Ultimates²

[ZephyrSurf]

Also I feel like people just know MAC as the punchy person that they don't really consider what her backstory is.

With Gillen's expansion of the character. She's a 17 year old, yes. But she's a 17 year old who's been traversing the multiverse since she was 4. Meaning she has 13 years experience seeing everything that's everything in the Marvel Multiverse. Something that can't be said of any of the other heroes in this team. Even BP during Hickman's run only got to get glances of an already dying multiverse and only for a few months as opposed to MAC's years.

Before her time in Young Avengers(which she mainly joined for the sake of keeping a close eye on Loki to ensure he doesn't screw over the progression of the magical foundation of reality). She was joint team leader of the newest iteration of Teen Brigade.

Teen Brigade who's modus operandi was to covertly deal with issues in the marvel Universe as a whole. Which included saving the Inbetweener(A marvel cosmic), Preventing Loki from falling into the hands of the master's of Evil and keeping Latveria from being toppled.

The Ultimates is MAC's bread and butter in terms of business. More so than everyone else on the team except for Blue Marvel.

[JudicatorPrime]

I'm tired of you marignalizing other characters. Not cause oyu think theyre marginalized, but because you want to bash on Carol.Cause it's clear as day that's all you want to do.

Ignoring Adam's mainstay as the big sciencehead on this team. Ignoring all of Ewings other depictions of Adam(though you probably don't even know them.)

I have every appearance that Adam has ever made. I'm very familiar with his treatment.

I also used to collect Carol back when she was first introduced as Ms. Marvel. You see, I started out as a big fan of Captain Mar-vell, so naturally following Carol was a given. I loved her in the pages of the Avengers back in the day. Really loved her when she became Binary, although I was a little upset that she joined the Star Jammers, because I knew that meant that she would revert to limbo. I wanted her to come back as Binary and join the Avengers at the time and establish herself as one of the most powerful women in Marvel. That was then.

I'm not marginalizing anyone. I'm challenging writers to do better by the characters that they're penning.

[ZephyrSurf]

For somebody supposedly challenging writers to do better, your constructive criticism sure is shallow.

Cause if all you've got to say on the matter of Adam's role in Ultimates is that he's powered up Carol to Binary, you either aren't paying attention or you're terrible at relating points on a broad scale/only care about portrayal as far as the fist of a hero meets x bad guy's face.

[GrandEleven]

Especially with Galactus "funding" the team, It's becoming ever more difficult to justify Panther being on the group. He's become like Batman in the Justice League: a walking deus ex machina so that he doesn't just permanently fade into the background.

[keeen]

I think the most jarring difference I see between Kenneth Rocafort and Travel Foreman is the type of atmosphere they bring to the table. The former makes the book feel like a cosmic exploration book filled to the brim with light-hearted goodness. The latter gives the book an eerier feeling akin to a cosmic horror, especially with how Foreman draws Herald!Anti-Man and Lifebringer!Galactus. Also, I'm still hoping Al Ewing brings Raz Malhotra (and maybe Pymtron) to the team, permanently.

This is a really good analysis of the difference in tone between the artists. I was worried about Foreman on this book, because I've always found his stuff to be very hit and miss. In this first issue, I still see some of the same things that have irritated me in the past, but overall he knocked it out of the park with the cosmic stuff and I liked the distinction between those scenes, the present day, and the flashbacks, so I'm well-pleased with him as the regular artist. I really don't see the issues that other people are complaining about with the coloring.

[keeen]

Especially with Galactus "funding" the team, It's becoming ever more difficult to justify Panther being on the group. He's become like Batman in the Justice League: a walking deus ex machina so that he doesn't just permanently fade into the background.

Is anyone else worried about Carol being the proverbial albatross around the team's neck? She's directly connected to the US government, which prevents her from operating with the team legally. The other members are free and clear to do as they please. She's also the only character whose experience, powers and skill set are duplicative, equaled or exceeded by other members of the team. I'm not here to harp on CD, but is Ewing foreshadowing something by keeping Carol on the squad?

Yeah, these two characters never really felt like they fit with the cosmic-level themes of the first volume. I liked the in-story justifications of Wakanda's resources and Carol's Alpha Flight connection, but the reality is that these are the two A-list characters with movies coming out relatively soon, so they are on the team to drive sales. So now, in the second volume with the government connections removed, the justification for their being on the team seems to be..Galactus remembers them?

[SKJoker]

In Panther's defense, he's capable of using the Infinity Gauntlet, designed a ship to survive the end of the universe, and has intellect comparable to Reed Richards. He's probably the smartest on the team (some may say Blue Marvel, but he's never been compared, to my knowledge). So he has that going for him. And as was mentioned in the Carol critique, Panther has better resources than... all of them.

[Tiamatty]

You know, this first issue actually did justify why Carol and T'Challa are still on the team. It's because all of them have seen the same thing. They've all seen a glimpse into beyond. They've all caught just the barest glimpse of the chains.

So, Galactus can use them all.

[MindofShadow]

Especially with Galactus "funding" the team, It's becoming ever more difficult to justify Panther being on the group. He's become like Batman in the Justice League: a walking deus ex machina so that he doesn't just permanently fade into the background.

