Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 61 to 67 of 67
  1. #61
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I don't think Batman solo can be just written off as a "crazy dude in a mask," since he's more then that. Even with Robin he's got Alfred and Gordon. Robin is an entirely different aspect then that in my opinion.

    Passion I'll definitely give you. Craft could be a little topsy-turvy .
    Alfred and Gordon are essential, too, but Robin is, to me, the incarnation of Batman's inspirational potential, rather than two father-figure types. He's creating a new family, building something. I dunno. It's tricky, trying to articulate why I love different parts of the Batfamily or Bat-structure, but when Chuck Dixon articulated what Denny O'Neil told him when he first was offered the Robin title in the early 1990s, and Dixon said he didn't like Robin, he said that O'Neil told him basically what I said about Batman by himself being just a crazy man in a weird outfit, and that's stuck with me ever since.

    There's only a few craft moments where I think Tynion really fell down, and I blame a lot of that on Metal and then prepping for Justice League. I think the way he tied almost everything (except Cass) together in the last arc is fantastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I don't think retconning is giving old stories or continuity is giving it the middle finger. What makes you think it is done disrespectfully?

    I wonder if a lot of people left when they got rid of the pre-Crisis stuff too.
    I mean, I know a lot of people are still mad at Helena Bertinelli for what it did to Helena Wayne. So I can see it from that perspective, too.

    There's a way to retcon that is respectful - which I would say is a lot of what happened with Rebirth - and a bad way, which is a lot of what I think happened in the n52. The Villains Month Bane story, what Morrison did to Talia's backstory with Bruce, what happens nearly every time a new writer gets onto Wonder Woman - that's all pretty disrespectful.

    A lot of it does come down to "is this a retcon that makes something I didn't like better, or something that I didn't care about cool" or "is this a retcon that makes something I loved bad, or something I cared about uncool". So it can be intensely personal.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    43,592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Alfred and Gordon are essential, too, but Robin is, to me, the incarnation of Batman's inspirational potential, rather than two father-figure types. He's creating a new family, building something. I dunno. It's tricky, trying to articulate why I love different parts of the Batfamily or Bat-structure, but when Chuck Dixon articulated what Denny O'Neil told him when he first was offered the Robin title in the early 1990s, and Dixon said he didn't like Robin, he said that O'Neil told him basically what I said about Batman by himself being just a crazy man in a weird outfit, and that's stuck with me ever since.
    I think we can still see Batman's inspirational potential without Robin, but again, I agree that there is something to the mythos that is left incomplete without Robin even if I think the Batman identity can stand without him.
    There's only a few craft moments where I think Tynion really fell down, and I blame a lot of that on Metal and then prepping for Justice League. I think the way he tied almost everything (except Cass) together in the last arc is fantastic.
    It started coming apart for me beginning with the second arc so I feel differently. He did a good job of trying to tie everything together but some of the lead-up and eventual conclusions just didn't do it for me.

  3. #63
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It started coming apart for me beginning with the second arc so I feel differently. He did a good job of trying to tie everything together but some of the lead-up and eventual conclusions just didn't do it for me.
    Interesting. I did find myself having to get used to the way Tynion sets up arcs - the second arc was supposed to be about Steph, and she didn't really have much to do until the third issue - but once I got into that rhythm, and set my expectations for how Tynion writes, I think it's still really well crafted.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  4. #64
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Batwoman and the Colony was the worst of Snyder-rectonism showing. I stopped reading shortly thereafter.

    And Iíd like to clarify that I donít mean to say that Dick made Batman Batman. I obviously value the character a lot, but I don't have horseblinders on. I just meant that Bruce still didnít think of himself as Batman during his early encounters with Selina. He couldíve become Batman before or after Dick, but he didnít meet Selina as Batman until after Dick.

    Actually, it would work (and be pretty fitting) if he first saw himself as Batman during the Case of the Chemical Syndicate, making it the first true Batman story.
    Secret Origins # 6, which retold the Golden Age Batman's origin, pretty much states that's the case.

    In that story, Bruce's first outing as Batman (itself a retelling of an obscure 50's story) doesn't go too well. A disappointed Bruce decides he's not cut out to be an active crime-fighter and goes to meet Commissioner Gordon to ask for a desk job at the GCPD. That leads into the events of 'The Case of the Chemical Syndicate', and its after Bruce successfully solves that crime, that he decides to become Batman for good.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    3,312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Secret Origins # 6, which retold the Golden Age Batman's origin, pretty much states that's the case.

    In that story, Bruce's first outing as Batman (itself a retelling of an obscure 50's story) doesn't go too well. A disappointed Bruce decides he's not cut out to be an active crime-fighter and goes to meet Commissioner Gordon to ask for a desk job at the GCPD. That leads into the events of 'The Case of the Chemical Syndicate', and its after Bruce successfully solves that crime, that he decides to become Batman for good.
    Speaking of that event... in Golden Age it's said in that first scene that Commissioner Gordon and Bruce are friends, and they keep depicting as semi regularly meet to talk. They weren't even at the GCPD in that first scene but at Gordon's house. Do they ever explained how they became friends?

  6. #66
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Speaking of that event... in Golden Age it's said in that first scene that Commissioner Gordon and Bruce are friends, and they keep depicting as semi regularly meet to talk. They weren't even at the GCPD in that first scene but at Gordon's house. Do they ever explained how they became friends?
    In Secret Origins # 6 Gordon is said to be a friend of Bruce's Uncle Phillip. Dunno if this was ever actually established during the Pre Crisis era.

    The age gap between Bruce and Gordon was a LOT more back in the day. Gordon was probably in his fifties, if not his sixties, when Batman first showed up, and was already white-haired. Year One introduced the idea of Gordon still having red hair, and being probably in his late thirties or early forties when he first encounters Batman
    Last edited by bat39; 09-22-2019 at 07:07 AM.

  7. #67
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    43,592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Speaking of that event... in Golden Age it's said in that first scene that Commissioner Gordon and Bruce are friends, and they keep depicting as semi regularly meet to talk. They weren't even at the GCPD in that first scene but at Gordon's house. Do they ever explained how they became friends?
    I loved how in that story Gordon just took Bruce to a crime scene on a whim .

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •