Ultimates²

[Darthkostis]

I read the first issue digitally and... dunno. The first Vol was one of my most anticipated titles, but it really dissapointed me. But, I think that has more to do with Ewing having to deal with Bendis' CWII. Now, from what I gather, he'll be headlining the main event, unless the HYDRA-Related one is the main, and his is the secondary. In either case, I think it won't be facing the same problems, and the last page intrigued me, so we'll see. Chavez is my least liked character from the roster, and I'd have much rathered Galactus or Adam, but eh, it doesn't bother me that much. Unless she starts that macho "y'all obey or I'll put a stick up your hineys faster than you can say wha-" talk. Nevertheless, I may give it a chance purely based on Galactus, Maker and "The Ultimate Universe".

[MindofShadow]

He may be giving them direction/objectives like Charley with his Angels, but the team leader was pretty clearly declared:



Again, maybe she'll grow on me, but certainly not my first choice for a team leader.

Callign yourself the leader vs actually having strong willed, former leaders like T'challa, Carl, Monica take orders are two different things.

Big G gathered all of them... he is the one trulying calling hte shots

[Nisus]

I personally love the art and the coloring.

For a more grounded book, I could understand the complaints.

But this isn't a Super Hero book.

This isn't even a Space book.

This is a Cosmic book.

And boy does Foreman and Brown make a lot of scenes feel truly Cosmic.

Behold Carol's Cosmic Beard.
carol.jpg

I'm really interested in where this is going, but the art was... weird. I really respect Foreman, but this was like two or three artist, with different styles, working on the same panel. Particularly here
ult.jpg

Anyway, I'm sure that I'm going to enjoy this run as much as the previous one, or even more.

[GrandEleven]

Callign yourself the leader vs actually having strong willed, former leaders like T'challa, Carl, Monica take orders are two different things.

Big G gathered all of them... he is the one trulying calling hte shots

Yeah and Big G's first called shot is that Chavez is the team lead. So while Galactus may make high level initiatives, it's Chavez he trusts to carry them out... which is odd, partially for the very reasons you listed.

[JudicatorPrime]

She still has resources and access provided to her as head of a space based agency. Even moreso now more than ever due to the cosmic scope of this team.

All trumped by Galactus, who has far more advanced resources for this team than anything the Earth can provide.

[JudicatorPrime]

1. Her Alpha Flight could play a center role during Eternity War

2. Her Kree heritage could connect to both inhuman Royals and Hulkling the Space King

3. She is going to have power upgrade to match her power level in MCU

I understand what you're saying but...

1. The Ultimates are powerful enough to stand on their own. The Alpha Flight team would just get in the way...and given that the Ultimates are soon to get further boosted by Galan to deal with truly cosmic threats, that really makes anyone who isn't at elite power levels already a risky association.

2. We probably won't see a single Kree (aside from Carol), Inhuman or Hulk-King in this book. At least we better not.

3. They're all getting power upgrades, which again, still makes her powerset no better than the others. I'm sure Ewing can write her like she matters, but he could also emphasize the other characters on the team. And with Galactus and Antimatter Man around, panel time is going to be at a premium.

[JudicatorPrime]

I think Galactus made the choice to put her in charge.

Yes. It's Galactus' mission ultimately, as handed to him by Eternity. I'm fine with MAC being the team leader. I thought it was going to be T'Challa at first, to be honest. But any of them could be the team leader. The only question I have is whether or not MAC is ready to lead a team. She seemed aloof and a bit of a loner. But then again, so was Wolverine at one point, and everyone has been tauting him as a great team leader at one point or another.

[Star_Jammer]

MAC has been handling multi-versal threats for quite some time now, and is vastly more experienced than we (the reader) or many (if not all) of the characters know. Galactus chose her for a reason.

[JudicatorPrime]

MAC has been handling multi-versal threats for quite some time now, and is vastly more experienced than we (the reader) or many (if not all) of the characters know. Galactus chose her for a reason.

I'm not knocking the choice, I'm simply saying that when you're used to handling things all by yourself, it's an adjustment to join a team, and an even bigger adjustment to lead the team judiciously. I expect growing pains as she cements her role as team leader. One thing is for certain, she's going to have to learn to be more transparent than she was shown to be in the last series. She needs to trust and open up in real time, not after the fact just to prove she's right. The whole Ulysses thing could have been avoided if she had simply snatched Carol to the alternate earth where precog criminalization went horribly awry. But I guess Marvel needed to push a useless event.

[itspopularnowitsucks]

I understand what you're saying but...

1. The Ultimates are powerful enough to stand on their own. The Alpha Flight team would just get in the way...and given that the Ultimates are soon to get further boosted by Galan to deal with truly cosmic threats, that really makes anyone who isn't at elite power levels already a risky association.

2. We probably won't see a single Kree (aside from Carol), Inhuman or Hulk-King in this book. At least we better not.

3. They're all getting power upgrades, which again, still makes her powerset no better than the others. I'm sure Ewing can write her like she matters, but he could also emphasize the other characters on the team. And with Galactus and Antimatter Man around, panel time is going to be at a premium.

