Should Supeman get the classic suit back?

[Slaughter]

Yes, trunks and all.

[Ascended]

i think there are way too many Leaguers with glow-in-the-dark suits than there should be already (Flash, Shazam and of course GL).

It doesnt have to be a glow effect exactly (though I am partial to them), just something to spice up the visual.

Of the five main DC characters (Clark, Diana, Bruce, Barry, Hal) they're all basically wearing the exact same costume they debuted with decades ago. Yet for the most part, the only one who gets slammed for looking out-dated is Superman. Granted, people will debate the merits of Diana wearing pants vs. briefs and whatnot, just like Super-fans debate the style of "S" he wears, whether the shield should be on the cape, and the shade of blue used. But Superman is the guy who gets hit with the "its old looking" complaint the most when costumes are the topic. He's not the only one, but he gets it more than others (or so it seems to me).

Why is that? Certainly a small part of it is that Superman is the poster boy for the entire genre so he catches all the bitching regardless of whether it really applies to him or not (people complain about his power levels but give Firestorm a pass, for example). But I believe the main reason for Superman getting this particular complaint is that while everyone else adapted slowly to new art techniques and had textures (and such) added into their looks, Superman stayed the same.

Flash got that nice metallic sheen and the excessive lightning. Diana's wearing leather and bronze armor, with all the rendering that implies. Batman's wearing body armor. Hal's got those cool glow effects. Superman? He's got a golly swell cotton-nylon mix less advanced than my Under Armor gear. He looks old fashioned and out dated compared to the rest of the DCU.

Now, us established fans might be perfectly happy with that. We know the character and his merits. We might even be a little old fashioned ourselves. But do you think that visual is going to appeal to a young, potential reader who doesnt have years of fandom behind him, allowing him to excuse this lapse in visual evolution? No. That young potential reader is going to see Superman standing next to the other heroes in his copy of Justice League and wonder why Superman couldn't afford a proper costume, and any ideas he might have had about checking out Superman's solo books are brought into question. And gods know, Superman needs every edge he can get in his climb back to the top (if thats even in the cards anymore).

The costume needing a tweak isnt about making us happy. Its about appealing to our kids, and their friends, and a whole generation who have no interest in reading about a superhero who is still dressed in mom's hand-made cotton body suit. Its just a case of "evolve or die" and if the only thing that changes about the character is the colorist has to add a little extra to the costume, then as far as Im concerned that's a pretty good deal for all involved.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Going back to Lois is devolution. Superman is much more than dating or marrying Lois. And more than having his underwear in the outside of his pants.

Really not the point here. The point is that taking any character who has fully developed interpersonal relationships (like say, a wife) and then removing the history and details of that relationship from the character's continuity is very much the opposite of evolution. It is regression. I would feel the same way if Clark had been married to Lana or anyone else. Superman went from being a fully formed adult with developed relationships and history to being a kid with no important relationships and really no experiences under his belt. So, yeah, its a good thing they reversed it.

And, yeah, Superman is more than Lois. However, Lois is STILL one of the most important staples of Superman comics. Anybody who refutes that doesn't know what they're talking about. Lois is not a "devolution." She's his wife. They have a lot of history between them and readers LIKE that they do.

[Sacred Knight]

Reboots are definitely regressions. In that regard I welcomed the regression and rebuild to do things in new ways, but alas it didn't last. At least not in main line form.

[Alan2099]

Honestly, I think most characters look better in the actual cloth spandex suits than they do in the modern textured cinematic fabric and visible seams, padded leather, armored whatever costumes they wear these days. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but the simple spandex drawings on paper tends to look better to me than when they try to make them look like movie costumes.

I've never had a problem with the trunks either.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Really could care less about the trunks. I think most people who clamored for them back really just wanted the guy who was wearing them to come back. In that way, the trunks sort of became a symbol for Superman's Pre-Flashpoint continuity. But, we've already got that back. So, IMO, it doesn't really matter if we have the trunks back too.

[Lokimaru]

Really not the point here. The point is that taking any character who has fully developed interpersonal relationships (like say, a wife) and then removing the history and details of that relationship from the character's continuity is very much the opposite of evolution. It is regression. I would feel the same way if Clark had been married to Lana or anyone else. Superman went from being a fully formed adult with developed relationships and history to being a kid with no important relationships and really no experiences under his belt. So, yeah, its a good thing they reversed it.

