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  1. #61
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    Though Ororo's return to the X-verse def was a factor to her development, I think the most important thing that happened to Shuri--development wise--was her becoming the ruler of Wakanda. That move ensured that whenever Wakanda was involved in a story, Shuri would be involved as well (bad writing aside).

    For example, would David Liss and Hickman include Shuri in their stories if she wasn't the ruler? I sincerely doubt it, especially as far as Hickman is concerned.

    Would Shuri have been included in Daredevil #7 in 2014, without her rulership status? Extremely doubtful, imho.

    And so on.

    This isn't to say that there was no other way for BP-writers in particular to boost Shuri up without having her be Queen. However, making her the ruler at the time not only allowed her to hold a solo, but also be featured in non-BP books, including a book that was the precursor to the one of the biggest event books to date in New Avengers.
    I don't think Shuri would have remained Queen had Storm stayed around though. Too many people were accustomed to Storm in her role as Queen of Wakanda and I don't know how well that would have worked or lasted with Shuri as Queen and T'Challa and Storm as King and Queen of the Dead.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Shuri definitely had some impressive moments during each of these writer's tenures. The only real problem I had with Hickman's take is that she died. But so did nearly everyone else so I won't hold that against him too much. However, I do have an issue with Coates not bringing Shuri back when it was clearly established that T'Challa restored everyone. Would he have damaged the monarchy and Wakanda as much had Shuri been on the throne? Seriously doubt it.
    Imho, definitely not. In fact, Shuri being around would've mitigated a lot of the main conflicts of the story:

    -The MAs may still go rogue, but would the rest of the Doras join them? Not sure.

    -Shuri being around is one less grievance Tetu and the People would've had on T'Challa.

    -Whatever grievances the Wakandan people may have had, Shuri could've either shared the blame or even take all of it, depending on the situation. She was the ruler at the time, after all.

    -T'Challa gets support on the PR front with Shuri around, as far as his relationship with the Wakandan people are concerned.
    Last edited by Realdealholy; 11-29-2016 at 02:22 PM.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I don't think Shuri would have remained Queen had Storm stayed around though. Too many people were accustomed to Storm in her role as Queen of Wakanda and I don't know how well that would have worked or lasted with Shuri as Queen and T'Challa and Storm as King and Queen of the Dead.
    Fair point. Although when you think about it, if Storm was still married to T'Challa, she would've been Queen by now, once again. But we all know what happened with that...

    That being said, I was mostly referring to Shuri being chosen for the position in the first place. It would've been a very easy--and logical--decision at the time to pick Storm for the role. Instead, Marvel went with Shuri rather than the "sure" thing, which was quite a gamble, at least to me.

  4. #64
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    This scene depicting Queen Shuri kneeling down in tears before the self same T'Challa who lied to her throughout Everything Dies and Time Runs Out, was just one of most insulting images commited to the printed page as far as I'm concerned.

    It's probably at this point, that I really started disliking T'Challa as a character to be quite frank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Shuri definitely had some impressive moments during each of these writer's tenures. The only real problem I had with Hickman's take is that she died. But so did nearly everyone else so I won't hold that against him too much. However, I do have an issue with Coates not bringing Shuri back when it was clearly established that T'Challa restored everyone. Would he have damaged the monarchy and Wakanda as much had Shuri been on the throne? Seriously doubt it.
    I hold Hickman directly responsible for creating the scenario at the end of Secret Wars II, that enabled Coates to write the self serving, false narrative laden agenda that he went on to push as part of his sorry excuse of a story in the current BP solo.

    It goes without saying that the only Shuri I'm interested in reading about is the one Reginald Hudlin introduced and not this rubbish iteration of the character Coates is presenting.
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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    This scene depicting Queen Shuri kneeling down in tears before the self same T'Challa who lied to her throughout Everything Dies and Time Runs Out, was just one of most insulting images commited to the printed page as far as I'm concerned.

    It's probably at this point, that I really started disliking T'Challa as a character to be quite frank.
    I share your sentiments on the lying on T'Challa's part. Definitely not a good look. That he would choose to follow the Illuminati's policy of secrecy over telling his people about the incursions--especially in light of the situation at the time--was a major pet peeve of mine. As a Black Panther and a member of the royal family, his primary obligation is to his people, not the wishes of non-Wakandans.

