Death of X #4 Preview

[Xelossik]

dragonmp93 :

She was on Wolverine's side, and that's worse because the Avengers choose to listen to Wolverine instead of her.

both sides failed with Rachel. They should use her better

So a Karate-Kid-bingewatch on Netflix should make Teen Jean Phoenix-ready as well, isnt it ?.

i hope not. But if I will read a story where this will be enough? I will think that it is enough.

[anyajenkins]

And riding a pet dragon. I think the dragon was the key...

[Mike_Murdock]

Yeah that quicksilver story, the terrigens almost kill abyss,fatale and reaper but they had to run to hell in order to undergo extreme magical treatment to not blow up in pieces... You could call it an isolated incident (I'm sure you will) but it's one of the few incidents of direct exposure of mutants to terrigen pre terrigen Holocaust that showed that the mists or crystals could damage mutants... And I think it's black bolt responsibility as a king to know or try to anticipate the consequences of his actions specially if they're gonna have a global scale

OK, it is a story I was missing (although it followed the logic of Son of M). I've commented on this issue before. The issue with Terrigen previously is it was hyperpowering people (both mutants and non-mutants alike) and creating disastrous results. This can be seen in Son of M and Silent War. However, the symptoms were never the M-Pox like we're seeing now. It's like saying "water is dangerous because people drown in it" and, if water suddenly starts giving cancer going "See, you already knew water was dangerous). The biggest issue you run into is something happened to the Terrigen to no longer hyperpower regular humans (or mutants) when the T-Bomb went off. I've argued before it's due to the fact that it's diluted in a big cloud. However, it appears that the change in the composition that removed the dangers of creating unstable powers also created this current toxicity.

[somacula]

OK, it is a story I was missing (although it followed the logic of Son of M). I've commented on this issue before. The issue with Terrigen previously is it was hyperpowering people (both mutants and non-mutants alike) and creating disastrous results. This can be seen in Son of M and Silent War. However, the symptoms were never the M-Pox like we're seeing now. It's like saying "water is dangerous because people drown in it" and, if water suddenly starts giving cancer going "See, you already knew water was dangerous). The biggest issue you run into is something happened to the Terrigen to no longer hyperpower regular humans (or mutants) when the T-Bomb went off. I've argued before it's due to the fact that it's diluted in a big cloud. However, it appears that the change in the composition that removed the dangers of creating unstable powers also created this current toxicity.

Rethoric again, we've got millions of cases of exposure to water that aren't toxic everyday unless there's an accident or the person deliberately kills himself or if there are toxic substances in the water that the country always have the decency to inform vs the only cases of terrigen exposure to mutants that were lethal, with terrigen there weren't enough tests to determine how a massive exposure to mutants would be non lethal, they simply picked a different poison and mutants payed the consequences..

Don't try to bend the facts with analogies, terrigen was proved lethal at high concentrations to mutant and with they cloud they hoped it wouldn't reach the lethal dosage, too bad it did and worse, sterilized and killed millions... And I'm not even gonna take on account the lack of consideration for long term exposure to terrigens since inhumans don't even have the ability to remove it from the atmosphere ! But I guess inhumans logic is toss around blame in a circle or use rethoric to hide and protect those who have responsibility on the death of millions...

I'm sure if Cyclops did the same everyone would be jumping on him and call him Hitler

[useridgoeshere]

Wow, I have to take it all back. They really have made a mini where the inhumans are 100% villains and mutants are 100% heroes. I am surprised.

[dragonmp93]

And riding a pet dragon. I think the dragon was the key...

I wonder if Lockhead counts; or does it need to be big enough to be rideable ?.

[Likewater]

I wonder if Lockhead counts; or does it need to be big enough to be rideable ?.

Kitty Prides new codename?


Kahleesi

[DDM]

The effect on the mutants was an unforeseen consequence, where as the potential consequences of the phoenix were completely foreseen and the crux of that entire conflict.

It's the difference between, negligence and negligent homicide (and reckless endangerment of everyone on the planet.)

Black Bolts crime was against other inhumans, he knew he was killing some of them when blew up Attilan, and released the cloud.

Insufficient? I'm sure many would agree, but he was king at the time, and no sane nation would press the issue, of the punishment of the monarch of the nation of super humans, who can shatter moons with a word.

Er, both these "cases" would be negligent homicide. You can argue intent but expolding a bomb with obvious direct planetary consequences would be a tough one for most juries. We have plenty of precedent for the negative impact of terrigen on mutants as well (Son of M, X-Factor), so trying to argue Blackagar couldn't have foreseen any negative impact on mutants is a pretty flimsy position anyway.

