Controversial Superman Opinions

[Superlad93]

I'm not willing to betray Clark's character and **** on who he was made to be in order to basically do it again but this time it's mine.

He'd have been written by Morrison with pretty much everything from Superman & The Authority. I don't see that as shitting on him.

All the plans I've read about 5G generally threw away the past to build a future, but i would argue having a very out-of-character and unsatisfying ending to the OG characters like right wing authoritarian Superdespot was more harm than good and destined 5G to be another thing to retcon.

I think it more gave soft ending to them that acted as honest critiques of how superhero comics stagnate and ultimately become more about their navel gazing than leaving the world better than they found it. Morrison likely used that general critique as the base for Superman & The Authority, and it's why that's how he opens things with Black-- by saying he and his friends did in fact fail.

But the thing that people who write 5G off seem to be missing is that wouldn't have been the end of their stories. Similar to how the JSA being forced to retire didn't end their stories. As stated before, the OGs would've basically taken on a JSA role, and that means they've have had room to grow and teach. It's like assume the New 52 starts and stops with the Justice League not being friends or Superman not being able to fly. It's an arc.

You can't just light the stuff people like on fire and give them something else thinking it's going to be okay if they like the new stuff too.

With the above in mind, I think that's being dramatic.

[Agent Z]

If 5G were proposed by someone who wasn't DiDio, I'd have been cautiously optimistic. Seeing how a lot of his other ideas turned out, I don't expect what he would have put out to be any better.

Between the failures during his tenure and the wretched environment he fostered, I don't see how anyone can continue to defend DiDio in good faith. People have been raked over the coals by superhero fans for decades while being nowhere near as bad as him.

[Robanker]

He'd have been written by Morrison with pretty much everything from Superman & The Authority. I don't see that as shitting on him.



I think it more gave soft ending to them that acted as honest critiques of how superhero comics stagnate and ultimately become more about their navel gazing than leaving the world better than they found it. Morrison likely used that general critique as the base for Superman & The Authority, and it's why that's how he opens things with Black-- by saying he and his friends did in fact fail.

But the thing that people who write 5G off seem to be missing is that wouldn't have been the end of their stories. Similar to how the JSA being forced to retire didn't end their stories. As stated before, the OGs would've basically taken on a JSA role, and that means they've have had room to grow and teach. It's like assume the New 52 starts and stops with the Justice League not being friends or Superman not being able to fly. It's an arc.



With the above in mind, I think that's being dramatic.

The key difference is that the JSA aren't made into antithetical versions of themselves when they fail. America essentially betrayed them. They remained intact morally.

Clark turning into a right wing authoritarian is pretty much against everything he believes in. It betrays the character. Furthermore, it essentially puts a soft ending to his story as we shuffle him offstage for his son to become the protagonist. Clark's story basically ends there. The idealist falls and it's up to his son to fulfill his promise.

That's a really awful ending for Superman. Sure, he's still around, but he's essentially that musician who still releases music nobody cares about anymore. Yeah, he's out there, but effectively he's inert.

5G as an idea could work, but everything Didio wanted to do that I've read has largely felt like reactionary ideas from a man who history proved petty about his defeats. The only real surprise was that Damian actually went heel with Jon being set up as the protagonist to the Bat brat's antagonist, but with Jace there to appease anyone who worried that Batman is evil now. I want expecting Jon to get to be set back up as significant to the meta plot at DC.

But it's not worth taking one last, massive dig at Clark. There's no way you make that turn without betraying who Superman is. There's no way he's still with Lois. She's either dead or left him. There's no chance Kara is on board. She's likely still in three moral right. No, as usual, it's Clark being misguided but this time it's actually the real Superman. It's betrayal. Full-stop. Mercifully, Jonathan and Martha will be long in the ground so they wouldn't see their son go full dickhead.

Make no mistake, Didio's reign produced a kid of comics I love, but I just do not see 5G as anything short of a dodged bullet. The bad far outweighed the good.

Morrison came in later. They changed the plan for the better. Didio actively wanted to do something they really could not let pass. That alone speaks volumes. Morrison had to step in and save Superman.

