Wonder Woman #11 SPOILERS & DISCUSSION

[numberthirty]

How was Batman able to follow the trail of his dead son to the new52 island? This leads to more questions than answers no matter how much anyone tries to "creatively" explain it. Too much happened outside of what this team wants to deadset call "lies", which was mainly the Amazons and her relationship with Superman.

Don't even get me started on this one.

The entire setup in "The Lies" revolves around Diana being able to set foot on the island because she is magically "in tune" with it.

Fine. Factoring that in, give me an even remotely plausible way Bruce Wayne can set foot on the island.

[SiegePerilous02]

The lasso was used to free Superman from all the times he was possessed, Steve used it in Trinity War on Diana so she could tell if she cared for him, it was used to free the justice league from being trapped in forever evil, she used it on Lex, Zod, Mongul, Wonderstar, and even herself a couple of times.

That's all well in good, but we shouldn't have to read other books to get an idea of what her most iconic tool should be. In the context of the Azzarello run, it's said it doesn't work and there is nothing that contradicts that.

So what we read in Justice League, Superman/ Wonder Woman, Batman/Robin, Deathstroke and where ever else the new 52 Amazons featured was just an illusion to them too? How did she help create the Hellbat suit which was featured in Rebirth Superman? How was Batman able to follow the trail of his dead son to the new52 island? This leads to more questions than answers no matter how much anyone tries to "creatively" explain it. Too much happened outside of what this team wants to deadset call "lies", which was mainly the Amazons and her relationship with Superman. It's like they didn't think beyond that of what else would cause confusion and questioning other aspects in other books and characters.

Her relationship with Superman hasn't been revealed to be a lie, she just reflects upon it in hindsight and comes to the conclusion that it wasn't meant to be. And she was right, because it was hella bad.

Those other appearances you mentioned were an incoherent mess to begin with, and much like Batman, I don't read every single comic appearance Wonder Woman makes. I didn't read them most of them (and those I read weren't that great: JL), Rucka isn't dwelling on them, so I...don't really care all that much. Trying to keep track of everything being published at the same time, even when it doesn't mesh, became an exercise in futility. This story isn't concerned with the Hellbat suit. Who freaking cares?

[LoveStar]

Don't even get me started on this one.

The entire setup in "The Lies" revolves around Diana being able to set foot on the island because she is magically "in tune" with it.

Fine. Factoring that in, give me an even remotely plausible way Bruce Wayne can set foot on the island.

Batman was following Ra's Al Ghul that's how he knew to go there. He then asked Diana to go with him to help. So how did Ra's get to the island? Lol more questions still rise.

[Baseman]

To be fair.This is hardly the first time a WW writer went 'the heck with what the other guys did.This is my book now!'

[chlj1]

I haven't purchase a WW comic in about two years! To be honest I didn't get into WW again until she got into a relationship with SM. Which I really enjoyed! I'm Not into WW anymore since they wiped out that relationship and went back to the old stuff! But I will say i'm glad to hear they wiped out what Azz. did!!

[SiegePerilous02]

To be fair.This is hardly the first time a WW writer went 'the heck with what the other guys did.This is my book now!'

And also to be fair, the reverse also happens to Wonder Woman writers.

Batman was following Ra's Al Ghul that's how he knew to go there. He then asked Diana to go with him to help. So how did Ra's get to the island? Lol more questions still rise.

I think we're reaching for complaints when we start caring about how an extraneous Bat-book is using Wonder Woman related elements.

[LoveStar]

That's all well in good, but we shouldn't have to read other books to get an idea of what her most iconic tool should be. In the context of the Azzarello run, it's said it doesn't work and there is nothing that contradicts that.



Her relationship with Superman hasn't been revealed to be a lie, she just reflects upon it in hindsight and comes to the conclusion that it wasn't meant to be. And she was right, because it was hella bad.

Those other appearances you mentioned were an incoherent mess to begin with, and much like Batman, I don't read every single comic appearance Wonder Woman makes. I didn't read them most of them (and those I read weren't that great: JL), Rucka isn't dwelling on them, so I...don't really care all that much. Trying to keep track of everything being published at the same time, even when it doesn't mesh, became an exercise in futility. This story isn't concerned with the Hellbat suit. Who freaking cares?

It contradicts the use of it in the other books. Azzarello didn't want to use it but majority of the other writers did.

