Ultimates²

[MindofShadow]

I wish the ultimates were in there own book

[theoneandonly]

That was the previous universe. The Starlin books were very clearly situated in the continuity of the time despite some people wishing that they were in this new universe. This Living Tribunal was young, all of the abstract concepts are young and unpredictable. We may finally be free of The Living Tribunal, he was a clumsy metaphor at best.

Besides, this wouldn't be the first time the writers at Marvel have ignored Starlin, just as his recent OGNs tended to sidestep continuity and follow their own path. That's always been the fun of reading Starlin. He is unrestrained.

I think it occurred in the new universe as the one above all requested the alternate Adam warlock to take up the post due to the death of the previous tribunal which had ocured in the previous books although as you say they may just be ignoring starlins take.


Although that is a good question I do think the whole imprisonment thing is barely known by anybody or anything. The question keeps coming up as to why X doesn't know this or Y can't see it. So far hardly anyone has actually seen it with their own eyes, and as was explained here, even those that glimpse it can't keep the concept in their mind. Just as the faltering mystic proclaims 'The smell of petroleum pervades throughout.'

Well if the ultimates can retain some semblance of the truth then it isnt a tall order for the tribunal who oversees and maintains balance of realities to at least have some snwe of something being amiss in the omniverse.
Will there even be a war? Are the chains of eternity necessary for the new universal stability? I am Logos = I am the word, which was often used to help understand the nature of the relation between God and Christ. Is is new figure an aspect of God just as The Living Tribunal was.

it was shown in usavengers 2 that the eternity war is actually going to take place and Daniel cage referred it having taken place. It seems that the war could be fought for rescuing eternity by one faction and thus maintain the status quo and by another faction for throwing of the yolks of eternity's manifest presence which essentially. binds them to a older iteration of reality. Galactus may lead an army or expedition for rescuing eternity and they will confront the jailer or faction who has imprisoned eternity and those who have sided withy them. Ad for Logos taking over the role that remains to be seen bit it seems unlikely as he/they have defied the edicts of the one above all which manifest through the tribunal so tjey would be treated as usurpers if theuu attempt to do so but then the tribunal himself ruled that any entity is free to assume or modify any role they feel fit food so I guess it is possible that this may be another facet of this new reality.

[JKtheMac]

it was shown in usavengers 2 that the eternity war is actually going to take place and Daniel cage referred it having taken place. It seems that the war could be fought for rescuing eternity by one faction and thus maintain the status quo and by another faction for throwing of the yolks of eternity's manifest presence which essentially. binds them to a older iteration of reality. Galactus may lead an army or expedition for rescuing eternity and they will confront the jailer or faction who has imprisoned eternity and those who have sided withy them. Ad for Logos taking over the role that remains to be seen bit it seems unlikely as he/they have defied the edicts of the one above all which manifest through the tribunal so tjey would be treated as usurpers if theuu attempt to do so but then the tribunal himself ruled that any entity is free to assume or modify any role they feel fit food so I guess it is possible that this may be another facet of this new reality.

I haven't even looked at U.S Avengers yet. It isn't on my list either. Maybe I will try and flick through it sometime.

[DangitBobby]

Everyone is assuming the Tribunal is 'dead'. I wouldnt be surprised if he just rematerialized at some point.

[JKtheMac]

Everyone is assuming the Tribunal is 'dead'. I wouldnt be surprised if he just rematerialized at some point.

Well he is dead. That isn't an assumption. He has rematerialised in the past but I don't think his place has been deliberately filled in the past, and we have no reason to believe every universal change has had the same abstractions. Indeed from early interviews for the previous volume it was suggested the fifth and earlier iterations of the universe were very different.

[JudicatorPrime]

Everyone is assuming the Tribunal is 'dead'. I wouldnt be surprised if he just rematerialized at some point.

More than likely Adam Warlock will be resurrected, as messianic beings almost always return at some point. But there's no guaranty that the Living Tribunal will return. I actually like the composite being (Logos) that Order, Chaos and the In-Betweener became, although it's probably no more impartial than Jim Crow was.

[XPac]

Everyone is assuming the Tribunal is 'dead'. I wouldnt be surprised if he just rematerialized at some point.

That's the uside of the LT being an Adam Warlock. Even if he dies he almost certainly won't stay dead.

[JudicatorPrime]

are you seriously suggesting that the cosmic entities who were afraid of Adams vast power as he was literally a living universal reality even before he became the tribunal were able to kill him with a single attack? The whole scenario seems absurd.

I think we have to recalibrate our view of the cosmic dualities -- Chaos and Order, Eternity and Death, Oblivion and Infinity -- as equal peers of the Tribunal in terms of power. At least when they are united by common cause. What the Tribunal held over them was authority, which the cosmic abstracts granted him through their acknowledgment and compliance of its position. But in a power vacuum all bets are off.

It's worth noting that while Chaos and Order were sufficiently powerful to kill the Living Tribunal, they were not powerful enough with their combined might to revert Galactus Lifebringer back into the Devourer. Predeterminism just got a major nail in the coffin. Anything goes, folks. Better hang onto your hats.

[JKtheMac]

That's the uside of the LT being an Adam Warlock. Even if he dies he almost certainly won't stay dead.