Of course this also sidesteps the actual results of each incident. People definitely died and were injured as a direct result of Scott's actions in AVX, but we don't have an exact count and there was no specific targeted group either. In DOX though you can argue a genocidal and ongoing crime that's a direct result of Blackagar's actions. The Phoenix was stopped and Cyclops was punished and targeted by the US government for his involvement, the Terrigen Cloud however remains completely unrestrained, is still taking and destroying lives, and Black Bolt remains completely untouched by any of this planet's governments despite being entirely responsible for unleashing this alien threat on it. Where's the justice in that?

[somacula]

Er, both these "cases" would be negligent homicide. You can argue intent but expolding a bomb with obvious direct planetary consequences would be a tough one for most juries. We have plenty of precedent for the negative impact of terrigen on mutants as well (Son of M, X-Factor), so trying to argue Blackagar couldn't have foreseen any negative impact on mutants is a pretty flimsy position anyway.

Of course this also sidesteps the actual results of each incident. People definitely died and were injured as a direct result of Scott's actions in AVX, but we don't have an exact count and there was no specific targeted group either. In DOX though you can argue a genocidal and ongoing crime that's a direct result of Blackagar's actions. The Phoenix was stopped and Cyclops was punished and targeted by the US government for his involvement, the Terrigen Cloud however remains completely unrestrained, is still taking and destroying lives, and Black Bolt remains completely untouched by any of this planet's governments despite being entirely responsible for unleashing this alien threat on it. Where's the justice in that?

And don't forget cyclops was under control of the dark phoenix

[redrunner97]

Wow, I have to take it all back. They really have made a mini where the inhumans are 100% villains and mutants are 100% heroes. I am surprised.

Why are you surprised? To mutants, the Inhumans are the bad guys in this story. The reverse can be said if you read the Inhumans books (albeit to a lesser extent, because the threat Inhumans pose to mutants--the continuation of the T-cloud--is great and imminent, but the threat mutants pose against Inhumans--the destruction of the T-cloud--is not an active situation yet,). This is a more complex story than it's being given credit for, even if it is still not a particularly good or well written one, IMO.

Plus, the Inhumans aren't superheroes (or villains, or anti-heroes). That's not their thing. They're flawed. They don't always make the right calls, and they aren't obligated to rectify things. They've never been portrayed that way. Thinking of them as a superhero team doesn't do justice to their side of things, honestly.

___________________

As far as guilt or blame goes, I feel like it all comes down to intent.

Black Bolt detonated the T-bomb with the intention of stopping Thanos from destroying Attilan, killing all Inhumans, and then cause further on Earth (to humans and mutants alike). That's noble and understandable, right? He sacrificed his empire, lost the throne, destroyed virtually the entire supply of Terrigen, and risked the life of himself and his people to stop the Mad Titan.

Black Bolt didn't intend on any of the adverse affects to occur. He didn't intend on the terrigen not adapting to the planet's atmospher. He didn't intend on the mist bonding, creating a pair of roaming cloud that would traverse the planet for years. He didn't intend on that cloud to devastate the mutant population. He didn't intend on hidden human-Inhuman hybrids on Earth having weak genes that couldn't survive terrigenesis. He didn't intend on anything (including, I'd argue, the mists affecting virtually ANYONE on Earth at all in either a positive or negative way, since mutants reaction to terrigen has been reconned a thousand times and NuHumans weren't even known to exist or be widespread at the time--although that last point is debatable, but since Black Bolt can't speak for himself, we don't truly know what his overarching plan may have been). How could Black Bolt have possibly predicted this domino effect coming out of one reasonably good decision that was hastily made in a time of panic, stress, and crisis??

My point is, Blackagar made a last-minute decision working with the best information and plan of attack he had to deal with an imminent threat, which was Thanos. If he wouldn't have detonated the T-bomb, then Thanos could have killed even more mutants (all of them, potentially) than the T-cloud has. The fact that his action were also defensive of both humans and mutants has to factor in somewhere right?


