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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member mortymantis's Avatar
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    Default How do you feel about series having a life span

    I didn't know exactly how to phrase the subject.


    I've been going back and rereading the johns run on green lantern and rebirth (the one prior to new 52)

    With such a large legacy this character and others have such a complicated story line. I know it's just comics but the stories told make no sense in a time line. With adventure after adventure from 30 years ago and still referencing it seems confusing.


    I'm actually not opposed to a new 52 style of a complete new beginning. But what's your thoughts on giving series an anthology treatment? If it's a volume it's that time frames batman or green lantern. No stories. Not bound to anything. You could even kill a. Character. And then in the next anthology retell a new origin.

    A series has a new beginning and a definite end. And then a restart that does not reference the precious one.

    Would you like this?

  2. #2
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    There's room for the kinds of series you're proposing, and from time to time they do exist (think Ultimates).

    Me, I won't lie: I like continuity. I like the shared universe, the cross-referencing and crossovers and al of that. If continuity needs to be rebooted once every ten or fifteen years, so be it; but while it's there, let it count.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  3. #3
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    If it's a continuing character that's part of a shared universe, I'm not really in favor of a series that has a set "life span". I don't want to have one-or-two years of a Batman story set within the shared universe that suddenly "didn't happen" in three years. (It happens, but usually it's not planned in advance.)

    If it's set-up as a stand alone story that doesn't reference anything else in the shared universe, that can be a separate thing to consider. (But I also may think twice about buying that in the first place due to budget limitations.)

  4. #4
    Mighty Member codystarbuck's Avatar
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    Stories always work better with a beginning, middle and end. The problem with serialized fiction is that you can't come to an end, so you rarely have real sustained drama. You get a lot of peaks and valleys. Two series did it well: Sandman and Starman. Both had a definite ending in mind, though they took their time in getting there. I don't know how much of a game plan Gaiman had in mind, as it seemed that it was more that when he decided to move on, he would end it. Robinson was definitely heading to a conclusion. You can see it along the way; he drops clues about the future and has Jack grow, as a hero and person. Minor elements would be revisited later. The closest comparison is Babylon 5, where everything was leading to a definite end and there were planned character arcs. The downside is that you can't necessarily continue with the character. Conan Doyle was tired of Holmes and killed him off, in one of his best stories. A definite end allows you to up the stakes. He then had to undo it, when he decided to continue (apart from going back in time, for Hound).

    You can also look at Manhunter, from Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson. It wasn't conceived with a definite end, other than that Manhunter and Christine St. Clair would try to take down the Council. However, Archie was leaving for Marvel and no one wanted to pick up the series, so he and Walt crafted an actual, final ending. It made a great series epic. They could have left Paul Kirk alive and let him face other enemies, after beating the Council; but, they called it a day. it's part of why that ending has been honored. It worked so well and bringing back the character would undermine it.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    A pretty high percentage of DC's best mainstream super hero tales have a start, middle, and ending. Hitman, James Robinson Starman, and John Ostrander Spectre, for example.

    And I strongly believe that that is the structure that works best (other things being equal) for story telling quality. A lot of conventions commonly used in mainstream super hero yarns are frankly about maintaining brand icons rather than telling best story.

    For me, too much of same old, same old (eg Batman capturing Joker for umpteenth time, Joker escaping, etc) gets stale.

    I personally would prefer main storytelling universe to be re-booted every 10 to 15 years or so, with deaths, etc being irreversible till next total reboot. That would allow some new stories to be told...stuff like Batman marrying Catwoman, hero retirements, etc.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member mortymantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    A pretty high percentage of DC's best mainstream super hero tales have a start, middle, and ending. Hitman, James Robinson Starman, and John Ostrander Spectre, for example.

    And I strongly believe that that is the structure that works best (other things being equal) for story telling quality. A lot of conventions commonly used in mainstream super hero yarns are frankly about maintaining brand icons rather than telling best story.

    For me, too much of same old, same old (eg Batman capturing Joker for umpteenth time, Joker escaping, etc) gets stale.

