Is MCU Captain America a better Superman character then the WB/DC Superman?

[Francisco]

Clark doesn't need to work at the daily planet to help people. He went there to be close to Lois. He could literally stay at the farm with his mom watching the news all day long. Hell, he saved that girl in Mexico because he watched the whole thing in the news.

[misslane]

Clark doesn't need to work at the daily planet to help people. He went there to be close to Lois. He could literally stay at the farm with his mom watching the news all day long. Hell, he saved that girl in Mexico because he watched the whole thing in the news.

Clark did not choose to work at the DP to be close to Lois. That is an interpretation is explicitly contradicted by Clark himself who never admits that Lois was the deciding factor for his decision to become a journalist at the Daily Planet. As he explains to his mother, "I gotta find a job where I can keep my ear to the ground. Where people won't look twice when I want to go somewhere dangerous and start asking questions." The practical concerns come first for Clark; Lois working at the DP just gives Clark's career choice a specific focus and location. Moreover, throughout BvS, we see that Clark has genuine interest and passion for the power of the press, and we also see that working at the DP isn't a guarantee of being close to Lois because, in typical Lois fashion, she's hardly ever there herself.

[manduck37]

In BvS, Clark actually has a very good reason for being a reporter that he states directly to Perry. Clark tells Perry that when an article is written about someone or something, it gives them power. So in choosing what to write about, they choose what is important. In essence, we see that Clark is a writer to give power and voice to those that need it. He's choosing to use his writing to be empowering. It has absolutely nothing to do with Lois or anyone else. It was one of those often overlooked scenes in the movie that was, IMO, really great.

[The Kid]

No question. MCU Captain America is brave, charismatic, and moral. He fights to do the right thing regardless of how it is perceived by others whether that is the US government or Tony Stark. The MCU has its flaws but their portrayal of Cap is not one of them. He's an A-List character because of his desire to fight for what is right even when all odds are against him. His slow change from government agent to rogue soldier without him actually changing his beliefs is why audiences love Cap

That's what Superman should be. Fighting for the right thing because it's the right thing to do and doing this with confidence and assertiveness. Some people say that these movies are about Superman slowly becoming the one from the comics. Tbf it should not take 3 flipping movies for that kind of character arc. There are plenty of stories you can make with a fully realized Superman. Batman didn't take 3 movies to start becoming Batman in the Nolan movies. He reached that state at the end of Begins and was dealing with different character arcs in the sequels. Superman in the movies is boring, dull, lifeless, and seems to hate being a superhero. Part of that is Snyder is just a trash director and part of that is the writing is making him become a hero at a snail's pace

[misslane]

No question. MCU Captain America is brave, charismatic, and moral. He fights to do the right thing regardless of how it is perceived by others whether that is the US government or Tony Stark. The MCU has its flaws but their portrayal of Cap is not one of them. He's an A-List character because of his desire to fight for what is right even when all odds are against him. His slow change from government agent to rogue soldier without him actually changing his beliefs is why audiences love Cap

I love Steve, but I don't find him to be at all charismatic. And, despite appreciating Cap's moral code and his overall arc in the MCU, when it is so tied to his bond with Bucky, sometimes the larger heroic and selfless motives get a little lost. Captain America is my favorite Avenger and my favorite MCU character (I am not a huge fan of the MCU at all), but I still struggle to engage with him as a character post-origin story. I can't put my finger on what it is, but there's something more remote and less vulnerable about him. Nothing he does really surprises me or challenges me as a viewer. So my love for the character feels more rote or distant. The character and the ideas he engages are no longer compelling, so even if Cap is changing, he still feels static to me.