I'll agree I was and am being dramatic, but hyperbole is much comfier than reason here in California.

In all seriousness, I think 5G as an idea works best as an imprint. I don't think it was going to last, especially with the proposed changes.

[Superlad93]

The key difference is that the JSA aren't made into antithetical versions of themselves when they fail. America essentially betrayed them. They remained intact morally.

Sure, but that was there arc, and this would've been the JLA's. But again, Morrison would've taken care of the more unflattering take, yet still left it so Clark could've had an arc and admitted "yeah, my generation really dropped the ball and left you kids with a mess to clean up."

Furthermore, it essentially puts a soft ending to his story as we shuffle him offstage for his son to become the protagonist. Clark's story basically ends there. The idealist falls and it's up to his son to fulfill his promise.

Off stage? He'd have had a book. It was and would've been called Superman & The Authority. He just wouldn't have been in the main 5G Superman books as the star. But again, he'd have had 2G prestige books plus S&TA.

Yeah, he's out there, but effectively he's inert.

Inert can't possibly be the word you're looking for because that implies nothing else is going on with him when literally 5G for Clark would've been about his mid life second act.

Morrison came in later. They changed the plan for the better. Didio actively wanted to do something they really could not let pass. That alone speaks volumes. Morrison had to step in and save Superman.

DiDio was pitching to Morrison. Nothing was made or finalized yet. And the way Morrison tells it, like the way DiDio basically suckered them into doing GL, he did the same with this. What seems most likely is that DiDio had a general idea and was looking for a writer to make it their own or turn it into something they could both agree on. That's was literally his job and theirs. It's similar to how it was just sort of generally pitched that the next Batman will be black. They pitched around names like Black Lighting, Mr. Traffic, and Luke Fox. Then they landed on Luke (likely at Ridley's request) and now Jace. And even before that apparently it was Bendis who suggested it. It's essentially the group talk "Marvel method" where ideas are just thrown around.

I'll agree I was and am being dramatic, but hyperbole is much comfier than reason here in California.

Ha! No worries.

In all seriousness, I think 5G as an idea works best as an imprint. I don't think it was going to last, especially with the proposed changes.

I disagree and think the structure of it was a lot more freeing and genuinely interesting and fun than what comics are now. It was something truly new and fresh and it truly breaks my heart to see it reduced to this bastardization where the new Wonder Woman isn't even Wonder Woman, the new Batman's getting kicked out of Gotham, and all feelings of cohesion and something being built have been thrown right out. I do blame DiDio for not being able to lead (apparently creating a stressful work environment) and sell this forward thinking idea to the people that work for him, yes. But I also blame guys like Snyder and Williamson for literally throwing temper tantrums at their jobs. I'm hearing this second hand mind you, but from what I understand it's very childish.

[Robanker]

Sure, but that was there arc, and this would've been the JLA's. But again, Morrison would've taken care of the more unflattering take, yet still left it so Clark could've had an arc and admitted "yeah, my generation really dropped the ball and left you kids with a mess to clean up."



Off stage? He'd have had a book. It was and would've been called Superman & The Authority. He just wouldn't have been in the main 5G Superman books as the star. But again, he'd have had 2G prestige books plus S&TA.



Inert can't possibly be the word you're looking for because that implies nothing else is going on with him when literally 5G for Clark would've been about his mid life second act.



DiDio was pitching to Morrison. Nothing was made or finalized yet. And the way Morrison tells it, like the way DiDio basically suckered them into doing GL, he did the same with this. What seems most likely is that DiDio had a general idea and was looking for a writer to make it their own or turn it into something they could both agree on. That's was literally his job and theirs. It's similar to how it was just sort of generally pitched that the next Batman will be black. They pitched around names like Black Lighting, Mr. Traffic, and Luke Fox. Then they landed on Luke (likely at Ridley's request) and now Jace. And even before that apparently it was Bendis who suggested it. It's essentially the group talk "Marvel method" where ideas are just thrown around.



Ha! No worries.



