Controversial Superman Opinions

[Jon Clark]

Eh, what's it to me if Superman III exists? I don't have to watch it, or engage in conversations about it if I don't want to. Besides, success breeds success. The more content we get, the higher the odds that I'll enjoy some of it. Look at what we got now, and all the variety at our fingertips; from Smash the Space Age to Lost and everything in-between, I don't believe there can be a Super fan left on earth who didn't enjoy 'something' from the last few years. Maybe you're not a fan of DC Super Hero Girls or that CW show, but they helped make new Supergirl fans, and they gave their money to DC too, and now there's new comics for Kara, and a movie in a few years, etc.

Problem is that success also results in more of the same.

It's great if you like the latest take on Superman when every creative team follows in that trend.. Not so great if the Superman that gets the attention is not your cup of tea, but every creative team for the forseeable future follows that trend.

I saw a lot of comment s on the Titans mini last week complaining about how the Titans Go series has replaced the other takes on Raven. And I can see having a problem if some of the tropes from My Adventures with Superman replaced the more classic elements. Because based on experience DC won't put out more diverse Superman material, but will try to make what Superman material is released closer to the cartoon.

Superman II's slapstick led to Superman III and Superman IV leaning more into comedy and less into character driven stories. Taking the wrong lessons from Burton's Batman led to the Kilmer and Clooney films. Heck, even the popularity of Dark Knight trilogy of films (which were good) got us 2013's Man of Steel .

[Agent Z]

Problem is that success also results in more of the same.

It's great if you like the latest take on Superman when every creative team follows in that trend.. Not so great if the Superman that gets the attention is not your cup of tea, but every creative team for the forseeable future follows that trend.

I saw a lot of comment s on the Titans mini last week complaining about how the Titans Go series has replaced the other takes on Raven. And I can see having a problem if some of the tropes from My Adventures with Superman replaced the more classic elements. Because based on experience DC won't put out more diverse Superman material, but will try to make what Superman material is released closer to the cartoon.

Superman II's slapstick led to Superman III and Superman IV leaning more into comedy and less into character driven stories. Taking the wrong lessons from Burton's Batman led to the Kilmer and Clooney films. Heck, even the popularity of Dark Knight trilogy of films (which were good) got us 2013's Man of Steel .

DC doesn't really do synergy like that often. Justice League Action came out while the DCEU was still going on and was very different. Superman Returns was nothing like Smallville.

Man of Steel has more in common with Smallville than the Nolan Batman films if anything.

[Kuwagaton]

Problem is that success also results in more of the same.

Right, there's the voting aspect 1. because this industry should and does cling to a well where money is found and 2. Some fan of some popular thing will always find their way aboard. Johns even brought in the whole Donner himself to make sure that sentiment wasn't lost.

Speaking of those movies and that era, I have to say the worst thing is that around 2005, all of that stuff had the "slapstick" drained out. If Superman doesn't seem sort of funny, then to me something is missing.

[Ascended]

Problem is that success also results in more of the same.

Sure, that's a concern. Success breeds imitation as well as success. But imitation runs in cycles and there's always 'some' variety on offer, if for no other reason than a creator wants to stand out from the crowd.

[manwhohaseverything]

I tend to believe if you are a creative you would want to do your own take. Rather than cling to some perception.But suits would rather do the same because it's more guarantee of bringing in money from the built in franchise.There are also fan writers who just want to write something from their memory of the character like waid.problem is not allowing creatives to write their elsewords.For eg,the boys could have easily been done with justice league.

[Kuwagaton]

Well, it's a corporate property. You need a particular reason for the legroom to deviate that suits them. Just like say, Oda can enforce what goes into light novels or anime regardless of how "creative" the hands are. He owns it and the property simply must work for him.

Mark Schultz stepped on and mentioned how surprised he was that DC gave him so much space, especially considering the era. Granted I think Cavalieri was underrated, and Schultz himself is underrated for doing that incredible job of just stepping into the mainline with both feet. Seriously talented creator in general.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well, it's a corporate property. You need a particular reason for the legroom to deviate that suits them. Just like say, Oda can enforce what goes into light novels or anime regardless of how "creative" the hands are. He owns it and the property simply must work for him.

Mark Schultz stepped on and mentioned how surprised he was that DC gave him so much space, especially considering the era. Granted I think Cavalieri was underrated, and Schultz himself is underrated for doing that incredible job of just stepping into the mainline with both feet. Seriously talented creator in general.