That's what Superman should be. Fighting for the right thing because it's the right thing to do and doing this with confidence and assertiveness. Some people say that these movies are about Superman slowly becoming the one from the comics. Tbf it should not take 3 flipping movies for that kind of character arc. There are plenty of stories you can make with a fully realized Superman. Batman didn't take 3 movies to start becoming Batman in the Nolan movies. He reached that state at the end of Begins and was dealing with different character arcs in the sequels. Superman in the movies is boring, dull, lifeless, and seems to hate being a superhero. Part of that is Snyder is just a trash director and part of that is the writing is making him become a hero at a snail's pace

When has DCCU not fought to do the right thing because it was the right thing? The only time Clark wavers on that question is when it very much seems like doing the right thing no longer results in positive results. Attending Finch's hearings, for example, was Superman fighting for his freedom to continue to do the right thing, and his efforts to engage in conversation were only met with violence and tragedy. It truly appears to him that Superman is not functioning as a symbol of hope because every positive action, no matter how well-intentioned, has no net positive effect. This is a dilemma Steve Rogers does not contend with as Captain America. From the beginning, his heroism is sanctioned and supported by the government and the public. As a human being with enhanced abilities, Captain America does not represent an existential threat to humanity either as a physical danger or a spiritual one. Steve is in a difficult position as a soldier whose battles and conflicts certainly are extraordinary, but he will never face the sort of burdens and responsibilities that Superman must face. He has the privilege of being human while Superman is an "other."

Similarly, Steve is more able to embrace his role as Captain America with confidence and assertiveness because the serum is a means through which the bullied and rejected Steve has his wishes granted. Clark, like Steve, was bullied, but he was bullied for being different. Clark's entire life was about figuring out how to be himself without scaring people. His whole identity was wrapped up in a secret and the burden of responsibility. Becoming Superman is not an easy choice for Clark the way becoming a super soldier is for Steve. Superman has to apply his power more carefully, and his alien nature is one that changes the world. Nevertheless, when given the choice to do the right thing or not do the right thing, Clark chooses the right thing. He stands up for the little guy, and he stands up for himself. From the time Superman turns himself over to Swanwick and beyond, he displays confidence and assertiveness. His interview with Lois that shifts into a confrontation with Swanwick exemplifies this behavior.

Later, in BvS, Clark continues to stand up for himself and his ideals. After the African incident, it is Clark who encourages Lois to not dwell on the controversy. He doesn't care what people think. Clark's response to the debate about Superman is to give humanity a chance to have this conversation without inserting himself into the middle of it. His role will be to lead by example. He'll help answer their questions by continuing to do what he's here to do: help people. Clark also decides to explore his own questions about justice and power through his investigation into The Batman. The way Clark pursues this story is a perfect example of him "fighting for the right thing because it's the right thing to do" with "confidence and assertiveness." This is clear both in how Clark stands up to Perry's cynical perspective of the "American conscience" and his confrontation with Bruce Wayne at the library fundraiser. Clark is confident that "the rest of the world doesn't share" Bruce's critical opinion of Superman.

The only time we see Superman waver in BvS is right before the Senate hearing when he speaks to his mother and after the bombing when he speaks to Lois and Jonathan. It is a low point precisely because doing the right thing with confidence and assertiveness seems only to make things worse. He cannot see a way forward for his symbol of hope. But it is only a temporary setback. Clark decides that being Superman is worth the nightmares, and he embraces his role as humanity's savior, even though they fear and hate him, with grace. Characterization like this is rich and full of life. It is anything but boring, in my opinion, because it speaks to so many important questions about good vs. evil, god vs. man, and humanity vs. the other. It interrogates the nature of justice and places value on communication and truth. Superman's struggle is both archetypal and mythic, and as such, it speaks to me on a macrocosmic and microcosmic level. Captain America, as a character, does not offer me anything close to as compelling as a viewer.

[Francisco]

The bottom line is that it doesn't look cool. Superman doesn't look cool in BvS while on MOS he has a few moments of coolness but overall He isn't cool or fun.

[misslane]

The bottom line is that it doesn't look cool. Superman doesn't look cool in BvS while on MOS he has a few moments of coolness but overall He isn't cool or fun.

I have no idea what this means. Responding to critics by choosing to focus on having some fun with your girlfriend at home looks cool. Standing up for the power of the press looks cool. Criticizing Batman to his face as Bruce Wayne when Bruce neither knows Clark is Superman or knows Clark knows he's Batman looks cool. Saving an exploding rocket and dragging a massive ship filled with survivors over the Arctic ice looks cool. Destroying sonic devices with a manhole cover looks cool. Watching Batman's face fall as his punches have no effect looks cool. Stopping Lex from getting hit by the fist of his abomination looks cool. Surviving a nuclear blast looks cool. Having a heat vision fight with Doomsday looks cool.

