Zero Year or Year One - What shall remain when the dust settles?

[bat39]

With all this talk of pre-Flashpoint continuity returning, its something that I couldn't help think about.

I personally believe this is one cases where New 52 canon will trump Pre-Flashpoint, for the following reasons-


1. Zero Year is Scott Snyder's baby, and Snyder's take on Batman very much continues to inform the DC Rebirth portrayal of the character. Tom King's work is pretty much a continuation of Snyder's run. The Zero Year event has even been referenced a few times since Rebirth began. Given that Batman was one of the few successful 'reboots' (rather, soft-boots) of the New 52 line, I can see Zero Year staying on that account.

2. Duke Thomas, a notable character in the current Batman universe, has his origins tied to Zero Year.

3. There are a lot of assorted contradictions between Year One and New 52 continuity in the Batman-line. For instance, Gordon's kids. There's no way James Jr. can be an infant during Batman's debut...even with an expanded timeline, its unlikely to go beyond 10 years. There's also the issue of Barbara Gordon, now firmly established as Gordon's daughter and not his adoptive daughter/niece who came to live with him AFTER Batman showed up.


Granted, an argument can be made in favor of preserving BOTH stories...which appears to be the goal of the Rebirth initiative in general as far as the two continuities go.

There are a few gaps in 'Zero Year', notably at the end of the 'Secret City' sub-section and before 'Dark City'. Some of the crucial scenes from Year One could be worked in there - like Batman invading the Mayor's mansion, the GCPD surrounding him in a tenement building that is then bombed etc. And I'd like to imagine Gordon still waited on that rooftop to tell Batman about the impending threat of the Joker (except he's now a Commissioner and not a Captain).

[Aahz]

2. Duke Thomas, a notable character in the current Batman universe, has his origins tied to Zero Year.

That could cause contradictions if the get the 10 years back.

3. There are a lot of assorted contradictions between Year One and New 52 continuity in the Batman-line. For instance, Gordon's kids. There's no way James Jr. can be an infant during Batman's debut...even with an expanded timeline, its unlikely to go beyond 10 years. There's also the issue of Barbara Gordon, now firmly established as Gordon's daughter and not his adoptive daughter/niece who came to live with him AFTER Batman showed up.

James Jr. made allready pre flashpoint no sense, if he was born in year one he could be at best around Tims age, and would be 12-13 years younger than Barbara which was clearly not the case in the flashbacks Black Mirror.

[The World]

Zero Year probably until Snyder leaves the line or DC and then it will probably get reworked into having happened after YO.

[Frontier]

Zero Year probably until Snyder leaves the line or DC and then it will probably get reworked into having happened after YO.

I think this is also the most likely outcome, for better or worse.

[brucekent12]

Definitely Snyder's story until he leaves Batman behind, unless the incoming writer can come up with a storyline to use Scott's stuff.

[Deffinition]

Tbh I prefer Zero Year to Year One so kinda hope that actually becomes continuity.

[Aahz]

2. Duke Thomas, a notable character in the current Batman universe, has his origins tied to Zero Year.

3. There are a lot of assorted contradictions between Year One and New 52 continuity in the Batman-line. For instance, Gordon's kids. There's no way James Jr. can be an infant during Batman's debut...even with an expanded timeline, its unlikely to go beyond 10 years. There's also the issue of Barbara Gordon, now firmly established as Gordon's daughter and not his adoptive daughter/niece who came to live with him AFTER Batman showed up.

But if you keep Zero Year as Origin, and go back to expanded Time line Dukes age makes also no sense.

[Batman Begins 2005]

Year One. I have it as the best Batman story ever.

[Restingvoice]

As of now according to King both Year One and Zero Year happened, specifically the fight between Bruce and Selina in Crime Alley, meeting Duke Thomas, and Riddler taking over Gotham City.

Since Selina knows Batman's secret identity almost immediately, the event on the boat where Batman nabbed Selina and the diamond also happened, The War of Jokes and Riddles happened before Dick was adopted and he's adopted as a child, but 10-year-old Duke who met Bruce in Zero Year is still 16 in the present day...