And also, I feel like someone needs to address how Inhumans have reacted to this complicated situation. So far, they have:
- Put some of their most intelligent minds (Iso) on the case to help mutants/Inhuman interests by rectifying the bomb. (Uncanny Inhumans #1)
- Allowed mutants (Beast, Frenz) access to their superior tech and labs to find an M-pox cure or try to salvage the terrigen within the cloud somehow. (Uncanny Inhumans #1)
- Actively search for and rescue mutant refugees who were in the path of the T-cloud. (All-New Inhumans #11)
- Personally given medical treatment and refuge to mutants (Hellion, others) who were already affected by the T-cloud. (Uncanny Avengers #6 / All-New Inhumans #11).
- Be scolded by mutants (All-New Inhumans #11).
- Be told-off by Inhumans (Uncanny Avengers #6).
- Seen Black Bolt step down as King, at Medusa's insistence, as a direct result/consequence/cause of his actions by detonating the T-bomb.(Inhuman #12)
- Seen Black Bolt and Medusa brawl and then separate over the events that followed the T-bomb. (Inhuman #2)
- The Royal family dealing with every other non-mutant related situations happening in their massive world of millions of Inhumans and NuHumans. (in like every single issue of every Inhumans book).

I'm not saying the Royals or Black Bolt (or Maximus even) are completely innocent and shouldn't be criticized. The Royals have definitely not been as outwardly compassionate and understanding as they should've been... But it's not like the Inhumans are ignoring or not sympathizing with mutants. They have been shown doing just about everything in their power to help mutants----except one thing: destroy the cloud, which would effectively end Inhuman society forever (and as Royals, it should come as no surprise that they're unwilling to jeopardize their own people over ANY others; regardless of the morals and regardless of the fact that the X-Men would likely lay down and die for the safety of most Inhumans if they were given the choice. Contrary to recent belief: the Inhumans and mutants aren't the same)!

I don't get why it's so hard to see the Inhumans characters' point of view in this... the mutant reaction, IMO, is justified just as much as the Inhumans' own. Mutants are being forced to take up arms now, because it's all they can do at this point. If the situation were reversed, I think Inhumans would do the same--regardless of the fact that mutants might not (which is conjecture, but whatever).

Lastly, I'm not playing teams at this just because I consider myself an Inhumans fan. I'm also an X-fan and I happen to read BOTH franchises' books, and I'm getting the complete story. I could just as easily say some of you guys are only on the defensive because of bias against Inhumans and for mutants too, couldn't I? But I don't, because that doesn't add anything to strengthen either "side"'s argument or debate.

[somacula]

Why are you surprised? To mutants, the Inhumans are the bad guys in this story. The reverse can be said if you read the Inhumans books (albeit to a lesser extent, because the threat Inhumans pose to mutants--the continuation of the T-cloud--is great and imminent, but the threat mutants pose against Inhumans--the destruction of the T-cloud--is not an active situation yet,). This is a more complex story than it's being given credit for, even if it is still not a particularly good or well written one, IMO.

Plus, the Inhumans aren't superheroes (or villains, or anti-heroes). That's not their thing. They're flawed. They don't always make the right calls, and they aren't obligated to rectify things. They've never been portrayed that way. Thinking of them as a superhero team doesn't do justice to their side of things, honestly.

___________________

As far as guilt or blame goes, I feel like it all comes down to intent.

Black Bolt detonated the T-bomb with the intention of stopping Thanos from destroying Attilan, killing all Inhumans, and then cause further on Earth (to humans and mutants alike). That's noble and understandable, right? He sacrificed his empire, lost the throne, destroyed virtually the entire supply of Terrigen, and risked the life of himself and his people to stop the Mad Titan.

Black Bolt didn't intend on any of the adverse affects to occur. He didn't intend on the terrigen not adapting to the planet's atmospher. He didn't intend on the mist bonding, creating a pair of roaming cloud that would traverse the planet for years. He didn't intend on that cloud to devastate the mutant population. He didn't intend on hidden human-Inhuman hybrids on Earth having weak genes that couldn't survive terrigenesis. He didn't intend on anything (including, I'd argue, the mists affecting virtually ANYONE on Earth at all in either a positive or negative way, since mutants reaction to terrigen has been reconned a thousand times and NuHumans weren't even known to exist or be widespread at the time--although that last point is debatable, but since Black Bolt can't speak for himself, we don't truly know what his overarching plan may have been). How could Black Bolt have possibly predicted this domino effect coming out of one reasonably good decision that was hastily made in a time of panic, stress, and crisis??

My point is, Blackagar made a last-minute decision working with the best information and plan of attack he had to deal with an imminent threat, which was Thanos. If he wouldn't have detonated the T-bomb, then Thanos could have killed even more mutants (all of them, potentially) than the T-cloud has. The fact that his action were also defensive of both humans and mutants has to factor in somewhere right?


