone predicting the future. As far as the Ulysses plot has progressed, we know his mind is profiling likely events rather than actually seeing the future and that his terrigenesis hasn't yet concluded. That's it. The superhero community is fractured between Tony's side and Carol's side, with Carol being an idiot despite the marketing favoring her side. Banner is dead (I guess since his disappearance sub-plot in Totally Awesome Hulk had been wrapped up there needed to be a reason for him to not be around) and Miles is under intense scrutiny. The only good thing that can be salvaged is that there's more development on the Hydra!Cap thread.
    At the beginning, I was really really excited about Marvel's intention to use CWII to do a social commentary on the profiling problems of today.
    But as you mentioned, with each subsequent issue, Ulysses just kept adding more and more problems to the pile without letting us catch our breath.

    1. Banner is dead, and this still hasn't sunk in properly for me yet. (To be fair there were a ton of tie-in issues dealing with the aftermath, but personally I still find it ridiculous)
    2. Then suddenly there's a lady with a dangerous suitcase, and everyone is fighting over her and the Triskellion gets trashed and the Ultimates get screwed over.
    3. And now WHOA, Miles is gonna kill Cap! And Ulysses is exploring a career change to work in the Japanese tentacle porn industry.

    WTF man. Slow down already.

    I think if they had introduced Ulysses as a Nuhuman in Uncanny Avengers/Uncanny Inhumans/Inhumanity and slowly built up his character over the course of the last year+, all of this would feel a lot more organic and not so forced.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by IncredibleSlimeThing View Post
    At the beginning, I was really really excited about Marvel's intention to use CWII to do a social commentary on the profiling problems of today.
    But as you mentioned, with each subsequent issue, Ulysses just kept adding more and more problems to the pile without letting us catch our breath.

    1. Banner is dead, and this still hasn't sunk in properly for me yet. (To be fair there were a ton of tie-in issues dealing with the aftermath, but personally I still find it ridiculous)
    2. Then suddenly there's a lady with a dangerous suitcase, and everyone is fighting over her and the Triskellion gets trashed and the Ultimates get screwed over.
    3. And now WHOA, Miles is gonna kill Cap! And Ulysses is exploring a career change to work in the Japanese tentacle porn industry.

    WTF man. Slow down already.

    I think if they had introduced Ulysses as a Nuhuman in Uncanny Avengers/Uncanny Inhumans/Inhumanity and slowly built up his character over the course of the last year+, all of this would feel a lot more organic and not so forced.
    Like you say, this could have been a social commentary. trump has been talking about profiling voters, so the topic of profiling, which is very present in CWII, is highly topical. However Bendis has gone for all flash leaving the co-opted ongoing titles to deal with the substance.

    The tactic of wham after wham does play into my theory that Ulysses is being used a Trojan Horse as part of a divide and conquer tactic against the superhero community on Earth. The predictions coming thick and fast doesn't give anyone much time to think about their response, so they react instinctively and in conflict with the ideals of the other side of the Civil War. Everyone is too busy reacting to the what to think about the why, the possible motive. If there is no agency behind the visions, then it's awfully coincidental that a number of significant events are taking placing in a short amount of time. Both Hulk and Cap dead in separate circumstances? Even in the comic book world that's unusual.

    There is some agency using Ulysses, and his gradual transformation into a Japanese porn star is an affect of this agency, perhaps so different from human or Inhuman that its true form is becoming manifest. Projecting the visions was an eventual development after all. It could be linked to Thanos, to trigger events and set Carol down the fanatical path of trying to change events no matter how ill-advised it may be, and ironically bringing those exact events about. That's my theory anyway.

    I like your idea of Ulysses being introduced as a background character before CWII, rather than being the convenient subject for terrigenesis at the start of the event. He could have been written as a perceptive and observant person, foreshadowing his ability to predict likely future events.

    Unfortunately it looks like we're headed to an ending like AvX, where a conflict between the Avengers vs X-Men turned into everyone vs Phoenix Force, with what Ulysses is becoming being the Phoenix Force in this situation. It has the unfortunate effect of brushing the reasons for the difference of opinion between the two factions under the carpet, rendering the whole exercise a waste of time.

  13. #73
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    I like the idea of Ulisses becoming a Japanese porn star. I'm more insterested in seeing his training with Karnak now.

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