I disagree and think the structure of it was a lot more freeing and genuinely interesting and fun than what comics are now. It was something truly new and fresh and it truly breaks my heart to see it reduced to this bastardization where the new Wonder Woman isn't even Wonder Woman, the new Batman's getting kicked out of Gotham, and all feelings of cohesion and something being built have been thrown right out. I do blame DiDio for not being able to lead (apparently creating a stressful work environment) and sell this forward thinking idea to the people that work for him, yes. But I also blame guys like Snyder and Williamson for literally throwing temper tantrums at their jobs. I'm hearing this second hand mind you, but from what I understand it's very childish.

I do mean inert because he's functionally a flat note as a character when you turn him into a corrupted figure. He's simply a bar for Jon to surpass by then, book or not. He won't really mean anything otherwise no matter what stories they tell with him because his arc narrative is still "the one who gave up on his ideals and proved absolute powers corrupt absolutely."

The reason Clark has endured is because he never caves to a **** tomorrow. Yes, as a character you can argue that if he betrays that value, he's still doing things. You're right.

But he's just no longer Superman. 5G was stripping Clark of who he is to give it to someone else and keep him around to drip feed us Clark until we're tired of not getting Superman from him anymore.

You see this in old Hollywood. The protagonist actor starts getting old and starts playing the villain for the new hero actor to kill in each movie. You go because you love that old actor, but little by little, they stop being anything else but a stepping stone for other people.

It's a tale older than any of us. Didio saw Clark as used up because New 52 failed, so he was putting him out to pasture. No 2G prestige book is going to change that you know he goes heel eventually the same way no great prequel to Injustice is going to be enjoyable as a Superman fan even if it's great-- you know where it goes.

You're not going to make people feel better about who Max Lord becomes if you do G3 prestige books about the JLI where he is buddy buddy with Ted, dig?

Moreover, I don't blame Snyder or the rest for wanting to jump ship. DC pays dogshit and you don't own anything so when you're old, all your work gets you is "special thanks."

They're at DC because they love the characters and stories which Dan was actively trampling on to try something new. It was big and bold, but not the right idea. That's an imprint. Throwing out Clark Kent and making him some ******* his son needs to be better than who gets his own book to remind you he's not Superman anymore is not going to keep the people who read these books their whole lives and now want to write them chomping at the bit to, well, write 5G.

I don't doubt childish tantrums were thrown, but I also think they were seeing that this was not something easy to come back from and after Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, New 52 and Rebirth all in the same 10 year span, DC couldn't do this **** again and mulligan if it fucked up.

I think everyone knew that if Dan, who already fucked this up before, fucked up again... It might be too far. They may have to reboot again and that's really, really not a good message to prospective readers who presumably saw adaptions they liked and wanted to learn the history of those characters only to see it's been volatile and continues to be with no change in sight.

Dan's vision was unstable. He was grasping at the allure of infinite possibility when it had been proven historically that, to be crass, his dick wasn't that long.

I don't know that anyone's is, frankly.

On the subject of Morrison, the secret seems to be to present them a Gordian knot and say "fix it." Superman and the Authority was good but not revolutionary. I don't really think that's emblematic of Didio getting gold from Morrison who, by all accounts, generally was just told "we're fucked, figure something out" and they say "no no no no no alright you talked me into it."

Pretty sure the only reason we haven't healed the divide in America is nobody called Grant and asked if they have a pitch. lol

[marhawkman]

I'm ready to get crapped on for what I'm about to write.

Enh we'll see.

I think Power Girl has a cool personality, but her whole schtick of being Kara Zor el from a different dimension, but that lives within our dimension and looks/ acts like a normal superhero, is a really difficult combination of ideas. Her being an interdimensional immigrant with her own distinct identity, but one that has nothing to do with being an interdimensional immigrant, just makes her far too convoluted on a conceptual basis. Taking away the idea that she is from another dimension could help focus in on her whole deal. Personally, I would make her Supergirl's older, loner sister.

Enh... yeah ok this is dumb.