And also, I feel like someone needs to address how Inhumans have reacted to this complicated situation. So far, they have:
- Put some of their most intelligent minds (Iso) on the case to help mutants/Inhuman interests by rectifying the bomb. (Uncanny Inhumans #1)
- Allowed mutants (Beast, Frenz) access to their superior tech and labs to find an M-pox cure or try to salvage the terrigen within the cloud somehow. (Uncanny Inhumans #1)
- Actively search for and rescue mutant refugees who were in the path of the T-cloud. (All-New Inhumans #11)
- Personally given medical treatment and refuge to mutants (Hellion, others) who were already affected by the T-cloud. (Uncanny Avengers #6 / All-New Inhumans #11).
- Be scolded by mutants (All-New Inhumans #11).
- Be told-off by Inhumans (Uncanny Avengers #6).
- Seen Black Bolt step down as King, at Medusa's insistence, as a direct result/consequence/cause of his actions by detonating the T-bomb.(Inhuman #12)
- Seen Black Bolt and Medusa brawl and then separate over the events that followed the T-bomb. (Inhuman #2)
- The Royal family dealing with every other non-mutant related situations happening in their massive world of millions of Inhumans and NuHumans. (in like every single issue of every Inhumans book).

I'm not saying the Royals or Black Bolt (or Maximus even) are completely innocent and shouldn't be criticized. The Royals have definitely not been as outwardly compassionate and understanding as they should've been... But it's not like the Inhumans are ignoring or not sympathizing with mutants. They have been shown doing just about everything in their power to help mutants----except one thing: destroy the cloud, which would effectively end Inhuman society forever (and as Royals, it should come as no surprise that they're unwilling to jeopardize their own people over ANY others; regardless of the morals and regardless of the fact that the X-Men would likely lay down and die for the safety of most Inhumans if they were given the choice. Contrary to recent belief: the Inhumans and mutants aren't the same)!

I don't get why it's so hard to see the Inhumans characters' point of view in this... the mutant reaction, IMO, is justified just as much as the Inhumans' own. Mutants are being forced to take up arms now, because it's all they can do at this point. If the situation were reversed, I think Inhumans would do the same--regardless of the fact that mutants might not (which is conjecture, but whatever).

Lastly, I'm not playing teams at this just because I consider myself an Inhumans fan. I'm also an X-fan and I happen to read BOTH franchises' books, and I'm getting the complete story. I could just as easily say some of you guys are only on the defensive because of bias against Inhumans and for mutants too, couldn't I? But I don't, because that doesn't add anything to strengthen either "side"'s argument or debate.

I had already written you a very detailed post countering most of your arguments specially the one stating that the terrigen bomb was necessary, you have chosen to ignore it deliberately and live in a canon were
-The terrigen bomb is necessary because otherwise your whole argument would fall apart and you'd be forced to admit that Black Bolt could've avoided the terrigen bomb and prevented mutants from dying
-There's no evidence of mutants dying by terrigen, because there's evidence and you've chosen to deliberately ignore it

I know you like the inhumans and X men, no problem with that... But ignore facts and use rethoric because the facts don't suit your narrative of the innocence of Inhumans... And you know why I say inhumans and not black bolt? Because those books are named Uncanny inhumans and all new Inhumans not inhuman royal family or stuff like that, they've chosen to be called that way and pretend to represent their whole race... Unlike X men that are only a non representative group of mutants... So if you wanna drop rethoric and argue with cold hard facts I will too, But if you wanna use rethoric I'll play at that level too

[Thor-Ul]

Ismust beaddded thanBlack Bolt had knowledge of the terrigen mist could be toxic for mutants. He saw in first line how reacted several mutants to the mist exposition.He was there when Unus died. However, it's must add they were depowered mutants, but still, Black Bolt should had anticipated than mutant population could be affected in someway.And even if he doesn't know, he still is responsable for the damage done.
Man, Black Bolt of earth-X was more consecuent than 616 Black Bolt.

[redrunner97]

-The terrigen bomb is necessary because otherwise your whole argument would fall apart and you'd be forced to admit that Black Bolt could've avoided the terrigen bomb and prevented mutants from dying

It's hard to argue this, not because it's all that solid but because it requires a few leaps in logic. The T-bomb itself isn't responsible for mutant deaths, the cloud is. The cloud was formed in the aftermath of the bomb. Black Bolt didn't choose to unleash a cloud, he chose to weaponize terrigen to stop Thanos. Could he have done ANYTHING else? Yeah. He could have let Thanos destroy Attilan and then move to Earth and kill mutants and humans alike. Or he could have screamed and blew up the entire planet, killing everyone in the process. He did what he thought was best working off of the best knowledge he had at the time. Suggesting he was intentionally acted recklessly borders on absurd.