And no, her relationship wasn't bad besides the contrived drama at the end because Superman was either going to lose everything or die, which he ended up as both. But that's for the Superman side of things. She saying it was easy, and she doesn't know romance is a contradiction of what was written to the time of his death.
Fyi: Savage Dawn trade, Steve tries to get her to be with him and Diana shoots him down even when she found out Clark was dying. This rebirth conversation was as if he was still alive and they just broke up or something. "It wasn't meant to be" can be easily said when the guy is dead but again a lot of contradictions even Steve himself.

That's fine if you don't read it and don't care, but there are those who do read it all and care. Damian wouldn't be alive if Batman didn't go to the island. The hellbat suit wouldn't be used as some important value in Batman or Superman books if weren't created by Diana's lead with Hephaestus.

[LoveStar]

I think we're reaching for complaints when we start caring about how an extraneous Bat-book is using Wonder Woman related elements.

Not reaching when it concerns Wonder Woman and exactly using her elements that are now being called lies, illusions, parodies, whatever else.

[numberthirty]

It contradicts the use of it in the other books. Azzarello didn't want to use it but majority of the other writers did.

And no, her relationship wasn't bad besides the contrived drama at the end because Superman was either going to lose everything or die, which he ended up as both. But that's for the Superman side of things. She saying it was easy, and she doesn't know romance is a contradiction of what was written to the time of his death.
Fyi: Savage Dawn trade, Steve tries to get her to be with him and Diana shoots him down even when she found out Clark was dying. This rebirth conversation was as if he was still alive and they just broke up or something. "It wasn't meant to be" can be easily said when the guy is dead but again a lot of contradictions even Steve himself.

That's fine if you don't read it and don't care, but there are those who do read it all and care. Damian wouldn't be alive if Batman didn't go to the island. The hellbat suit wouldn't be used as some important value in Batman or Superman books if weren't created by Diana's lead with Hephaestus.

Not reaching when it concerns Wonder Woman and exactly using her elements that are now being called lies, illusions, parodies, whatever else.

One reader's take...

If the entire "Wonder Woman" premise during "Rebirth" is to work out a cohesive back story out of what came before, part of that job is addressing this sort of thing.

The very premise sort of falls apart if you don't.

[brettc1]

Well, if there were any lingering doubts about whether the Azzarellozons were actually rapists I think this issue just dispelled them. The clear message here is that they don't care what Steve's personal feelings are about being used for sex.

Azzarello made Marston & Perez's runs a lie so I don't see how it's disrespectful for Rucka to do the same to him. Turn about is fair play especially when Azzarello's run did nothing to build up the character but rather tear her down along with her supporting cast.

So very true.

We've gone from "Everything you know is a lie" to "Everything you were told about everything you know is a lie - was a lie."

The question now becomes why the lie, and why is Diana now remembering?

I wonder if the whole relationship with Superman was just part of some diabolical plan.

[Outside_85]

Well, if there were any lingering doubts about whether the Azzarellozons were actually rapists I think this issue just dispelled them. The clear message here is that they don't care what Steve's personal feelings are about being used for sex-

Or... you might want to consider she was referring to foiur Amazons giving a great big heeave-ho to a limb.

Which seems a damn slight more likely based on their reaction to every other male visitor.

[SiegePerilous02]

So very true.

We've gone from "Everything you know is a lie" to "Everything you were told about everything you know is a lie - was a lie."

The question now becomes why the lie, and why is Diana now remembering?

I wonder if the whole relationship with Superman was just part of some diabolical plan.

Yeah we know what was a lie, and now we need to know why it came about. Pretty clear cut.

The Superman romance was a diabolical plan on the part of DC editorial.

It contradicts the use of it in the other books. Azzarello didn't want to use it but majority of the other writers did.

Why is the writer of the main WW book not wanting to use her most iconic tool a good thing?

That's fine if you don't read it and don't care, but there are those who do read it all and care. Damian wouldn't be alive if Batman didn't go to the island. The hellbat suit wouldn't be used as some important value in Batman or Superman books if weren't created by Diana's lead with Hephaestus.

There's stories that everyone cares about, but a lot of stories in the Big Two are dead weight and don't matter all that much. Damian was dead, now he's better. That's the important thing, and since it was undoing the impact of a really well written death scene on Morrison's part, we're dealing with a very corporate story that wants to resurrect Damian, sell more comics and make more $$. I'm reading Batman right now and the Hellbat suit certainly isn't a factor there at the moment.

Also I guarantee you the Batman and Damian fans aren't going to be losing any sleep over this, so why should we?

