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  1. #16
    The Best There Is berserkerclaw's Avatar
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    Year one is better. I hope it reverts to that status
    Wolverine,Rogue,Gambit,Jubilee Jean Grey top 5 x-men Favorites

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berserkerclaw View Post
    Year one is better. I hope it reverts to that status
    I disagree. year One is very, very dated. Zero year is a lot more in tune with today's world, and tell a better tale of Batman's origins for me.

  3. #18
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez View Post
    Year One is a masterpiece and still looms large over Batman lore across all media - The dust already has started to settle on Zero Year; in the minds of most, it's a curious footnote at best. The concept of "canon" when it comes to DC just doesn't really apply right now like it did as little as six years ago. The simple fact is, for the most part, people don't care what DC's official version of events is. Sal Maroni will always be the guy who threw acid in Harvey Dent's face and Year One will always be the definitive Batman origin. Unless something insanely spectacular and superior comes along and blows it out of the water, which, heheh, that's not Zero Year.
    So well said. Yea, one consequence of the New 52 was that DC's official version started having a lot less weight. A lot of bigtime respected continuity chroniclers just stopped and DC has gone into too many zany and radical directions on some things and have turned so many off on official canon.
    Thank you AMericA for votinG for chAnge.

  4. #19
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    With all this talk of pre-Flashpoint continuity returning, its something that I couldn't help think about.

    I personally believe this is one cases where New 52 canon will trump Pre-Flashpoint, for the following reasons-

    1. Zero Year is Scott Snyder's baby, and Snyder's take on Batman very much continues to inform the DC Rebirth portrayal of the character. Tom King's work is pretty much a continuation of Snyder's run. The Zero Year event has even been referenced a few times since Rebirth began. Given that Batman was one of the few successful 'reboots' (rather, soft-boots) of the New 52 line, I can see Zero Year staying on that account.

    2. Duke Thomas, a notable character in the current Batman universe, has his origins tied to Zero Year.

    3. There are a lot of assorted contradictions between Year One and New 52 continuity in the Batman-line. For instance, Gordon's kids. There's no way James Jr. can be an infant during Batman's debut...even with an expanded timeline, its unlikely to go beyond 10 years. There's also the issue of Barbara Gordon, now firmly established as Gordon's daughter and not his adoptive daughter/niece who came to live with him AFTER Batman showed up.

    Granted, an argument can be made in favor of preserving BOTH stories...which appears to be the goal of the Rebirth initiative in general as far as the two continuities go.

    There are a few gaps in 'Zero Year', notably at the end of the 'Secret City' sub-section and before 'Dark City'. Some of the crucial scenes from Year One could be worked in there - like Batman invading the Mayor's mansion, the GCPD surrounding him in a tenement building that is then bombed etc. And I'd like to imagine Gordon still waited on that rooftop to tell Batman about the impending threat of the Joker (except he's now a Commissioner and not a Captain).
    Thread Necro!

    I'm very interested and amused with this OP, from the perspective of the middle of "I Am Suicide." Having reread Batman #11 (Bruce's letter to Selina), and Batman #33 (the ending of Zero Year), I'm deeply intrigued by several interesting parellels. Both contain revelations by Bruce about what he did in the past trying to cope with the death of his parents (nearly slitting his wrists in I Am Suicide, nearly destroying his brain in Zero Year) - but I think it's fundamentally different. Perhaps driven by that very comic, released just three days before the OP, there was an assumption that King was agreeing with Snyder that Batman represents a kind of "death" for Bruce - that he can't have any real future or growth (the argument I think Snyder makes in Zero Year and Superheavy - Batman #33 and #50). However, I think it's key that King articulated that idea for "who is Batman" very early in his run, and the overall trajectory (especially now) seems to be that King is going in a very, very different direction - that Bruce needs to grow out of that mindset of Batman as a death.

    It's also very interesting to me to look at the other assumptions of late 2016 three years later, in late 2019. Duke does have a solid title, but he's not really played the kind of part in the main Batman titles you might have expected given his appearance in King's run early on and All-Star Batman.

    King's own approach to Batman canon, as seen in #44, 69, and now 78-79, is that everything happened in some form or another. Which I kinda like. It's a very "Rebirth" approach (though Morrison tried a similar version of that, using "it was all drugs" to fit it into canon).
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    2. Duke Thomas, a notable character in the current Batman universe, has his origins tied to Zero Year.

