Spider-Man "needing" the Avengers is disgusting

[Jokerz79]

Doesn't mesh with anything I've seen. I mean, Deadpool's "just" a popular X-Men character; Spider-Man is his own brand.

I love Deadpool but Spidey besides comics also has one of the most well reviewed games of the year with RDR2 only getting more accolades right now, a critically praised animated film with multiple alternate versions of the character, a animated series, a anticipated live action film, part in what might be the most anticipated film of 2019, and merchandising wise probably Marvel's biggest cash cow. Yeah I love Deadpool but he's a flavor of the month compared to Spidey who Spider-Man's an institution with a popular version every form of media right now.

[Snoop Dogg]

Deadpool is his own brand and franchise.

Spider-Man's is bigger.
He's Spider-Man. The most popular Marvel character. Ever.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I draw a distinct line between Super hero team-up and being in a Superhero group.

Being on a team doesn't fit Spider-man and diminishes his abilities and supporting cast greatly. ESPECIALLY if the team is JUST spider-heroes....

Absolutely To me, they cramp his style.

However, Teaming up with various superheroes for fun and wild adventures... has been EXACTLY what Spider-man has been doing his entire career ever since he tried to join the Fantastic Four in ASM#1. You weren't really a hero in the Marvel Universe till you had a team up with Spider-man. He worked with EVERYONE...

That is quite flattering regarding the marvel character Peter Parker, the amazing Spider-Man!

Honestly, I think they've gotten too far from that and Spider-man doesn't seem to have the same hierarchy as he used to with the Avengers and Iron Man stealing his thunder as THE Marvel Hero

To me, the foremost reason for that is because the movie rights regarding the marvel character Spider-Man are in posession of SONY.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Haven't been part of the debate, have read just the OP, but let me say I more or less agree.

The Avengers has a team is not like DC's Justice League. Justice League at their best felt like a real team-up of the best and brightest, some stories you had Flash being the hero, others Martian Manhunter and so on. Everyone got chance to shine and do stuff. The JL feels really democratic and inclusive as a team.

But the Avengers always feels, in modern times like the Cap and Tony show, and it's like the leader is the main guy and everyone is just there. Spider-Man is never really treated or elevated as an equal in the Avengers.

The Avengers is not additive to Spider-Man it is subtractive. And it gets grating and annoying to see Spider-Man having to be some caddy for Tony Stark, when there are at best three or four Iron Man story arcs in the range of the top 50 Spider-man stories, and the only reason anyone cared about Stark is because of RDJ.

http://www.chasingamazingblog.com/20...stern-edition/

"Why should someone with the credentials of Spider-Man have to audition to be an Avenger – in training no less?! This guy has been taking on the likes of Green Goblin, Doctor Doom, the Red Skull and Doctor Octopus for years and you’re telling me he needs to kiss the rings of heroes on the level of She Hulk and Captain Marvel II in order to be graciously invited to train with the team alongside of Starfox, an alien who’s calling card is that he’s Thanos’ brother?...Granted, I know it’s meant to be absurd – Spidey says as much at the end and everybody’s tongue is firmly in cheek – but this is a comic book storyline where Starfox is more qualified to be an Avenger in Spider-Man. Let that marinate for a few minutes and get back to me."

I don't mind Spider-Man being "fifth beatle" to the Fantastic Four, and I like seeing Spider-Man and Captain America together, individually. But to me, the Avengers as a whole since this was a team that for a long time was a string of villains on the road to reformation and so on, and basically a dumping ground for rejects, are just not worthy.

[Dicer]

Frankly the idea Spider-Man cant be on a team like the Avengers and it somehow takes away from his character a narrow-minded way of thinking, that greatly diminishes the potential for new stories.
I'd love to see another Avengers run with Spidey as a main team member.

[NC_Yankee]

Frankly the idea Spider-Man cant be on a team like the Avengers and it somehow takes away from his character a narrow-minded way of thinking, that greatly diminishes the potential for new stories.
I'd love to see another Avengers run with Spidey as a main team member.

The problems with the Avengers ( unlike say the Fantastic Four) . Are 1: Spider-man is treated like the "kid brother" and never the equal of Ant-Man or Vision ( let alone Iron Man or Captain America). 2: Peter Parker who is even more important to the Spider-Man character, then super powers, is basically below Jarvis in The Avengers.I do not like him in The Avengers period.

[Dicer]

The problems with the Avengers ( unlike say the Fantastic Four) . Are 1: Spider-man is treated like the "kid brother" and never the equal of Ant-Man or Vision ( let alone Iron Man or Captain America). 2: Peter Parker who is even more important to the Spider-Man character, then super powers, is basically below Jarvis in The Avengers.I do not like him in The Avengers period.