It's pretty easy to do this without her being a sister. The dynamic between the two in books where they interact is people who are family but... don't really know each other at all. So big sister is too close a relation. also.... Supergirl and Superman aren't from the same city. Yeah, Supergirl is from Argo, and Superman is from Kryptonoplis. Which one would PG be from? enh.... there's several options really. Kandor is one of the more widely known options. The house of El was one of the oldest noble houses on Krypton, so it makes sense for them to be spread pretty far... Well.... Argo is on the other side of the continent of Lurvan from Kryptonopolis anyways. That pretty much leaves ANY city in Lurvan fair game really.

Hmm... It just occurred to me that most stories about the people of Krypton doing things on Earth... are Kryptonians from places in Lurvan. Hmm... Thing is, at least in some continuities, and possibly only in the past, the people on the continent of Urrika (most notably the region of Erkol) attacked Kryptonopolis.. Hmm I wouldn't have PG be from there, but maybe some of the Zoners... Those would be people with a much better reason to have the House of El than members of the House of Zod.

[The World]

Do Post-Crisis readers unironically believe they're on the side of preserving Superman's history and integrity?

[exile001]

I'm ready to get crapped on for what I'm about to write. I think Power Girl has a cool personality, but her whole schtick of being Kara Zor el from a different dimension, but that lives within our dimension and looks/ acts like a normal superhero, is a really difficult combination of ideas. Her being an interdimensional immigrant with her own distinct identity, but one that has nothing to do with being an interdimensional immigrant, just makes her far too convoluted on a conceptual basis. Taking away the idea that she is from another dimension could help focus in on her whole deal. Personally, I would make her Supergirl's older, loner sister.

Between 1985 and the mid-00s she wasn't this at all, she was something to do was Arion (the sorcerer) and had been entombed in ice for a thousand years or something. It helped to take the focus off her origins but she was helped much more by being part of the justice League and regularly appearing in books. It gave her more character and we got to see her doing things and being a hero (even if some of her arcs were ill-conceived).

A big part of her problem was Geoff Johns dragging all this back up for Infinite Crisis. She had a whole miniseries (or was it an arc in JLA/JSA Classified?) then a chunk of Infinite Crisis dedicated to making her history more of a convoluted mess than ever before.

I think all Powergirl needs is a few decent runs that just focus on her as a character who is moving forward.

Give her a simplified Superman-style blurb at the start of the first issue (changed up to give her more agency), e.g. "The sole survivor of a doomed parallel dimension, Kara Zor-L was the inspiration to her world and its Superman. Now here on Earth, she continues to fight for those who need it and for herself. She is not Supergirl. She is Powergirl" and let that be the end of it.

Preferably change her up to Power Woman, too.

[exile001]

It's pretty easy to do this without her being a sister. The dynamic between the two in books where they interact is people who are family but... don't really know each other at all. So big sister is too close a relation. also.... Supergirl and Superman aren't from the same city. Yeah, Supergirl is from Argo, and Superman is from Kryptonoplis. Which one would PG be from? enh.... there's several options really. Kandor is one of the more widely known options. The house of El was one of the oldest noble houses on Krypton, so it makes sense for them to be spread pretty far... Well.... Argo is on the other side of the continent of Lurvan from Kryptonopolis anyways. That pretty much leaves ANY city in Lurvan fair game really.

To be fair, I feel exactly the same about Supergirl being Superman's cousin for many of the same reasons. I hate it.

I'd rather do the mental gymnastics of remembering she's a Lana Lang clone from another (dead) dimension that is also a silly-putty shape changer and sometimes an angel that absorbed another girl, rather than the pure laziness of Superman's dad had an identical twin brother who was also the best at all the science and was the only one who believed him so he, too, sent his only child to Earth before Krypton died. also she was Superman's babysitter.

[Alpha]

Enh we'll see.Enh... yeah ok this is dumb.

It's pretty easy to do this without her being a sister. The dynamic between the two in books where they interact is people who are family but... don't really know each other at all. So big sister is too close a relation.

Thank you for communicating, I appreciate your feedback.