    3. There are a lot of assorted contradictions between Year One and New 52 continuity in the Batman-line. For instance, Gordon's kids. There's no way James Jr. can be an infant during Batman's debut...even with an expanded timeline, its unlikely to go beyond 10 years. There's also the issue of Barbara Gordon, now firmly established as Gordon's daughter and not his adoptive daughter/niece who came to live with him AFTER Batman showed up.
    But if you keep Zero Year as Origin, and go back to expanded Time line Dukes age makes also no sense.

  6. #21

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    Year One. I have it as the best Batman story ever.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    As of now according to King both Year One and Zero Year happened, specifically the fight between Bruce and Selina in Crime Alley, meeting Duke Thomas, and Riddler taking over Gotham City.

    Since Selina knows Batman's secret identity almost immediately, the event on the boat where Batman nabbed Selina and the diamond also happened, The War of Jokes and Riddles happened before Dick was adopted and he's adopted as a child, but 10-year-old Duke who met Bruce in Zero Year is still 16 in the present day...

    The timeline looks like it goes like this

    Year One - the Crime Alley fight - Bruce became Batman
    Zero Year - Riddler took over - Bruce met Duke when he was 6, not 10
    The Boat - The Bat met The Cat and fell in love
    Year One continued - Selina became Catwoman - Batman saved James Jr., not as a baby but a kid
    Post Year One - Selina already became Catwoman and found out Batman's identity
    The War of Jokes and Riddles
    Dick Grayson was adopted at 10+ years old and became Robin

    Fast forward 10 years, Dick is 20 something, James Jr. is 19 as per New 52, and Duke is 16
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-16-2019 at 04:34 AM.

  8. #23
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    As of now according to King both Year One and Zero Year happened, specifically the fight between Bruce and Selina in Crime Alley, meeting Duke Thomas, and Riddler taking over Gotham City.

    Since Selina knows Batman's secret identity almost immediately, the event on the boat where Batman nabbed Selina and the diamond also happened, The War of Jokes and Riddles happened before Dick was adopted and he's adopted as a child, but 10-year-old Duke who met Bruce in Zero Year is still 16 in the present day...

    The timeline looks like it goes like this

    Year One - the Crime Alley fight - Bruce became Batman
    Zero Year - Riddler took over - Bruce met Duke when he was 6, not 10
    The Boat - The Bat met The Cat and fell in love
    Year One continued - Selina became Catwoman - Batman saved James Jr., not as a baby but a kid
    Post Year One - Selina already became Catwoman and found out Batman's identity
    The War of Jokes and Riddles
    Dick Grayson was adopted at 10+ years old and became Robin

    Fast forward 10 years, Dick is 20 something, James Jr. is 19 as per New 52, and Duke is 16
    Where does The Long Halloween fit in with The War of Jokes and Riddles?
    And even before King my head canon was trying to make Year One and Zero Year work together, so cool that kind of seems to be the main continuity for now.

  9. #24
    Incredible Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Year One for sure, it's one of the greatest Batman stories of all time. Zero Year is forgettable.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, Flash Forward, and Young Justice.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Where does The Long Halloween fit in with The War of Jokes and Riddles?
    And even before King my head canon was trying to make Year One and Zero Year work together, so cool that kind of seems to be the main continuity for now.
    What Long Halloween? ^^

    I don't remember if any Rebirth issues mention it, but if you wanna include it, it has to be before The War since Two-Face's already there
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-16-2019 at 11:16 AM.

  11. #26
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    I would have to say Year One because you have Bruce's origins as well as Gordan & Selina.

    In the latest preview of King's Batman Year One is explicitly referenced.

    I really like Year Zero, but it's a Batman origin for the MCU generation; very pop and vibrant but it lacks depth.

    Year One is a meditation on two men's sense of justice and their desire for vengeance.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    What Long Halloween? ^^

    I don't remember if any Rebirth issues mention it, but if you wanna include it, it has to be before The War since Two-Face's already there
    Falconeís involvement conflicts with this.

    And three years later, Zero Year still sucks
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Falcone’s involvement conflicts with this.

    And three years later, Zero Year still sucks
    Falcone's in The War?

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Falcone's in The War?
    Yeah the Joker rips out his mom's teeth.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Yeah the Joker rips out his mom's teeth.
    Now that you mention it, Penguin was working for Falcone at the time, right?

    Then Long Halloween's not canon.

    Also, since Stephanie Brown's origin from Batman Eternal is still canon, and Carmine Falcone's alive there, (and now that I mention it... Lincoln March's plan in Eternal which lead him to be frozen by The Court which leads to his resurrection if he can bring them Dick Grayson which leads to the situation in Nightwing Rebirth are all still canon) then we're still following Batman Eternal timeline, not Long Halloween.

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