Wonder Woman #11 SPOILERS & DISCUSSION

[My Two Cents]

I enjoyed this issue.

[SiegePerilous02]

No complaints sure. Majority of the review sites, half the time dont pay attention to some stuff in any case anyway. Also, I don't take reviews good or bad seriously because some are biased, either overly praising or being too harsh. Steve and Cheetah honestly didn't matter much then but now they supposedly do. Just like the lasso, Steve and Cheetah weren't important and of no use in Azzarello run, however the basic premise: Steve was "her ticket" out, not some survivor that's meant to be. Cheetah was a con artist and wanted to be a villain, not cursed and sad. Diana is now suppose to learn how to love which is a contradiction to how she felt throughout new52 with everyone. She is going to be besties again and go shopping with cheetah. She was manipulated/mind controlled into loving a man for 5 years until he died, manipulated into believing her mother was blonde, turned into a statue, Amazons were turned into snakes, etta's physical change to sorta now looks like Amanda Waller, being the God of War may or may not be... the list goes on.

The majority of review sites for the Azzarello issues didn't care about what came before or if other books contradicted it, because they judged it as a work in itself. Same with the way this run is being judged now. Despite a lot of complaining online, Azzarello remained mostly critically acclaimed. So far the pattern is going the same for this.

- Steve and Cheetah are not supposedly important, they are important because Rucka is building a story with them. Azzarello didn't need them, this writer wants to use them. Simple as that. They are also important because they've stuck around in one form or another since the 1940s.
- Steve can be her ticket off the island and she can be infatuated with him at the same time. Azzarello devoted a few pages to it because he didn't care about Steve, his take is hardly be all/end all.
- Barbara was a generic psycho and whatever plans Johns was hyping up for her never materialized. Remember that she was gonna team up with Black Manta? Nope. Meredith Finch suddenly bringing up Urzkartaga out of nowhere? Her starring role in FE: ARGUS got hijacked by Killer Frost of all people. Rucka was right not to waste time on that mess. And she needs to be somewhat sympathetic for her friendship with Diana to make any sense.
- There is zero indication that Diana was ever brainwashed into loving Superman.
- Etta is still black and gained some weight. Amanda Waller is not the only heavy set black woman in existence. And she was fat since the 1940s.

[LoveStar]

The majority of review sites for the Azzarello issues didn't care about what came before or if other books contradicted it, because they judged it as a work in itself. Same with the way this run is being judged now. Despite a lot of complaining online, Azzarello remained mostly critically acclaimed. So far the pattern is going the same for this.

- Steve and Cheetah are not supposedly important, they are important because Rucka is building a story with them. Azzarello didn't need them, this writer wants to use them. Simple as that. They are also important because they've stuck around in one form or another since the 1940s.
- Steve can be her ticket off the island and she can be infatuated with him at the same time. Azzarello devoted a few pages to it because he didn't care about Steve, his take is hardly be all/end all.
- Barbara was a generic psycho and whatever plans Johns was hyping up for her never materialized. Remember that she was gonna team up with Black Manta? Nope. Meredith Finch suddenly bringing up Urzkartaga out of nowhere? Her starring role in FE: ARGUS got hijacked by Killer Frost of all people. Rucka was right not to waste time on that mess. And she needs to be somewhat sympathetic for her friendship with Diana to make any sense.
- There is zero indication that Diana was ever brainwashed into loving Superman.
- Etta is still black and gained some weight. Amanda Waller is not the only heavy set black woman in existence. And she was fat since the 1940s.

Majority of the new52 Justice League threads ended up falling to nothing.
An infatuation curiosity, yes, but meant to be true love, what they are trying to go for now, not buying because he wasn't important enough, not only for Azzarello but nearly 30 years in general and still little to no impact. Diana said she don't know why she was with Clark just cause it was easy and he could fly, she don't know romance, saying she doesn't remember anything else but him...etc. etc. In Trinity, she said she didn't know herself nor her feelings. Now that is reaching. So yeah, you can come to that conclusion sense everything else seems to be caused by brainwash.
Going by new52, Etta gained. Going by year one, she has always been heavy set.

[Gaelforce]

Don't even get me started on this one.

The entire setup in "The Lies" revolves around Diana being able to set foot on the island because she is magically "in tune" with it.

Fine. Factoring that in, give me an even remotely plausible way Bruce Wayne can set foot on the island.

Same way that the various plotlines which involved Diana being reverted to clay or Clayface 'absorbing' her because she was clay somehow still existed even though the whole clay thing was a lie?

Contradictions happen every time DC has a Crisis/Flashpoint/nu52/Rebirth.

But I'm curious as I don't read the bat-books anymore - has there been any Rebirth mention of Damian's death and resurrection? Or was that retconned out of existence? Did Spoiler and Cassandra Cain show up during nu52 in the same incarnation as they are now in Detective? (not a smartass question, btw - I don't know )

[LoveStar]

But I'm curious as I don't read the bat-books anymore - has there been any Rebirth mention of Damian's death and resurrection?