But is there a particular reason why they couldn't act like sisters who don't really get along with each other due to guilt, resentment and separation? I feel like it would add to both Supergirl and Power Girl as characters if they had each other as sisters and grew apart during their adolescence due to family conflicts. I think that dynamic actually rounds out their world, and makes Supergirl feel even more like Clark's cousin since she has sister to contrast.

What if Power Girl left Krypton a few years before it exploded, in a way that hurt her family (but for a good cause) and then found out that her whole family died. She became Power Girl fighting for some kind of cause in Space, and Decades later she heard that a little planet called Earth had two powerful Kryptonian survivors. One of them was actually her baby cousin, AND THE OTHER WAS HER SISTER. But maybe when Power Girl went to Earth things didn't actually turn out so well, because everything that had happened actually made it harder for her to connect with her sister who was still a teenager after all this time. And yet Power Girl stuck around on Earth.


I feel like these ideas would probably make some fans here cringe, but I'm just trying to communicate that Kara being Supergirl but from another dimension, but not presenting herself as Supergirl makes someone with a very accessible personality, become really hard to grasp.

Honestly, my first reaction to her years ago was "Who is she and why is she wearing that costume?"

My second reaction was "wait, why do we need a Supergirl from another dimension? We already have one in this dimension."

And then I actually read some stories where she appeared and quite liked her personality, but nothing about her origin made sense to me, it felt so unnecessary.

She's the kind of character that requires so much set up before hand. First you need to know about Superman and his world. Then you need to know about Supergirl. Then you need to know about how the DC multiverse works and how it has been destroyed over the decades. Then you actually get to know Kara Zor-l. Then you learn the reasons why she feels so distant from the Superman family and the Symbol/ colors. Then you learn about her creating a new path in this world, both as a Superhero and in the world of corporations. And even after learning all of this, most of it makes it harder to enjoy all the unnecessary elements in her story that got us into this great place.

[marhawkman]

To be fair, I feel exactly the same about Supergirl being Superman's cousin for many of the same reasons. I hate it.

I'd rather do the mental gymnastics of remembering she's a Lana Lang clone from another (dead) dimension that is also a silly-putty shape changer and sometimes an angel that absorbed another girl, rather than the pure laziness of Superman's dad had an identical twin brother who was also the best at all the science and was the only one who believed him so he, too, sent his only child to Earth before Krypton died. also she was Superman's babysitter.

I think this is mostly because of that old editorial mandate about Superman being the only (or nearly) the only heroic Kryptonian. You have dozens of villains like Zod and the various Zoners though. It's like Hunh? If you simply leave out the mandate that Jor-El be the only one to try to evacuate Krypton then... well it's a lot easier to work out.

Thank you for communicating, I appreciate your feedback.

But is there a particular reason why they couldn't act like sisters who don't really get along with each other due to guilt, resentment and separation? I feel like it would add to both Supergirl and Power Girl as characters if they had each other as sisters and grew apart during their adolescence due to family conflicts. I think that dynamic actually rounds out their world, and makes Supergirl feel even more like Clark's cousin since she has sister to contrast.

What if Power Girl left Krypton a few years before it exploded, in a way that hurt her family (but for a good cause) and then found out that her whole family died. She became Power Girl fighting for some kind of cause in Space, and Decades later she heard that a little planet called Earth had two powerful Kryptonian survivors. One of them was actually her baby cousin, AND THE OTHER WAS HER SISTER. But maybe when Power Girl went to Earth things didn't actually turn out so well, because everything that had happened actually made it harder for her to connect with her sister who was still a teenager after all this time. And yet Power Girl stuck around on Earth.


I feel like these ideas would probably make some fans here cringe, but I'm just trying to communicate that Kara being Supergirl but from another dimension, but not presenting herself as Supergirl makes someone with a very accessible personality, become really hard to grasp.

Honestly, my first reaction to her years ago was "Who is she and why is she wearing that costume?"

My second reaction was "wait, why do we need a Supergirl from another dimension? We already have one in this dimension."