Errrrr.... how about being one of the top 10 smartest people in the world lol?

All that power and punching did dick all when Thanos broke lose. It was Panther who came up with the device which stopped him.

And even fi he were a "walking deus ex machina"... they are going to need that when dealing with cosmic entities even beyond the powers of Adam, Monica, ect.

Panther is far from redundant. Adam is "weird science smart" but he isn't T'challa smart, especially when dealing with battle strategies.

[lordozone]

Yeah, these two characters never really felt like they fit with the cosmic-level themes of the first volume. I liked the in-story justifications of Wakanda's resources and Carol's Alpha Flight connection, but the reality is that these are the two A-list characters with movies coming out relatively soon, so they are on the team to drive sales. So now, in the second volume with the government connections removed, the justification for their being on the team seems to be..Galactus remembers them?

Panther is one of the smartest men of the Marvel Universe, has a country and founding, and has proved before (Mephisto, Infinite, Secret Wars etc.) that he is good to fight cosmic threats. And for Captain Marvel, I'm not a fan, but with Alpha Flight and her power level she is more than qualified to be in this team. And yes, they have a fanbase and it's good for the sales.

[Seren]

You know, this first issue actually did justify why Carol and T'Challa are still on the team. It's because all of them have seen the same thing. They've all seen a glimpse into beyond. They've all caught just the barest glimpse of the chains.

So, Galactus can use them all.

This right here.

[neohuey89]

In Panther's defense, he's capable of using the Infinity Gauntlet, designed a ship to survive the end of the universe, and has intellect comparable to Reed Richards. He's probably the smartest on the team (some may say Blue Marvel, but he's never been compared, to my knowledge). So he has that going for him. And as was mentioned in the Carol critique, Panther has better resources than... all of them.

just to add on. He survived the end of the multiverse and helped restore the multiverse.

[JudicatorPrime]

For somebody supposedly challenging writers to do better, your constructive criticism sure is shallow.

Whether a pond or an ocean, dare step in it and not get wet? You understand, clearly. You may not agree with it or the methodology, but I've made my point. For what it's worth, I don't always elaborate when I say "I liked it", either.

...only care about portrayal as far as the fist of a hero meets x bad guy's face.

Yes, that is precisely what I'm calling for...more action, more feats, more glory for the imagination and retrospection. I'm not speaking just of Blue Marvel here, but since you mentioned it, yes, for him, too. After all, that's what Ewing pitched. But don't take my word for it: show me when Blue Marvel "cut loose" in the last series. What about the series before that (Mighty Avengers)? You can number them on one hand less a few digits and the opposable thumb. Now count all of the times he was used as "support staff". I'm betting you'll find more of the latter than the former. Like it or not, it's a legitimate gripe and I'm not the only one who feels shortchanged in that respect. In a team book I usually don't care who gets the shine. But I do care when someone never gets the shine, when they should. Captain Marvel punching Thanos delivering the coup de grace? Ok, maybe. But what would have been more convincing to me is if Blue Marvel had delivered the final blow there. Why? Because in her present form Carol isn't going toe to toe with King Hyperion and winning in pure fisticuffs.

As for U2, like I said, I'm subscribed and hard wired into what Ewing is doing. But that doesn't mean that I have to go along with everything, including the line-up, characterization, plot, or direction of the book.

[Mr MajestiK]

Whether a pond or an ocean, dare step in it and not get wet? You understand, clearly. You may not agree with it or the methodology, but I've made my point. For what it's worth, I don't always elaborate when I say "I liked it", either.



Yes, that is precisely what I'm calling for...more action, more feats, more glory for the imagination and retrospection. I'm not speaking just of Blue Marvel here, but since you mentioned it, yes, for him, too. After all, that's what Ewing pitched. But don't take my word for it: show me when Blue Marvel "cut loose" in the last series. What about the series before that (Mighty Avengers)? You can number them on one hand less a few digits and the opposable thumb. Now count all of the times he was used as "support staff". I'm betting you'll find more of the latter than the former. Like it or not, it's a legitimate gripe and I'm not the only one who feels shortchanged in that respect. In a team book I usually don't care who gets the shine. But I do care when someone never gets the shine, when they should. Captain Marvel punching Thanos delivering the coup de grace? Ok, maybe. But what would have been more convincing to me is if Blue Marvel had delivered the final blow there. Why? Because in her present form Carol isn't going toe to toe with King Hyperion and winning in pure fisticuffs.

As for U2, like I said, I'm subscribed and hard wired into what Ewing is doing. But that doesn't mean that I have to go along with everything, including the line-up, characterization, plot, or direction of the book.

Solid post.

[PyroTwilight]

I'm a little lost as to why folks think any one character didn't get enough fighting beats. I love Adam. He's the big reason I'm reading Ultimates and he's been great here.

But...this isn't a typical superhero team book. This is like the science exploration part of the Fantastic Four amped up to the 15th level.

So yes he's powerful physically but that's not what the real focus is with him on this team. And it's not like Ewing is opposed to him fighting as we've seen in the tie-in's to Contest of Champions. Adam probably had the biggest role there even getting to otherwise outright beat up the Maestro.