I fail to see how that's a problem with the Avengers, that's a problem with writers who like to default him in that role.
He can very easily be a respected member of the team when written by someone who feels the need to write him as more than comic relief, at the end of the day there's no problem with Spider-Man being an Avenger there's only a problem with him(and by extension the characters he's interacting with) being written badly

[Inversed]

I fail to see how that's a problem with the Avengers, that's a problem with writers who like to default him in that role.
He can very easily be a respected member of the team when written by someone who feels the need to write him as more than comic relief, at the end of the day there's no problem with Spider-Man being an Avenger there's only a problem with him(and by extension the characters he's interacting with) being written badly

I thought Spider-Man during the Bendis era was considered a respected part of the team and just as important as the others alongside him. His importance was even expressed alot during the Big Time era in his main book.

The next time we really got to see him in any significance Avengers capacity was during Waid's book (after a short stint in the Mighty Avengers and off-panel in the Unity Squad), which is when he is written to be very bumbling and not as effective.

[Frontier]

I think the problem with Spider-Man on The Avengers comes down to the fact that I just don't think Spider-Man really works in a team setting.

He's such a solo-centric and individually-driven hero that I don't think that really gels when putting him in a team. With Spider-Man it's all about how it's all up to him to take care of his problems, because it's his responsibility, and the decisions he makes regarding that. You don't really get that with someone in a team setting, so his role is usually boiled down to just being another hero who quips.

Even the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, which was basically a Spider-Man team show, either barely developed Spidey's other team members or reduced them to sidekicks because the focus was pretty squarely on Spider-Man and him resolving the problems of the week.

I thought Spider-Man during the Bendis era was considered a respected part of the team and just as important as the others alongside him. His importance was even expressed alot during the Big Time era in his main book.

I think Spider-Man on the Avengers during the JMS-era was treated as a respected member of the team, but later during Bendis' run and around OMD and after he became more of just comedy relief and felt more like "the kid" of the team.

[The Kid]

I think the problem with Spider-Man on The Avengers comes down to the fact that I just don't think Spider-Man really works in a team setting.

He's such a solo-centric and individually-driven hero that I don't think that really gels when putting him in a team. With Spider-Man it's all about how it's all up to him to take care of his problems, because it's his responsibility, and the decisions he makes regarding that. You don't really get that with someone in a team setting, so his role is usually boiled down to just being another hero who quips.

Even the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, which was basically a Spider-Man team show, either barely developed Spidey's other team members or reduced them to sidekicks because the focus was pretty squarely on Spider-Man and him resolving the problems of the week.

I think Spider-Man on the Avengers during the JMS-era was treated as a respected member of the team, but later during Bendis' run and around OMD and after he became more of just comedy relief and felt more like "the kid" of the team.

Bendis Avengers Spidey was during the JMS era wasn't it?

[Frontier]

Bendis Avengers Spidey was during the JMS era wasn't it?

It started during it, I think.

I think by the time Bendis left is when Slott took over ASM...or it could have been after that.

[The Kid]

It started during it, I think.

I think by the time Bendis left is when Slott took over ASM...or it could have been after that.

Just looked it up, Bendis Avengers was from 2004 to 2012 so he started in the middle of JMS and left during the middlish of Slott's run. I agree that Spidey felt more important during the earlier part of the run though

[Inversed]

I think Spider-Man on the Avengers during the JMS-era was treated as a respected member of the team, but later during Bendis' run and around OMD and after he became more of just comedy relief and felt more like "the kid" of the team.

I dunno, during that post-Civil War to Siege era he didn't seem less ineffective or inexperienced than everyone else, especially considering how chaotic everyone and everything was running around and hiding everywhere.

Plus you had moments like him jumping right away to protect Danielle first and foremost when things got really bad, and when he stood up to Clint over insisting that killing Norman is the wrong thing to do.

[Snoop Dogg]

Spider-Man on teams is fun and he can be a valuable voice of reason with a unique perspective. He doesn't have to be too critical to what's going and shouldn't be there over more fundamental Avengers, but it's just kinda nice to have him sometimes.

[Frontier]

I dunno, during that post-Civil War to Siege era he didn't seem less ineffective or inexperienced than everyone else, especially considering how chaotic everyone and everything was running around and hiding everywhere.

Plus you had moments like him jumping right away to protect Danielle first and foremost when things got really bad, and when he stood up to Clint over insisting that killing Norman is the wrong thing to do.

You might be right. I haven't re-read Bendis' run in a long time.

I mostly remember him just being there rather then actually doing anything meaningful.

Spider-Man on teams is fun and he can be a valuable voice of reason with a unique perspective. He doesn't have to be too critical to what's going and shouldn't be there over more fundamental Avengers, but it's just kinda nice to have him sometimes.

That sounds like a good role for Spider-Man to have on teams, but I think I can count on one hand the amount of times that's been significantly portrayed in team books he's been in.

I think Spider-Man on teams can be nice and fun, if handled correctly, but I think he works much better as a solo player then on a team or in a team setting.