Tomasi said I think via twitter, Damian's resurrection, and the powers he got temporarily might be referred to or even come back again temporarily down the line...obviously in supersons.

[Largo161]

I haven't yet read this issue or this thread--but I can't wait to find out why it's eleven pages long after only two days!

[DragonPiece]

Saw on Rucka's twitter some new 52 fan asked rucka if this is what he thinks it is or should he just wait and Rucka said to just wait. Though I don't see how things could end up being different?

[Confuzzled]

Azzarello made Marston & Perez's runs a lie so I don't see how it's disrespectful for Rucka to do the same to him. Turn about is fair play especially when Azzarello's run did nothing to build up the character but rather tear her down along with her supporting cast. I think DC finally realized that Azzarello's set up wouldn't work for the long-haul because deviant shock value only sparks temporary interest and sales most of the time. Rucka has proven that a solid story full of good characterization and a noble, non-controversial hero can sell decent. I loved this issue's story and art. I'm eager to find out who is behind these "Lies".

10 characters

[Lex Luthor]

What a beautiful issue. I for one smiled ear to ear when she said "its all a lie." Good we can finally wash our hands and move on to better things. Veronica Cale might be a bit more interesting this time around im curious about those dogs. Im guessing she's in league with Ares and those dogs are apart of the Court of Mars.

[Pinsir]

If Rucka choose to soft reboot or simply ignore the New 52 stuff I doubt there would be as much protest. I mean, I personally am fine with reading Azzarello's work as an insular, elseworld story. I just, even if you wanted this, and I get many of you do, did you want it like this? A story where continuity is the driving force of the plot?

[Confuzzled]

If Rucka choose to soft reboot or simply ignore the New 52 stuff I doubt there would be as much protest. I mean, I personally am fine with reading Azzarello's work as an insular, elseworld story. I just, even if you wanted this, and I get many of you do, did you want it like this? A story where continuity is the driving force of the plot?

Personally speaking, for me? Yes. I mean, if it was just a hard reboot pretending that Azarello's run never happened, I wouldn't have been too upset. But since comics are a serialized form of entertainment, it is nice to see an effort being made to have disparate elements fit together. It's the same reason why I would prefer the Mephisto deal in One More Day to be addressed in Spider-Man, however unlikely it may be, as opposed to just reviving the Spider-Marriage while ignoring there was any precedence for it (also unlikely but a guy can hope, right? )

Returning to Wondy, as Dr. Poison said, The Lies is kind of a master class in retconning continuity as it not only succeeds in repairing unpopular developments (I know some folks love the Azzarello run but speaking in terms the fans of the more classic takes), but it also spins a fascinating story in its own right, providing its own rich themes and pathos to the ongoing mythology.

[Lex Luthor]

If Rucka choose to soft reboot or simply ignore the New 52 stuff I doubt there would be as much protest. I mean, I personally am fine with reading Azzarello's work as an insular, elseworld story. I just, even if you wanted this, and I get many of you do, did you want it like this? A story where continuity is the driving force of the plot?

I doubt I'll ever get exactly what I want from any story so I'm not really mad about it. I didn't want a story driven by continuity but its what we have. I wanted an arc with an old revamped villain that had nothing to do with the Amazon's or Greek myth that would get my mind off the last fifty two issues but rucka went in this direction and its giving me what I wanted to see continuity wise even if it isn't handled exactly how I expected it to be. I'm definitely not going to complain esp since Dianas world has been cleaned up

[Outside_85]

If Rucka choose to soft reboot or simply ignore the New 52 stuff I doubt there would be as much protest. I mean, I personally am fine with reading Azzarello's work as an insular, elseworld story. I just, even if you wanted this, and I get many of you do, did you want it like this? A story where continuity is the driving force of the plot?

Thats kinda my bone with this, Rucka did not need to effectively wipe out the New 52, claim it never happened or otherwise (try to) remove it's existence as part of the canon... but it seems he has gone out of his way to actually do so for one reason or another.
On top of it all, it appears that subtly undoing the past runs is the real story here, it's not about saving people or stopping a bad guy... it's about Diana finding her way home, to her real home, which is not the one we thought it was.

[Mr. Mastermind]

Oh really? Please tell me then in Azz's setting:

- How Diana got the name "Wonder Woman".

- Where WW got her costume from?

- Who trained her to display compassion in battle?

- Why did Diana move to London?

The real question is why we need to know any of this. Not all stories need to throw in extensive background details to make sense of be enjoyable. Especially questions like "why did Diana move to London?". If you can afford the rent (and Diana's a princess so that shouldn't be too hard), London's a nice place to live. No need to write a story about how London has some special significance to Diana or whatever.

[Fenix]

They were setting up this retcon going back to Justice League 50 when a dying Myrina told Diana about the lies on the Island.