Oda is the creative and as well as creator in the case of one piece.That's difference there.He is not a suit.I am not saying a creative person shouldn't get control over his property.I am noy saying he should or shouldn't be allowed to dictate what goes and what not.I am saying the reverse.It should be a creative person that controls his property.Not some guy who crunches numbers.After he goes away these characters and stories should democratised.

I mean,it doesn't business sense as well since the creatives would simply make pastiche and the people would buy that.I mean,the amount of superman pastiche are insane.Many of em are freaking cool as well like music man or metro man.Megamind could easily be lex and clark.Yet,all the money doesn't go to wb.

[The Frog Bros]

Well, it's a corporate property. You need a particular reason for the legroom to deviate that suits them. Just like say, Oda can enforce what goes into light novels or anime regardless of how "creative" the hands are. He owns it and the property simply must work for him.

Mark Schultz stepped on and mentioned how surprised he was that DC gave him so much space, especially considering the era. Granted I think Cavalieri was underrated, and Schultz himself is underrated for doing that incredible job of just stepping into the mainline with both feet. Seriously talented creator in general.

Although I wasn’t reading it at the time (had stopped reading comics at that point in time), the Schultz MoS is among my personal faves now after reading the back issue floppies. Thought he was pretty great. And Mahnke on art to boot!

[DochaDocha]

Speaking of those movies and that era, I have to say the worst thing is that around 2005, all of that stuff had the "slapstick" drained out. If Superman doesn't seem sort of funny, then to me something is missing.

Agreed. A young, developing Superman is ripe with potential for physical comedy. Take, for example, all the screw-ups Tony Stark had to go through in the initial testing phases of his various suits. Or when Tobey Spider-man was testing his powers. Because Superman is so durable, you can make funnier, more embarrassing moments for Supes when his powers don't work as expected the first few times he tries them out. Man of Steel very lightly goes into this when his first flight attempt ends somewhat clumsily, and that's great and all, but I find it's a missed opportunity if you forget a random bystander would be LOLing so long as the mishap didn't cross the threshold from comedy to tragedy.

There are other ways to inject physical and other comedy into Superman. I like the "realistic" take on Superman but not at the expense of comedy (the real world can be hiliarous, too...).

[Agent Z]

Smallville had plenty of comedic moments.

[manwhohaseverything]

I agree about the lack of humour being detrimental to the character.

Smallville had plenty of comedic moments.

Not just any comedy.I would say comedy with a point would go a long way.

[Agent Z]

I agree about the lack of humour being detrimental to the character.

Not just any comedy.I would say comedy with a point would go a long way.

Again, it had those. It just wasn't the main focus.

[Kuwagaton]

Although I wasn’t reading it at the time (had stopped reading comics at that point in time), the Schultz MoS is among my personal faves now after reading the back issue floppies. Thought he was pretty great. And Mahnke on art to boot!

Yeah I've always been a Mahnke fan. I think the only art Schultz did was the IC era triptych

Agreed. A young, developing Superman is ripe with potential for physical comedy. Take, for example, all the screw-ups Tony Stark had to go through in the initial testing phases of his various suits. Or when Tobey Spider-man was testing his powers. Because Superman is so durable, you can make funnier, more embarrassing moments for Supes when his powers don't work as expected the first few times he tries them out. Man of Steel very lightly goes into this when his first flight attempt ends somewhat clumsily, and that's great and all, but I find it's a missed opportunity if you forget a random bystander would be LOLing so long as the mishap didn't cross the threshold from comedy to tragedy.

There are other ways to inject physical and other comedy into Superman. I like the "realistic" take on Superman but not at the expense of comedy (the real world can be hiliarous, too...).

I don't think humor is limited to a young Superman, though. I mean it's hard to say that through the 50s and 60s he even offered much else in the way of other genres.

[manwhohaseverything]

Again, it had those. It just wasn't the main focus.

Did it?i think i watched smallville atleast 3 or 4 times(not fully ofcourse).i just don't remember anything not worthy.There was that episode where clark spurts(wink!) Laser beams cause of a teacher.But that's about it.

Speaking smallville,i was looking for a convo between lex and clark in the show where lex talks about ending up with a savior complex.If anyone remembers what epi..would be much appreciated.

[The World]

Weren't the Post Crisis guys against so called Silver Age goofiness and wanted more mature storytelling. Isn't that why they were all favor of getting rid of the super pets and Superboy, the extraneous superpowers.