-There's no evidence of mutants dying by terrigen, because there's evidence and you've chosen to deliberately ignore it

Mutants have died. No one is ignoring that. You're intentionally misrepresenting my argument in an attempt to strengthen your own.

The vast majority of mutant deaths that I have noted were of mutants who were nameless, faceless, non-existent characters that weren't seen, only heard. They were mentioned in passing, and never specifically. They existed only to serve the purpose of "unnamed dead mutant #0214" to motive the actual characters into action against the cloud. I don't mean "they were obscure characters from years ago", I'm talking they don't even exist and have never appeared in a frame of any comic ever. Not only are most known mutants still alive right now, several even have MULTIPLE versions of themselves running around! This is not a critique of the mutant perspective and motivation going into IvX; It's a critique of the writing for not establishing better motives without resorting to artificial tension.

But ignore facts and use rethoric because the facts don't suit your narrative of the innocence of Inhumans...

I didn't say anyone was innocent. Black Bolt (and Maximus) caused this. But that doesn't mean Black Bolt is to blame for every domino as a result of a result of a result f his actions. He's not divine. Other factors played into the creation of the T-bomb that went beyond Black Bolt's control.

Why not blame Thanos for showing up in Attilan in the first place? If he never would have done that, Black Bolt would probably be on the moon right now. That's barely beyond the level of semantic we're playing at right now.

Black Bolt should had anticipated than mutant population could be affected in someway.And even if he doesn't know, he still is responsable for the damage done.

But why should he have anticipated that? There is NO PRECEDENT for anything like the T-cloud before.

It sounds like what you guys are suggesting is that Black Bolt should have magically seen the future, which isn't one of his powers.

[somacula]

It's hard to argue this, not because it's all that solid but because it requires a few leaps in logic. The T-bomb itself isn't responsible for mutant deaths, the cloud is. The cloud was formed in the aftermath of the bomb. Black Bolt didn't choose to unleash a cloud, he chose to weaponize terrigen to stop Thanos. Could he have done ANYTHING else? Yeah. He could have let Thanos destroy Attilan and then move to Earth and kill mutants and humans alike. Or he could have screamed and blew up the entire planet, killing everyone in the process. He did what he thought was best working off of the best knowledge he had at the time. Suggesting he was intentionally acted recklessly borders on absurd.




Mutants have died. No one is ignoring that. You're intentionally misrepresenting my argument in an attempt to strengthen your own.

The vast majority of mutant deaths that I have noted were of mutants who were nameless, faceless, non-existent characters that weren't seen, only heard. They were mentioned in passing, and never specifically. They existed only to serve the purpose of "unnamed dead mutant #0214" to motive the actual characters into action against the cloud. I don't mean "they were obscure characters from years ago", I'm talking they don't even exist and have never appeared in a frame of any comic ever. Not only are most known mutants still alive right now, several even have MULTIPLE versions of themselves running around! This is not a critique of the mutant perspective and motivation going into IvX; It's a critique of the writing for not establishing better motives without resorting to artificial tension.



I didn't say anyone was innocent. Black Bolt (and Maximus) caused this. But that doesn't mean Black Bolt is to blame for every domino as a result of a result of a result f his actions. He's not divine. Other factors played into the creation of the T-bomb that went beyond Black Bolt's control.

Why not blame Thanos for showing up in Attilan in the first place? If he never would have done that, Black Bolt would probably be on the moon right now. That's barely beyond the level of semantic we're playing at right now.



But why should he have anticipated that? There is NO PRECEDENT for anything like the T-cloud before.

It sounds like what you guys are suggesting is that Black Bolt should have magically seen the future, which isn't one of his powers.

Man, there's precedent for mutants dying to terrigen exposition, or suffering horrible effects

And terrigen did jackshit to Thanos, it's Thane that took him down (for 8 issues) and he'd simply exposed Thane alone to terrigen and ask him to stop terrigen with amber instead of releasing a huge bomb...

And did you just wrote that the bomb is not the cause of the mists? It's like the principle of cause effect does not apply in that case because... ?

And somehow black bolt shouldn't be held accountable for the consequences of the bomb he released because he didn't knew the side effects? Is that inhumans law?

And instead of detonating a bomb he could've called for help to Cyclops, Blue marvel, x men, etc... You know a earth full of heroes against Thanos with no infinity gauntlet, they'd stalled him until the big guns came... What big guns? Storm could've defeated Thanos, she's a silver surfer tier character

[CoCoBandz]

This is a key point. BB was always going to detonate it, it's just that Thanos arriving ended up making him speed up the process.

It's a key point that's ignored a lot.