Not reaching when it concerns Wonder Woman and exactly using her elements that are now being called lies, illusions, parodies, whatever else.

Damian is a character who has no importance to the Wonder Woman mythos. How her stuff is being used in a story centering around him and Batman isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. That arc and the Hellbat will get a couple sentences at most in whatever future edition of a WW encyclopedia gets published, if they even get that.

One reader's take...

If the entire "Wonder Woman" premise during "Rebirth" is to work out a cohesive back story out of what came before, part of that job is addressing this sort of thing.

The very premise sort of falls apart if you don't.

Why is addressing stuff like the Hellbat, Damian's resurrection, and the various contradictory New 52 Cheetah appearances even remotely important? Like we had those subplots about Steve, ARGUS, the Crimson Men and the Green Room, and none of that lead to anything. Why should Rucka waste time dusting those off and making sense of it if it's all just dead weight anyway?

[LoveStar]

Yeah we know what was a lie, and now we need to know why it came about. Pretty clear cut.

The Superman romance was a diabolical plan on the part of DC editorial.



Why is the writer of the main WW book not wanting to use her most iconic tool a good thing?



There's stories that everyone cares about, but a lot of stories in the Big Two are dead weight and don't matter all that much. Damian was dead, now he's better. That's the important thing, and since it was undoing the impact of a really well written death scene on Morrison's part, we're dealing with a very corporate story that wants to resurrect Damian, sell more comics and make more $$. I'm reading Batman right now and the Hellbat suit certainly isn't a factor there at the moment.

Also I guarantee you the Batman and Damian fans aren't going to be losing any sleep over this, so why should we?



Damian is a character who has no importance to the Wonder Woman mythos. How her stuff is being used in a story centering around him and Batman isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. That arc and the Hellbat will get a couple sentences at most in whatever future edition of a WW encyclopedia gets published, if they even get that.



Why is addressing stuff like the Hellbat, Damian's resurrection, and the various contradictory New 52 Cheetah appearances even remotely important? Like we had those subplots about Steve, ARGUS, the Crimson Men and the Green Room, and none of that lead to anything. Why should Rucka waste time dusting those off and making sense of it if it's all just dead weight anyway?

It's iconic, sure but still no use for it. But still was used in the other books and all of that still matters. Damain being alive because of HER contribution matters. Cheetah and Steve are part of all the contradictions.

For Rucka's story to work and make sense, some of the supposed "dead weight" has to be considered.

[SiegePerilous02]

It's iconic, sure but still no use for it. But still was used in the other books and all of that still matters. Damain being alive because of HER contribution matters. Cheetah and Steve are part of all the contradictions.

For Rucka's story to work and make sense, some of the supposed "dead weight" has to be considered.

No it doesn't. I've had no trouble following this book because those comics aren't a concern of mine, nor are they for the majority of the review sites. If it can be followed in its own context, the minute details of other corporate driven comics doesn't matter. Nobody is complaining about the contradiction in Steve and Cheetah's narratives because those other comics didn't go over well or lead to anything anyway. He kept the basic premises behind their New 52 selves and ditched the rest, because that premise was the only thing worth keeping.

[LoveStar]

No it doesn't. I've had no trouble following this book because those comics aren't a concern of mine, nor are they for the majority of the review sites. If it can be followed in its own context, the minute details of other corporate driven comics doesn't matter. Nobody is complaining about the contradiction in Steve and Cheetah's narratives because those other comics didn't go over well or lead to anything anyway. He kept the basic premises behind their New 52 selves and ditched the rest, because that premise was the only thing worth keeping.

No complaints sure. Majority of the review sites, half the time dont pay attention to some stuff in any case anyway. Also, I don't take reviews good or bad seriously because some are biased, either overly praising or being too harsh. Steve and Cheetah honestly didn't matter much then but now they supposedly do. Just like the lasso, Steve and Cheetah weren't important and of no use in Azzarello run, however the basic premise: Steve was "her ticket" out, not some survivor that's meant to be. Cheetah was a con artist and wanted to be a villain, not cursed and sad. Diana is now suppose to learn how to love which is a contradiction to how she felt throughout new52 with everyone. She is going to be besties again and go shopping with cheetah. She was manipulated/mind controlled into loving a man for 5 years until he died, manipulated into believing her mother was blonde, turned into a statue, Amazons were turned into snakes, etta's physical change to sorta now looks like Amanda Waller, being the God of War may or may not be... the list goes on.