And then I actually read some stories where she appeared and quite liked her personality, but nothing about her origin made sense to me, it felt so unnecessary.

She's the kind of character that requires so much set up before hand. First you need to know about Superman and his world. Then you need to know about Supergirl. Then you need to know about how the DC multiverse works and how it has been destroyed over the decades. Then you actually get to know Kara Zor-l. Then you learn the reasons why she feels so distant from the Superman family and the Symbol/ colors. Then you learn about her creating a new path in this world, both as a Superhero and in the world of corporations. And even after learning all of this, most of it makes it harder to enjoy all the unnecessary elements in her story that got us into this great place.

Easy plot hook to make Powergirl estranged: The house of El is associated with the Science Council. Having Powergirl decide to join the military would give her a plot hook for being separated from the rest of her family for many years. Also you could copy Karsta Wor-Ul's explanation for why she survived Krypton. Karsta was a member of the Kryptonian military who ignored the order to return to Krypton that caused the majority to get killed in the planet's explosion. This would also fit with how her personality is more aggressive.

[Alpha]

Easy plot hook to make Powergirl estranged: The house of El is associated with the Science Council. Having Powergirl decide to join the military would give her a plot hook for being separated from the rest of her family for many years. Also you could copy Karsta Wor-Ul's explanation for why she survived Krypton. Karsta was a member of the Kryptonian military who ignored the order to return to Krypton that caused the majority to get killed in the planet's explosion. This would also fit with how her personality is more aggressive.

Sure, I think that makes a lot of sense.

I think Powergil superfans would still hate these big changes, but I'm really curious to hear what they think. It doesn't come from a lack of appreciation for the character, just from someone who still doesn't understand why she needs to have such a complex history that makes it nearly impossible for adaptations.

[Ascended]

I think Powergil superfans would still hate these big changes, but I'm really curious to hear what they think. It doesn't come from a lack of appreciation for the character, just from someone who still doesn't understand why she needs to have such a complex history that makes it nearly impossible for adaptations.

Speaking just for my own PG fandom, my issue with changes like this is that it misses the actual problem. It's not that Karen is too similar to Supergirl, or that her origin and backstory are too complex. The problem is that *DC* thinks the problem is a complex origin and Supergirl redundancy.

Karen's origin is not complicated. She was the Supergirl proxy on another earth, and when her universe died she ended up in the main DCU. It's a simple origin, and a simple premise with lots of ways to develop and advance the concept.

As for the Supergirl redundancy, what do they actually have in common? Different ages, different builds, different personalities. Different skills, different fighting styles. Different histories, different relationships....the things these two share are easily overshadowed by all the things they don't.

You can take the multiverse stuff out of PG's history, or make any other change you can think of, but DC will still view the character as redundant and pointless and she'll still get the same kind of treatment. Their perspective is the problem. Change their opinion on Karen and you don't need to change anything about the character.

And before anyone says "a big change might get DC to invest a little and push her, and wouldn't that be better than limbo?" let's not forget that DC already did this in Infinite Crisis; the big change was wildly more popular than what came before, and it quickly led to big roles in two team books and a solo. And she was successful. Not a sales super star but a consistent, solid, respectable seller. But when DC decided to reboot, Karen got shuffled off to a book all of us recognized as exile with a small chance of parole, while Supergirl got the lion's share of their effort and attention. So making a big change has been proven to not work beyond a quick honeymoon period and I'm just not interested in uprooting Karen's entire character just for the short-lived high of seeing DC give half a damn.

[Alpha]

Couldn't this dynamic we were discussing between "Karen" and "Kara" add more than enough interest for both characters? A military cadet that abandoned her family of scientists to go fight for a cause, and then lost that family. Her younger sister that resented her for this. They reunite after many decades but are both living completely new lives and have a hard time letting go of the past. There are so many avenues you could go with this. I think it highlights the specific character traits and conflicts of both characters. Even if we skip forward in time after they "resolved their issues" it would still provide a nuance to both of them and create an interesting counter point to each other. The more I think about it the more I think it makes sense for Kara to have an older sister that survived decades in space, and for Karen to have a younger sister she has some difficulty talking to.