I am yet to be convinced that the reborn universe LT was Warlock, and this may partly be an excuse to wipe that idea from cannon.

[theoneandonly]

I am yet to be convinced that the reborn universe LT was Warlock, and this may partly be an excuse to wipe that idea from cannon.

he was Adam warlock as even if you assume that the change occurred in the previous universe before secret wars the universe was restored with some changes but not as such pertainng to cosmic beings as Galactus also was transformed by the ultimates not by himself which has created a domino effect as it has led to the creation of logos and no doubt more to come.

[danteipp]

I am yet to be convinced that the reborn universe LT was Warlock, and this may partly be an excuse to wipe that idea from cannon.

I am wondering the same thing. I did not see any golden hair, which the Starlin Adam Warlock LT had under the cloth on his head, on this version of the LT. Did anyone else notice? It looked like the standard LT, right? Has anyone from Marvel gone on record that the Starlin story line is indeed cannon and/or is the LT we just saw "killed" definitely the Adam Warlock version?

And, even if it was the Adam Warlock LT, either taken down by a surprise attack or allowing himself to be "killed" by Order and Chaos, it could all be a ploy since he either knows he will regenerate and return, or he is stepping aside to allow the abstract entities and lower beings the chance to grow and determine their own fate. Trying to breaking cycles and change has always been a theme for Adam's character.

After all, the LT decreed that the new universe was fluid and anyone could change their place in it from what was pre-ordained in the last incarnation. This could just be the LT allowing events to take place by removing himself from the board. If he stopped it immediately, there wouldn't be the possibility for real change or growth. The One-Above-All was also very interested in seeing how this new universe played out and the primary reason why he agreed to the deal with Thanos and Warlock.

If it really is the Adam Warlock LT and Starlin's story is cannon, then that LT can easily fake his own death and cover his presence to the Galactus, Oder, Chaos, etc. The Adam Warlock LT essentially vowed to protect and safeguard the new universe from threats like the rogue Beyonders. He might not view these changes as a threat, just a natural evolution.

I am very interested to see how this story line continues to progress. I hope we see a lot more classic cosmic characters guest and cameo before it is all said and done!

[XPac]

I am wondering the same thing. I did not see any golden hair, which the Starlin Adam Warlock LT had under the cloth on his head, on this version of the LT. Did anyone else notice? It looked like the standard LT, right? Has anyone from Marvel gone on record that the Starlin story line is indeed cannon and/or is the LT we just saw "killed" definitely the Adam Warlock version?

And, even if it was the Adam Warlock LT, either taken down by a surprise attack or allowing himself to be "killed" by Order and Chaos, it could all be a ploy since he either knows he will regenerate and return, or he is stepping aside to allow the abstract entities and lower beings the chance to grow and determine their own fate. Trying to breaking cycles and change has always been a theme for Adam's character.

After all, the LT decreed that the new universe was fluid and anyone could change their place in it from what was pre-ordained in the last incarnation. This could just be the LT allowing events to take place by removing himself from the board. If he stopped it immediately, there wouldn't be the possibility for real change or growth. The One-Above-All was also very interested in seeing how this new universe played out and the primary reason why he agreed to the deal with Thanos and Warlock.

If it really is the Adam Warlock LT and Starlin's story is cannon, then that LT can easily fake his own death and cover his presence to the Galactus, Oder, Chaos, etc. The Adam Warlock LT essentially vowed to protect and safeguard the new universe from threats like the rogue Beyonders. He might not view these changes as a threat, just a natural evolution.

I am very interested to see how this story line continues to progress. I hope we see a lot more classic cosmic characters guest and cameo before it is all said and done!

The way marvel USUALLY works is that non-canon stories are still a part of the multiverse... they're just alternate realities. But there isn't a LT for every universe... there's only one. So effectively every version of the LT we see in any marvel comic is canon. It's all the same guy. Or at least that's my understanding of it. So an Adam Warlock shown in one reality is the same one across the entire multiverse.

[itspopularnowitsucks]

What about the hidden name and third face of Living Tribunal? Is that an old thing or a new invention? I agree that even it is explicitly stated that Living Tribunal was killed, he could be resurrect in other form.

By the way guys you need to pick up New Avengers/USAvengers. In the last issue, it was literally stated that Thanos

spoilers:

assaulted Project Pegasus because he wanted to construct cosmic cube gauntlets, then kill the Earth as a challenge call to the cosmic entities that he now enters the game.

end of spoilers

#itsallconnected

[Michael Watkins]

they managed to only pick character from the New Universe that I don't really like. oh well. I'm still on board for Blue Marvel and T'challa.

[JudicatorPrime]

The way marvel USUALLY works is that non-canon stories are still a part of the multiverse... they're just alternate realities. But there isn't a LT for every universe... there's only one. So effectively every version of the LT we see in any marvel comic is canon. It's all the same guy. Or at least that's my understanding of it. So an Adam Warlock shown in one reality is the same one across the entire multiverse.

Well, only the Adam Warlock/Living Tribunal is the one and same. There are alternate reality versions of Adam Warlock around...like the Magus. Just not of him as TLT.