    I personally would prefer main storytelling universe to be re-booted every 10 to 15 years or so, with deaths, etc being irreversible till next total reboot. That would allow some new stories to be told...stuff like Batman marrying Catwoman, hero retirements, etc.

    Couldn't agree more. That way you could always reference a volume of a character "remember in volume 3 where Green Lantern gave up the power ring? or When Batman used a gun or when Superman killed Luther...or whatever" Then when the volume ended it just started over.

    I think you could get new readers on board and please older readers because their stories are still intact.

    I mean seriously....for Batman to have raised Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and Damian...he has to be in his 60s! And somehow he has a day job in all of this?

  7. #7
    BANNED colonyofcells's Avatar
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    If dc comics can find a new business model that can find new customers every year, frequent reboots are ideal and makes life easier for both customers and creators bec most people cannot keep track of continuity from 1938 to present (except for those who are sort of amateur historians). Super hero tv shows are able to find new customers (a lot lot more tv customers than the current comic book customers) every time they start a new tv show (reboot), whereas current comic book business is still dependent on old customers who hate the word reboot. Every time dc does reboots, they usually have to avoid using the word reboot bec the word reboot is hated by most of the old customers.

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member mortymantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colonyofcells View Post
    If dc comics can find a new business model that can find new customers every year, frequent reboots are ideal and makes life easier for both customers and creators bec most people cannot keep track of continuity from 1938 to present (except for those who are sort of amateur historians). Super hero tv shows are able to find new customers (a lot lot more tv customers than the current comic book customers) every time they start a new tv show (reboot), whereas current comic book business is still dependent on old customers who hate the word reboot. Every time dc does reboots, they usually have to avoid using the word reboot bec the word reboot is hated by most of the old customers.

    Excellent observations.

    I think it's a great idea to bring on new customers. But when a reboot happens it doesn't carry on the old volume but is brand new.

    I think it would be cool to establish some basic elements. Like batman has the bat family superman has Lois etc. but work within that frame

  9. #9
    BANNED colonyofcells's Avatar
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    For superman tv shows and movies, there have already been versions where both martha and jonathan were dead, both martha and jonathan were alive, only martha is alive. For Batman in tv and movies, Dick Grayson can be Robin, No robin or Damian is Robin.

  10. #10
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortymantis View Post
    I mean seriously....for Batman to have raised Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and Damian...he has to be in his 60s! And somehow he has a day job in all of this?
    Bruce Wayne has a day job?

  11. #11
    Fantastic Member mortymantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Bruce Wayne has a day job?

    Doesn't he do CEO work at Wayne enterprises? Or something?

  12. #12
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortymantis View Post
    Doesn't he do CEO work at Wayne enterprises? Or something?
    Lucius Fox pretty much runs things for Bruce; Bruce just sometimes shows up for things.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I personally don't like endings. I know that stories with set beginnings, middles, and ends can are stronger than those without, but I am never satisfied by endings. I always want more. I don't like leaving interesting characters or universes. I'm left with a "What now?" since I can't read more about the thing that I like. That's part of the reason I got into comics.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  14. #14
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    As far as continuity goes, I'm a fan. Creators shouldn't be held to referencing/revisiting everything that came before, but they shouldn't flat out negate it right off the bat either.

    Speaking of creative teams, I do believe those should have a lifespan. When you're in the thick of a soon-to-be-classic run, you understandably don't want it to end; however if they don't, that's when things run the risk of getting stale (e.g. Geoff Johns' GL saga). Most of the revered runs have a beginning, middle, and end.
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  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Since reboots and relaunches can't happily co-exist, readers will usually pick one incarnation and ignore all the other versions.

    Continually rebooting or relaunching will leave you with books that only appeal to new readers each time.
    They'll consider the character dead and the series over once their favorite version ends.
    Only way to bring them back would be to revisit their version.
    But then it won't appeal to the readers that liked the newer version.

    It would lead to a neverending splintering of readers, which would lead to even smaller sales for each successive run.
    Which would lead to more relaunches.
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