As far as her being complex, I'm not saying that the sequence of events itself is complex, I'm saying that the emotional journey she went through is far more complex when you add the fact that she is an interdimensional refugee with a whole history as a superhero in that other universe, and who somehow became a CEO in this one universe and exists in a world with a much more famous identical copy and a younger cousin, neither of which she has a relationship with. It's much more complex than you make it out to be.

Why is she a CEO? Why did she come to this universe? How did she become Power Girl?

The answers to all of these questions are waaayy too long and don't really come from a clear sequence of events.

And from an outside perspective it doesn't really make sense for there to be another copy of Supergirl running around without having anything to do with her or with Superman. Heck, her being from another universe doesn't even have anything to do with the stories told with her. Booster Gold for example also doesn't have anything to do with the Legion stories, but the fact that he came from the future to become a celebrity is still intrinsical to what he does to this day.

[Superlad93]

"the one who gave up on his ideals and proved absolute powers corrupt absolutely."

But it didn't. Morrison's book was written, and clearly Clark wasn't corrupted.

Moreover, I don't blame Snyder or the rest for wanting to jump ship. DC pays dogshit and you don't own anything so when you're old, all your work gets you is "special thanks."

Throwing a tantrum and basically saying "nononononono" while holding your hands to your ears while your boss and your boss's boss and their boss's boss have a plan in place for the things THEY own and your are compensated to write is a tantrum and a they share some blame for that. That's just gross. And Snyder being a drama queen who would have shouting matches with DiDio when he wouldn't get his way is why I'm not sympatric towards him. I can only imagine the fit he pitched when he got told Bruce wasn't going to be Batman anymore or whatever.

They're at DC because they love the characters and stories which Dan was actively trampling on to try something new.

That is incredibly subjective, and an oversimplification when obviously it's an ongoing story with characters that change and learn. The idea of acknowledging Clark, Bruce, and Diana as, yes, being from a bygone era and that starting to really show its age (especially in the face of mass media and Marvel movies showing their modern contrast to the self-indulgence of DC's inherent mythic feel), and that just like in the real world, yeah, maybe the older generation wasn't all that right, and now they've left us with a mess to clean up. But also, hey, it's never actually too late to learn a lesson and grow because you're still here and you can still leave the place better than you saw it.

To me that's not trampling. To me that's an honest look that takes their histories into account and links it to the real world.

On the subject of Morrison, the secret seems to be to present them a Gordian knot and say "fix it." Superman and the Authority was good but not revolutionary. I don't really think that's emblematic of Didio getting gold from Morrison who, by all accounts, generally was just told "we're fucked, figure something out" and they say "no no no no no alright you talked me into it."

The thing is, I'm actually sure DiDio's original idea was never supposed to make it to the page, but rather be a writing prompt for whoever got the job. Just look at the idea of Jon shrinking the city. What we saw in Future State is CONFIRMED not to be how it was supposed to go down in 5G. The writer for Future State said that it was something he needed to figure out and that it was a prompt given to him.

What you're getting mad over with the "authoritarian" Clark thing is essentially a prompt. Not even the skeleton of a story, but rather the suggestion of an idea. What we got was what DiDio was happy with. If he was so hell bent on authoritarian Clark being exactly what the prompt suggested then he wouldn't have taken Morrison pitch.

You can actually see concept art of The Authority from 5G online that isn't Morrison's. It has a Doctor Manhattan in that version and a far more stern faced Clark. So clearly DiDio was getting pitches from more than just Morrison, and they even seemed to be more in line with the prompt. Yet he went with one that used the prompt but didn't adhere to it so tightly.

This goes back to his quote to Ennis about trying to shake people of that "when I was 5" feel for Superman. That prompt would force whoever came on to write something that inherently wasn't that. But clearly DiDio still knows that Clark has to be Clark, and with that he came away with a Morrison pitch that had Grant "All Star Superman" Morrison NOT doing All Star and flexing new muscles with the character. To me that's a very smart move, and some creators simply failed to not take it at face value.