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  1. #4621
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Who does call himself a defender of public good?
    Superman does.


    Outlaws remember.They did what they thought was right.That is it.They didn't have public support many of the time.
    "Spiderman is a menace"
    That's a perfectly valid position to take.
    Not all superheroes are treated as outlaws and Superman doesn't go out of his way to act as one.

  2. #4622
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman does.




    Not all superheroes are treated as outlaws and Superman doesn't go out of his way to act as one.
    Ofcourse he did.my point earlier that clark is either a goofy guy wearing underpants on the outside or a savior is proved.

    You don't need to go out of your way to be an outlaw.Who wants to be that anyways.Just where you come from might skew you in that direction and how you react to certain situations.that's that.

    i was saying superman wasn't a superhero once upon a time.Nor did he act like one.He was very much an outlaw.Superhero superman doesn't need a secret id.The 30s style pulp hero supes does.So people are just clinging to the vestages of a character that doesn't exist anymore and ain't integral to the character.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-30-2021 at 12:53 AM.
    "People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"

  3. #4623
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Ofcourse he did.my point earlier that clark is either a goofy guy wearing underpants on the outside or a savior is proved.

    You don't need to go out of your way to be an outlaw.Who wants to be that anyways.Just where you come from might skew you in that direction and how you react to certain situations.that's that.

    i was saying superman wasn't a superhero once upon a time.Nor did he act like one.He was very much an outlaw.Superhero superman doesn't need a secret id.The 30s style pulp hero supes does.So people are just clinging to the vestages of a character that doesn't exist anymore and ain't integral to the character.
    I think you're confusing Superman with someone else entirely.

  4. #4624
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    Tbh I don't really understand the obsession with Superman worry about his public image. Like wtf does that have to do with doing what's right?
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  5. #4625
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I think you're confusing Superman with someone else entirely.
    I don't know.Maybe.All i know is, i am a sucker for the noble outlaws as a concept..
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-30-2021 at 06:55 AM.
    "People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"

  6. #4626
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I don't know.Maybe.All i know is, i am a sucker for the noble outlaws as a concept..
    You posted a pic of Red Hood with a gun to the back of Bizarro's head and called that moment a "hero" imagery, I'm curious to know how you draw that conclusion.

  7. #4627
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    Tbh I don't really understand the obsession with Superman worry about his public image. Like wtf does that have to do with doing what's right?
    The two are not always mutually exclusive.

    A certain ex-president didn't care much about his public image either.

  8. #4628
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I think the importance of public image is that it's a proxy measure for trust. Superman probably wants the people (in general) to trust that what he's doing is what's right, and that's a hard message to convey when people don't know what your motivations are or even who you are.

  9. #4629
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    You posted a pic of Red Hood with a gun to the back of Bizarro's head and called that moment a "hero" imagery, I'm curious to know how you draw that conclusion.
    I didn't mean hero imagery.it's more of an outlaw imagery where the protagonist with a history mulls killing his new found friend due to reasons(here bizarro's powers and his condition being volatile).I guess hero would be wrong word.Protagonist would be it.Pulp fiction protagonists like doc savage or zorro.I can post a pic superman smashing a car.We would think the guy is a villain,"bad" guy...etc.(He can very well be)

    But then you get to know why he does what he does.

    He still breaks the law.He still threatens an entire city.He still does property damage..Superman as an outlaw doesn't heed conventional morality and wouldn't be much of a superhero.But then more people die due to reckless drivers who don't heed the rules,corrupt officials not enforcing law causing more suffering.So there is something heroic about it.The intent to go against conventional do's and don'ts of morality,law and order..etc inorder to do the right thing.That's heroic.Since you asked.
    "People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"

  10. #4630
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    There needs to be more Black Label Superman stuff.
    "I always have time for a citizen of Metropolis."

  11. #4631
    Incredible Member The Frog Bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    There needs to be more Black Label Superman stuff.
    Yeah. So far there's been the Miller book and the current Seeley Lobo book, but that's it, right?

    Then there's the Waid/Hitch book coming out next year?

    Endless opportunities for Elseworld type stories. It's the perfect vehicle for a horror themed story. Need to bug Ram V to get something going
    “Look, you can’t put the Superman #77s with the #200s. They haven’t even discovered Red Kryptonite yet. And you can’t put the #98s with the #300s, Lori Lemaris hasn’t even been introduced.” — Sam
    “Where the hell are you from? Krypton?” — Edgar Frog

  12. #4632
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I didn't mean hero imagery.it's more of an outlaw imagery where the protagonist with a history mulls killing his new found friend due to reasons(here bizarro's powers and his condition being volatile).I guess hero would be wrong word.Protagonist would be it.Pulp fiction protagonists like doc savage or zorro.I can post a pic superman smashing a car.We would think the guy is a villain,"bad" guy...etc.(He can very well be)

    But then you get to know why he does what he does.

    He still breaks the law.He still threatens an entire city.He still does property damage..Superman as an outlaw doesn't heed conventional morality and wouldn't be much of a superhero.But then more people die due to reckless drivers who don't heed the rules,corrupt officials not enforcing law causing more suffering.So there is something heroic about it.The intent to go against conventional do's and don'ts of morality,law and order..etc inorder to do the right thing.That's heroic.Since you asked.
    Going against conventional morality does not inherently make you a hero. If that were the case then every villain is also a hero.

  13. #4633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Going against conventional morality does not inherently make you a hero. If that were the case then every villain is also a hero.
    Remember- the villain is the hero of their own story.

    And manwhohaseverything is more pointing to how the early Superman was less concerned with following the rules than with accomplishing good. His Superman would have toppled Luthor quickly, not spent years wringing his hands while Lex hid behind legal loopholes, public support and plausible deniability. It's an attitude that says if something is wrong, you stop it whether or not you have popular support. Whether that is the action of a hero or a villain is in the eye of the beholder. If I take a house someone has spent years fixing up and give it to a homeless family- am I a hero (for helping the poor) or a villain (stealing something someone else owns and put effort into)? The early Superman would have followed his conscience- the modern Kal-El would more likely let the law (or the people) decide

  14. #4634
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Bisexual Clark is a big thing to me. I've thought of him as bi since like 2007 or so.
    Ah.....then I guess my real controversial one is I support full gay Clark....

  15. #4635
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    There needs to be more Black Label Superman stuff.
    Kind of surprised they didn't just put that World of Krypton mini under BL.

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