And, yeah, Superman is more than Lois. However, Lois is STILL one of the most important staples of Superman comics. Anybody who refutes that doesn't know what they're talking about. Lois is not a "devolution." She's his wife. They have a lot of history between them and readers LIKE that they do.

OK so why did Nuperman and NuLois not just get wammied back together with Rebirth like everyone else is getting with their memories intact instead of them being taken out like yesterday garbage and unceremoniously replaced?

[JAK]

OK so why did Nuperman and NuLois not just get wammied back together with Rebirth like everyone else is getting with their memories intact instead of them being taken out like yesterday garbage and unceremoniously replaced?

As bad as the New52 Superman had it (and they did take some shots at him, no doubt about it), what I've seen still isn't as bad as what the ridicule they heaped on the Pre-Flashpoint Superman. If you want to compare notes on a version of the character being treated "like garbage", it's hard to top how horribly they were publicly to "my" Superman. I'm still shocked he's back.

My guess it that it was easier to explain Jon this way, in their heads. Not saying there wasn't another way, but that's what they may have thought worked best.

[FishyZombie]

Rebirth.jpg
I see what you are saying, but don't think his current duds stand out in a strange way or give an outdated vibe compared to everyone else.

Going back to Lois is devolution. Superman is much more than dating or marrying Lois.

I mean, he's also a lot more than having a big red 'S' on his chest. Should we get rid of that for progress?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

OK so why did Nuperman and NuLois not just get wammied back together with Rebirth like everyone else is getting with their memories intact instead of them being taken out like yesterday garbage and unceremoniously replaced?

Uh, probably because they mismanaged Superman in the New 52 so badly to the point that he was "yesterday's garbage." Honestly, the only decent Superman stuff from the entirety of the New 52 was Pak's Action run, and even then it was dragged into bad crossover after bad crossover. My guess is that DC finally said "You know what? The fans liked Superman the way he was before we rebooted (not necessarily the stories from right before the reboot, but his general Pre-Flashpoint world). Let's give the fans that character back."

Also, I think it was part of a larger recognition that the New 52, just as a general concept, just wasn't working. Their sales were tanking and they were losing significant ground to Marvel. And a big part of Marvel's success was that fans were loyal because, guess what, Marvel never reboots. So, I think DC needed to find a way to say to their lapsed readers that the New 52 actually wasn't a "reboot," hence Rebirth (with the motto "Its not a reboot and it never was."). Superman coming back with all his Pre-Flashpoint continuity and memories intact is, I think, a big part of that.

[Francisco]

Uh, probably because they mismanaged Superman in the New 52 so badly to the point that he was "yesterday's garbage." Honestly, the only decent Superman stuff from the entirety of the New 52 was Pak's Action run, and even then it was dragged into bad crossover after bad crossover. My guess is that DC finally said "You know what? The fans liked Superman the way he was before we rebooted (not necessarily the stories from right before the reboot, but his general Pre-Flashpoint world). Let's give the fans that character back."

Also, I think it was part of a larger recognition that the New 52, just as a general concept, just wasn't working. Their sales were tanking and they were losing significant ground to Marvel. And a big part of Marvel's success was that fans were loyal because, guess what, Marvel never reboots. So, I think DC needed to find a way to say to their lapsed readers that the New 52 actually wasn't a "reboot," hence Rebirth (with the motto "Its not a reboot and it never was."). Superman coming back with all his Pre-Flashpoint continuity and memories intact is, I think, a big part of that.

This whole rebirth mess has nothing to do with the failure or success of New 52 Superman. Someone up there (suits) decided they wanted Lois and Clark to be married again and to have a kid. That's it.

[manofsteel1979]

This whole rebirth mess has nothing to do with the failure or success of New 52 Superman. Someone up there (suits) decided they wanted Lois and Clark to be married again and to have a kid. That's it.

Rebirth and what's happening to Superman may not be fully directly related,but even if Jon wasn't part of the equation,i guarantee Nuperman would have undergone so many changes by the end of REBIRTH that he basically would ended up pretty much the same as Superman is now,perhaps no kid and no marriage,but he'd likely be back With Lois , the Armored suit would be gone and his attitude would have shifted to be closer to the guy we have now. Either way,i think Nuperman....or at the very least,the pronounced changes that set him apart from traditional Superman status quo ( the WW ship,the armor,the outing and erasure of the dual identity) would have gone away and he'd effectively still would have been "dead".