    More important, that kind of behavior and the aftermath of such actions--the Doras turning on him and Shuri banning him--unfortunately gives some credence to the Wakandans holding a grievance against T'Challa in this current BP run.

    Really wish that Hickman had T'Challa's reconciliation with Shuri and the Wakandans on panel, rather than off-panel via a time jump. That would've lessened the blow on a lot things.
    Last edited by Realdealholy; 11-29-2016 at 02:44 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    I share your sentiments on the lying on T'Challa's part. Definitely not a good look. That he would choose to follow the Illuminati's policy of secrecy over telling his people about the incursions--especially in light of the situation at the time--was a major pet peeve of mine. As a Black Panther and a member of the royal family, his primary obligation is to his people, not the wishes of non-Wakandans.

    More important, that kind of behavior and the aftermath of such actions--the Doras turning on him and Shuri banning him--unfortunately gives some credence to the Wakandans holding a grievance against T'Challa in this current BP run.

    Really wish that Hickman had T'Challa's reconciliation with Shuri and the Wakandans on panel, rather than off-panel via a time jump. That would've lessened the blow on a lot things.
    Agreed 100%.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

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  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    It goes without saying that the only Shuri I'm interested in reading about is the one Reginald Hudlin introduced and not this rubbish iteration of the character Coates is presenting.
    Quite interesting thing that of all of the contributions Hudlin has brought to the BP mythos, it is Shuri that has survived.

    Everything else, from S'Yan, the marriage, Unconquered Wakanda, and even the Doras as a unit protecting the royal family, haven't made it.

  8. #68
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    Quite interesting thing that of all of the contributions Hudlin has brought to the BP mythos, it is Shuri that has survived.

    Everything else, from S'Yan, the marriage, Unconquered Wakanda, and even the Doras as a unit protecting the royal family, haven't made it.
    Reginald Hudlin was way ahead of the curve as regards creating a viable female character of colour long before Marvel developed an interest for the decades overdue diversity push they're currently engaged in.

    Shuri is Wakanda distilled into its purest form, unspoiled by non-Wakandan influence and the conflict of interest embodied in T'Challa's approach to interacting with outsiders who bring nothing but destruction and death to the very Wakandan's he's supposed to care so much about.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

    Mr MajestiK took a short hiatus and the Chaos Bringer was reborn.

  9. #69
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    Imho, definitely not. In fact, Shuri being around would've mitigated a lot of the main conflicts of the story:

    -The MAs may still go rogue, but would the rest of the Doras join them? Not sure.

    -Shuri being around is one less grievance Tetu and the People would've had on T'Challa.

    -Whatever grievances the Wakandan people may have had, Shuri could've either shared the blame or even take all of it, depending on the situation. She was the ruler at the time, after all.

    -T'Challa gets support on the PR front with Shuri around, as far as his relationship with the Wakandan people are concerned.
    Yes to all of the things you pointed out. I think Coates story would have been received a lot better with Shuri as Queen because he would have had to balance the story. The MA's story would have been even less credible to readers and maybe it would have forced Coates to look at their whole argument from a different angle.

    It would probably have negated the need for the Crew to be involved(Manifold being the exception) and they really had no major impact on the story. Shuri, T'Challa and Eden would have been more than enough to handle Stane and Co.

    If everyone remembers the events of TRO, there would have been friction between T'Challa and Shuri, particularly about the lies he told as you and BCB pointed out(shows that even super geniuses make huge mistakes). They would have worked past it to deal with the immediate threat but there would serious debate afterwards. Would Shuri have exiled T'Challa for his crimes? Yeah, considering she had already done it prior to Wakanda being destroyed.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Yes to all of the things you pointed out. I think Coates story would have been received a lot better with Shuri as Queen because he would have had to balance the story. The MA's story would have been even less credible to readers and maybe it would have forced Coates to look at their whole argument from a different angle.
    Having Shuri around, especially as Queen, throws the gender stuff out of the window. The "No One Man" slogan doesn't fit anymore. It gets even stranger once one takes continuity into account: the Doras sided with Shuri in New Avengers #12. They chose to side with her during the Hickman run.

    It would probably have negated the need for the Crew to be involved(Manifold being the exception) and they really had no major impact on the story. Shuri, T'Challa and Eden would have been more than enough to handle Stane and Co.
    Indeed. The Crew barely did much and, in the grand scheme of things, could've been replaced by any superhero team. Especially being that there were there only for one fight and then they left.