As for the power upgrade part, I am not saying they are going to be imbued with Power Cosmic. I am talking about the way Kevin Feige was describing Carol Danvers in the Hollywood side. It was scary. If synergy happens, you will not worry about Carol being equal or weaker than every single other team member. She's going to be the mightiest.

[Star_Jammer]

One could argue it's possible that MAC did trust Carol; that she assumed things wouldn't get too far because Carol would stop herself when they got there.

MAC helped stop some of the threats Ulysses predicted that would seem to threaten the world (Thanos, Infininaut), so she wasn't 100% against preventative measures. MAC drew the line at detaining a woman when it seemed a "vision" was incorrect.

[JudicatorPrime]

As for the power upgrade part, I am not saying they are going to be imbued with Power Cosmic. I am talking about the way Kevin Feige was describing Carol Danvers in the Hollywood side. It was scary. If synergy happens, you will not worry about Carol being equal or weaker than every single other team member. She's going to be the mightiest.

If that does happen, let's hope it's because they've also decided to start casting for an Ultimates movie. Ha ha! Making Carol more powerful than the team wouldn't surprise me. Anything to keep her relevant, I suppose.

It still doesn't change the fact that we have too many characters with the same basic powers, albeit of varying degrees. Give me a sorcerer supreme, a cosmic level telepath/psychokinetic, a reality warper or particle rearranger, or someone immortal who Death has disavowed and I'm content.

[JudicatorPrime]

One could argue it's possible that MAC did trust Carol; that she assumed things wouldn't get too far because Carol would stop herself when they got there.

MAC helped stop some of the threats Ulysses predicted that would seem to threaten the world (Thanos, Infininaut), so she wasn't 100% against preventative measures. MAC drew the line at detaining a woman when it seemed a "vision" was incorrect.

No, it was clear that MAC didn't trust Carol or any of the team. That was the central reason why she joined the team. The fact that she participated just reinforces the fact that she felt that she was the best person to deal with the threats. It's why she launched into Thanos, as if her powerset and experience made a difference. It didn't. Thanos was cleaning her clock. Her's and Carol's at the same time. If BP and the others weren't there, she'd be dead right now. Assuming she didn't 'port away.

[Star_Jammer]

No, it was clear that MAC didn't trust Carol or any of the team. That was the central reason why she joined the team. The fact that she participated just reinforces the fact that she felt that she was the best person to deal with the threats. It's why she launched into Thanos, as if her powerset and experience made a difference. It didn't. Thanos was cleaning her clock. Her's and Carol's at the same time. If BP and the others weren't there, she'd be dead right now. Assuming she didn't 'port away.

We're not exactly sure who MAC didn't initially trust on the team, and we're unclear whether or not she didn't trust them individually, what they might do as a team, or if she didn't trust them dealing with multiversal threats.

Not to mention, I can trust/not trust someone in different aspects. MAC had no clue that Ulysses would be a thing when she first joined. Just because she doesn't trust Carol to deal with cosmic-proportion threats doesn't mean she can't trust Carol to handle a domestic, Earth-based issue. MAC had likely seen Earths where Carol dealt with Ulysses "appropriately" (much like the Earth MAC saw where Doom eventually took control). Hence, she reacted exactly when she realized she couldn't trust the issue to continue.

[Sutekh]

I would like to think that MAC is wise enough (despite her relative youth) to see that Carol's willingness to make hard choices even when it's personally painful to her would help to balance out against Brashear's idealism, which can border on naivette, at times, or T'Challa's bouts of 'big picture' opportunism, in which he'll give full-throated support for whatever position seems politically convenient for him (or Wakanda) at the moment. Those three (Adam, Carol, T'Challa) come at things from very different stances, and any one of them could be prone to going too far in one direction or another, if not played off against each other.

(Monica is harder to pet down, because she's written terribly inconsistently. She's a hardass leader, full of snark and ready violence, in Nextwave. A consensus-building concialator as Avengers leader, back in the day. A fellow idealistic science-enthusiast, when alone with Adam. Just as hard-headed and law-and-order and all about 'the greater-good' as Carol, when they are talking during Civil War II. It's almost like she's got no real personality of her own, and like mushrooms, just picks up the flavor of what's around her...)

As for Carol and a power upgrade, she already seems to be as strong and tough as MAC (if not stronger and tougher, I have no idea what Carol's current power level is like, only that MAC was last listed as 'class 50,' and about half as strong as people like Colossus, Wonder Man and the Thing), and able to shoot energy blasts and absorb energy to 'go Binary.' Ooh, MAC hit her with a chair once. La dee dah. *I* could sucker-smack Carol with a chair. It doesn't mean she needs more super-powers to 'keep up with me.' Monica and Adam are more powerful than both of them, in their own way (and Monica would have a real problem trying anything with Carol, since literally all she does is generate buttloads energy that Carol can absorb to become more powerful...). And T'Challa's barely got any powers at all, so comparing him to Carol is like worrying about Thor needing a power-up if he's going to be hanging out with Captain America and Hawkeye.