I honestly wished they would have done it that way rather than how they did do it....but they didn't.we have what we have,and overall sales and critical acclaim are better than they have been in years,even back when Nuperman was doing well under Morrison's pen,so It's obviously struck a chord.

[manduck37]

Well, Rebirth came about when DC/WB along with Johns and some other higher ups realized that comic readers actually like their history. So resetting with the New 52 took things a little too far. Readers wanted that history back. So now we have Rebirth with 10 missing years that the heroes are trying to recover. Which brings us back to Superman. Superman isn't the reason Rebirth happened. Though Rebirth and a missing 10 years is a much more drastic change for Superman. New 52 Superman was much younger, in his early to mid 20's. His relationships were much different than previous versions. Certain elements don't have to be changed, like his awesome new Golden Age inspired Origin. Though you can't really restore 10 years to someone so young who is pretty early in his career. So what do you do? In this case, we got a confusing story of an "alternate" Superman (in quotes because who really knows at this point). It's easier to squeeze in 10 years of history to a character who is a bit older. Bringing back the lost time just doesn't make sense with New 52 Superman. New 52 Superman certainly has his merits but he was essentially a reset of the Superman concept. You're starting from the ground up with him. So there is no real history to restore. Seems some fans and creators wanted to restore that Post-Crisis history (me among them, not going to lie). So you have to remove the reset version and bring in the version that has that familiar history that the audience you're aiming at wants to see. This isn't happening to other characters because they essentially didn't get the full reset that Superman got. Batman's timeline came in largely intact and he's older. Same with Hal and to some extent Barry.

Now, Rebirth did do something with the classic suit (to bring this back around) that I really didn't expect to ever see again. They made it part of Superman's history officially. We see that Superman (or Superdad, to differentiate) did wear that classic costume as shown in the Doomsday flashback. So in a New 52 world, the classic suit came back in some kind of official capacity. Really, that's good enough for me. Feel free to tweak Superman's costume and go with something more modern moving forward. The classic was there though.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

This whole rebirth mess has nothing to do with the failure or success of New 52 Superman. Someone up there (suits) decided they wanted Lois and Clark to be married again and to have a kid. That's it.

Well, how do you know? Unless any of us have a crystal ball into Dan Didio's mind, I don't think any one of us can presume to know their motives.

[Ascended]

Rebirth.jpg
I see what you are saying, but don't think his current duds stand out in a strange way or give an outdated vibe compared to everyone else.

No, the current suit fits in just fine. I have a few quibbles with the design itself but it looks contemporary enough. And they could have made the classic suit contemporary as well with a few minor tweaks to the texture work. And a glow-effect on the shield (think Ivan Reis' Trinity War era Justice League) wouldn't hurt either in my opinion. But the Rebirth suit looks like it "fits" with the rest of them, which is pretty important.

Uh, probably because they mismanaged Superman in the New 52 so badly to the point that he was "yesterday's garbage."

I think this is what confuses people the most. You're right that Nuperman never saw his potential realized and wasn't in a great place by the end of things, but post-Crisis Superman was in even worse shape by the end of his reign both commercially and creatively. That's why people don't get the change. Yeah, we all know Superman needed a shift and change, but replacing him with the only version in eighty years to do worse? The version that was doing so poorly that talks of revamping the character lead to an entire reboot for the DCU? That just seems like taking a flat tire, and replacing it with a stone block.

Don't get me wrong, Tomasi has been doing great work and Ive enjoyed the Rebirth Superman, but that doesnt make the chain of events any less weird or illogical.

i guarantee Nuperman would have undergone so many changes by the end of REBIRTH that he basically would ended up pretty much the same as Superman is now

Absolutely. Hell, post-Crisis Superman underwent a number of changes to end up at this point and in most regards they weren't any more drastic than what Nuperman would have required. This is not the way post-Crisis Superman was written in the years leading up to the 52. Really, Superdad should be considered a brand new version of Superman, not a return of post-Crisis. Superdad and post-Crisis might share a history (and even then the details seem questionable) but the personality and status quo are different enough to constitute a new version I think.

Just goes to show that any particular version is only that; a version, and subject to change with little incentive. From the minds of those sitting highest at DC/WB, Superman is Superman regardless of the details.