    If everyone remembers the events of TRO, there would have been friction between T'Challa and Shuri, particularly about the lies he told as you and BCB pointed out(shows that even super geniuses make huge mistakes). They would have worked past it to deal with the immediate threat but there would serious debate afterwards. Would Shuri have exiled T'Challa for his crimes? Yeah, considering she had already done it prior to Wakanda being destroyed.
    This is why I really wish that Hickman had their reunion on panel. Did T'Challa and Shuri bury the hatchet for good? or was their friction put to the side due to the threat of the incursion/cabal? Based on the dialogue of #24, one can assume that perhaps the hatchet had indeed been buried, but its only an assumption being that all of this was off-panel.

    Personally, I hope that the hatchet has been bury. Wakanda needs unity, especially after all those events of the past 5-6 years.
    Last edited by Realdealholy; 11-29-2016 at 06:52 PM.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Reginald Hudlin was way ahead of the curve as regards creating a viable female character of colour long before Marvel developed an interest for the decades overdue diversity push they're currently engaged in.

    Shuri is Wakanda distilled into its purest form, unspoiled by non-Wakandan influence and the conflict of interest embodied in T'Challa's approach to interacting with outsiders who bring nothing but destruction and death to the very Wakandan's he's supposed to care so much about.
    After the Hickman run, I've concluded that if current continuity were to be followed by the letter, then Wakanda would need both T'Challa and Shuri to move forward, in part due to some of stuff you've mentioned in your post.

    T'Challa, to me, represents what Wakanda can be. In addition to being a genius and a savvy diplomat, T’Challa is a futurist: always looking for new possibilities and willing to push Wakanda's potential forward, even when facing opposition from his own people. Add that to his unprecedented interactions with the outside world and foreigners (by Wakandan standards) and you have a great leader with forward thinking ideas and great intentions, but a leader who's ideas often clashes with his people and/or government, sometimes resulting in a rift internally. New Avengers basically pushed that theory into overdrive.

    Shuri, to me, represents what Wakanda currently is: proud of her culture, highly educated, occasionally arrogant, highly nationalistic, and a believer that the ways of her nation are genuinely better than everyone else's. Shuri's flaws are clear and can be a detriment to the greater good from a foreigner’s perspective, but as far as she’s concerned, said flaws make her Wakandan. Though she may not have the diplomatic finesse that T’Challa possesses, Wakanda and its people know that Shuri will always put their interest first, at all times.

    Together, both characters complement each other’s weaknesses. T’Challa provides out-of-the-box ideas that can help Wakanda maintain an edge over the world. Shuri ensures said ideas benefits Wakanda through and through, and that said ideas fit a “Wakandan” perspective that the Wakandan people and government can accept in the long term.
    Last edited by Realdealholy; 11-30-2016 at 04:34 PM.

  12. #72

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    lol...


  13. #73

  14. #74
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    I wonder how much different Shuri's character is going to be. She's matured alot since becoming Queen but she still had that fire. I hope it isn't lost with this new role.

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    Imho, definitely not. In fact, Shuri being around would've mitigated a lot of the main conflicts of the story:

    -The MAs may still go rogue, but would the rest of the Doras join them? Not sure.

    -Shuri being around is one less grievance Tetu and the People would've had on T'Challa.

    -Whatever grievances the Wakandan people may have had, Shuri could've either shared the blame or even take all of it, depending on the situation. She was the ruler at the time, after all.

    -T'Challa gets support on the PR front with Shuri around, as far as his relationship with the Wakandan people are concerned.
    I almsot wish Shuri was around from the begnning and CHOSE to go into some sort of "spiritual journey" on her own.

    Assuming she remembered everything pre death, she did pass the kingship onto T'challa, making him King during the reset. Its murky continuity but the whole damn thing has been murky continuity.

    Shuri begins to question her true purpose and is filled with self doubt as she remembers her country being obliterated and her "failing." Was she born to be a queen or something else?

    So, she goes into a self appointed spirit journey by herself, visiting the many religious and spiritual places in Wakanda, and that is how she connects to "mother" and learns the "true history of Wakanda" and gets her new power and mindset. Although i'd prefer "mother" just being Bast in human form.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

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