[Francisco]

I have no idea what this means. Responding to critics by choosing to focus on having some fun with your girlfriend at home looks cool. Standing up for the power of the press looks cool. Criticizing Batman to his face as Bruce Wayne when Bruce neither knows Clark is Superman or knows Clark knows he's Batman looks cool. Saving an exploding rocket and dragging a massive ship filled with survivors over the Arctic ice looks cool. Destroying sonic devices with a manhole cover looks cool. Watching Batman's face fall as his punches have no effect looks cool. Stopping Lex from getting hit by the fist of his abomination looks cool. Surviving a nuclear blast looks cool. Having a heat vision fight with Doomsday looks cool.

Not a single one of those moments was shown in a cool way. Because Superman wasn't present in them. He was nother there. They were talking about him but he was not there. Steve Rogers is present in every scene where he is shown. The same can't be said about Clark Kent. When Rogers takes down a quinjet all by himself just after kicking the collective butts of an elevator filled with Hydra agents just seconds before jumping off a building. All that was off the chain awesome and fun. Bruce talks smacked him and then beat his ass and almost killed him. He was turned into a supporting character in his own sequel. Steve was the star of his own movie.

[misslane]

Not a single one of those moments was shown in a cool way. Because Superman wasn't present in them. He was nother there. They were talking about him but he was not there. Steve Rogers is present in every scene where he is shown. The same can't be said about Clark Kent. When Rogers takes down a quinjet all by himself just after kicking the collective butts of an elevator filled with Hydra agents just seconds before jumping off a building. All that was off the chain awesome and fun. Bruce talks smacked him and then beat his ass and almost killed him. He was turned into a supporting character in his own sequel. Steve was the star of his own movie.

Superman/Clark was present in every scene I mentioned. There is nothing cool about Batman in this movie. Batman smack talking a man who apologizes and asks for help is not cool. Batman nearly killing Superman is not cool. Nothing about Batman's unchecked feverish rage is cool. It's interesting and compelling storytelling, but it's not cool.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Captain America: Civil War were Captain America movies. They were his own movies. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice was not a Superman movie. It wasn't his own movie. It was a shared title with neither Batman nor Superman as the star. You are comparing apples and oranges.

[Mr. Mastermind]

Superman/Clark was present in every scene I mentioned. There is nothing cool about Batman in this movie. Batman smack talking a man who apologizes and asks for help is not cool. Batman nearly killing Superman is not cool. Nothing about Batman's unchecked feverish rage is cool. It's interesting and compelling storytelling, but it's not cool.

It's the opposite. Ben Affleck has so much charisma that his Batman is instantly cool, but everything they try to do with Batman in the story is as dumb and uncompelling as it gets. Terrio seems to want to write a story about Batman being kinda sorta brutal (they have Lex be the one behind the brandings which is completely stupid) and being nicer at the end, but Snyder seems to love Batman blowing guys up and spattering their brains against the wall. It's just tonally confusing and bizarre storytelling.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Captain America: Civil War were Captain America movies. They were his own movies. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice was not a Superman movie. It wasn't his own movie. It was a shared title with neither Batman nor Superman as the star. You are comparing apples and oranges.

He's meant to co-star in it but Superman has less lines in the thing than Spider-Man does in Civil War. You know, the cameo (every Avenger got more lines in Civil War than Supes did in BvS)

[Prime]

Superman's characterization so far has been...pretty bad. MOS was tolerable. But holy sh*t was BVS horrible. Superman has been pretty much the most controversial figure in this universe. He hasn't been well "fun". I don't know what WB is trying to do, but I think they have hurt Superman more than they realized.

[SmokeMonster]

While there are some aspects of the MCU Cap I wish were present in the DCEU's Superman, overall, I'm glad Supes isn't like MCU Cap, who imo, has kinda been coming across as a self-righteous ass since the first Avengers movie.