The timeline looks like it goes like this

Year One - the Crime Alley fight - Bruce became Batman
Zero Year - Riddler took over - Bruce met Duke when he was 6, not 10
The Boat - The Bat met The Cat and fell in love
Year One continued - Selina became Catwoman - Batman saved James Jr., not as a baby but a kid
Post Year One - Selina already became Catwoman and found out Batman's identity
The War of Jokes and Riddles
Dick Grayson was adopted at 10+ years old and became Robin

Fast forward 10 years, Dick is 20 something, James Jr. is 19 as per New 52, and Duke is 16

[Vakanai]

As of now according to King both Year One and Zero Year happened, specifically the fight between Bruce and Selina in Crime Alley, meeting Duke Thomas, and Riddler taking over Gotham City.

Since Selina knows Batman's secret identity almost immediately, the event on the boat where Batman nabbed Selina and the diamond also happened, The War of Jokes and Riddles happened before Dick was adopted and he's adopted as a child, but 10-year-old Duke who met Bruce in Zero Year is still 16 in the present day...

The timeline looks like it goes like this

Year One - the Crime Alley fight - Bruce became Batman
Zero Year - Riddler took over - Bruce met Duke when he was 6, not 10
The Boat - The Bat met The Cat and fell in love
Year One continued - Selina became Catwoman - Batman saved James Jr., not as a baby but a kid
Post Year One - Selina already became Catwoman and found out Batman's identity
The War of Jokes and Riddles
Dick Grayson was adopted at 10+ years old and became Robin

Fast forward 10 years, Dick is 20 something, James Jr. is 19 as per New 52, and Duke is 16

Where does The Long Halloween fit in with The War of Jokes and Riddles?
And even before King my head canon was trying to make Year One and Zero Year work together, so cool that kind of seems to be the main continuity for now.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Year One for sure, it's one of the greatest Batman stories of all time. Zero Year is forgettable.

[Restingvoice]

Where does The Long Halloween fit in with The War of Jokes and Riddles?
And even before King my head canon was trying to make Year One and Zero Year work together, so cool that kind of seems to be the main continuity for now.

What Long Halloween? ^^

I don't remember if any Rebirth issues mention it, but if you wanna include it, it has to be before The War since Two-Face's already there

[Aahz]

As of now according to King both Year One and Zero Year happened, specifically the fight between Bruce and Selina in Crime Alley, meeting Duke Thomas, and Riddler taking over Gotham City.

Since Selina knows Batman's secret identity almost immediately, the event on the boat where Batman nabbed Selina and the diamond also happened, The War of Jokes and Riddles happened before Dick was adopted and he's adopted as a child, but 10-year-old Duke who met Bruce in Zero Year is still 16 in the present day...

The timeline looks like it goes like this

Year One - the Crime Alley fight - Bruce became Batman
Zero Year - Riddler took over - Bruce met Duke when he was 6, not 10
The Boat - The Bat met The Cat and fell in love
Year One continued - Selina became Catwoman - Batman saved James Jr., not as a baby but a kid
Post Year One - Selina already became Catwoman and found out Batman's identity
The War of Jokes and Riddles
Dick Grayson was adopted at 10+ years old and became Robin

Fast forward 10 years, Dick is 20 something, James Jr. is 19 as per New 52, and Duke is 16

I don't think that 10 years is enough to make the time line work. Especally not if Dick starts agian at a young age as Robin.

Lets say you go with him loosing his parents at age 12, roughly a year after Bruce becomes Batman, then you would allready be in year 7 or 8 by the time he becomes Nightwing and Jason becomes Robin. Then you had still to compress the remaining Robin into youst 3 years.

If you want to keep all the Robins with their original starting ages in continuity, you need something like 15+ years.

[Restingvoice]

I don't think that 10 years is enough to make the time line work. Especally not if Dick starts agian at a young age as Robin.

Lets say you go with him loosing his parents at age 12, roughly a year after Bruce becomes Batman, then you would allready be in year 7 or 8 by the time he becomes Nightwing and Jason becomes Robin. Then you had still to compress the remaining Robin into youst 3 years.

If you want to keep all the Robins with their original starting ages in continuity, you need something like 15+ years.

Pretty much yeah. I'm not sure if the current timeline is 10. Rebirth started at 10 but I've seen people arguing that now it's 15. Especially with Astrid Arkham's origin, a 15-year timeline would accommodate her better.

By the way, I just found out from someone who uploaded a scan of Zero Hour timeline that in Post Crisis Dick was only Robin for 3 years, starting at Year 3 and became Nightwing at Year 6. Jason only has one year as usual and then followed directly by Tim, with Knightfall happening at Year 7 or 8. I thought they only started doing it in New 52 but they already compressed Dick's Robin timeline in Post Crisis. At least up to Zero Hour.