Cap is so quick to tell people they're wrong instead of trying to understand their point of view and come to an understanding. Instead of leading by example, he complains and points at others' faults.
-Cap tries to bring down Tony, calling out how he's not selfless, even laughs at him, and he never gives Tony credit for proving him wrong in the end.
-"You should have left it in the ocean." Walks away. (That's an awfully dismissive view of scientific discovery, the very thing that gave Cap his powers, his shield, etc)
-When he's wrong, the movies never acknowledge it.

People give this Supes flack for not being sure enough of his himself, whereas I find Cap to be way too sure of himself.

[Chazro]

While certainly not perfect, the Superman shown in Supergirl is MUCH closer to being the Superman most people expect to see. And it goes beyond the fact that the show is more juvenile than the movies. Another problem is Cavill, he simply doesn't have the acting chops of Chris Evans or Christopher Reeve, so he has a harder time 'selling' it. But ultimately, it always boils down to the story- telling, the writing. Ultimately, the blame lies in the written- by- committee style that the movies reek of. It'll take a cinematic 'rebirth' for the words truth, justice, and the American way feel like Superman's again 'cause they certainly sound like they belong to Captain America right now.

[adkal]

I have no idea what this means. Responding to critics by choosing to focus on having some fun with your girlfriend at home looks cool. Standing up for the power of the press looks cool. Criticizing Batman to his face as Bruce Wayne when Bruce neither knows Clark is Superman or knows Clark knows he's Batman looks cool. Saving an exploding rocket and dragging a massive ship filled with survivors over the Arctic ice looks cool. Destroying sonic devices with a manhole cover looks cool. Watching Batman's face fall as his punches have no effect looks cool. Stopping Lex from getting hit by the fist of his abomination looks cool. Surviving a nuclear blast looks cool. Having a heat vision fight with Doomsday looks cool.

Not a single one of those moments was shown in a cool way. Because Superman wasn't present in them. He was nother there. They were talking about him but he was not there.

How was Superman not present when he:

- saved an exploding rocket
- dragged a massive ship over Arctic ice
- destroyed sonic devices with a manhole cover
- gave Batman a 'look' as Batman's punches to Superman's face stopped having an effect

??

Bruce talks smacked him and then beat his ass and almost killed him.

How can you not like the moment when Bruce realised his punches weren't doing squat and backed away, arm raised (WWF/WWE-style) pretty much (body language) saying 'oh fudge. Mercy. Please.'

He was turned into a supporting character in his own sequel. Steve was the star of his own movie.

I wanted him to talk more, definitely - especially at the Special Committee and after he rescues the girl from the fire - but he was still the center-point of the movie (it just wasn't done as well as it should have been).

- Batman was looking for 'The White Portuguese' because of Superman;
- Lex was arranging various things because of Superman;
- the Special Committee was held because of Superman;
- the debates on the television were because of Superman.

Not Batman.

Outside of Gotham, Batman was nothing in the movie - and for a guy who had been at it for 20-plus years, that kind of highlights how ineffectual this Batman actual was...

[Francisco]

He wasn't present because there was not build up or drama around those events. Superman saves the capsule and its occupants but we're never shown the human aspect of that rescue. Clark saving the workers at the oil rig fire was much more effective than any of his rescues in BvS.
Superman would have been present throughout all the movie if they have chosen to actually build the story around him and his idealism instead of Lex Luthor and his plottings. I'd say it again; Superman should have gotten involved in the Nairomi situation to save civilian lives not to save Lois's life. It would have been more interesting if he actually messed it up by following his idealism instead of a love interest. Lois could be part of the whole situation. She can be in Nairomi reporting on the civil war, Clark is at the daily planet offices. When suddenly it is reported that intense fire has broke in the streets of Nairomi with hundreds of casualties. Superman jets into action preventing thousands from being slaughtered. But the international community is not pleased. Does this alien believes itself above international law? Enter Lex Luthor and his machinations. You can tell the same story but painting Superman in a more positive, proactive, inspiring and likeable light. Then when he dies at the end fighting Doomsday (or anyone else) it is actually emotional.