Controversial Superman Opinions

[DochaDocha]

Superman can do "cool" stuff that's really demeaning to the crooks who stand no chance against him.

For instance,



Pause it at the 0:35 mark to see Grodd's epiphany.

Also, here's a similar moment in Lois & Clark.

I don't think Lois & Clark aged all that well, but I liked some of the little things they did to show you the only reason why you can hang or compete with Superman is because he's letting you.

[phantom1592]

A lot of people give Clark flack for keeping his identity as Superman secret from others but I see no problem with it. He owes no one the knowledge of knowing his secret, it's his right to keep it to himself. This idea that Clark is in the wrong because he kept his identity from Lois or Perry or Jimmy or anyone else is baffling, as if its their right to know. Just because someone has close friends or coworkers that doesn't entitle them to know every intimate or personal thing about the individual. Even being in a relationship doesn't mean the other person has to know your most guarded secrets. Relationships can end, they can end badly and then their is someone out there who knows your secret and has possible bad intentions towards you. The only caveat is if marriage is a strong possibility, in that instance then yes; one should share their secret if they intend to ask someone to commit and spend their lives together. Anything short of that then no one needs to share anything they don't want to. Clark was perfectly in the right to keep his secret to himself and it was his choice to share it when he did. Even if someone(Lois) suspected or "figured it out" he was/is under no obligation to confirm it. Superheroes keeping their secret identities secret from others is perfectly fine, its no one's right to know.

Agree 100%. Honestly there are so many DOWNSIDES to telling people and almost zero upsides. Knowing secrets like that is an EXTREME responsibility that most people just aren't up for.

You end up with situations like this in when Daredevil was fighting someone (Hulk I think....)




I think my favorite version was from Smallville when Pete found out and thought it was cool... Then by the next season he was seriously ticked off being the 'only one who knew' and having to keep that secret himself. Eventually he just bailed on Kansas after he got the crap beat out of him because someone 'knew he knew SOMETHING...' He resented Clark for ever telling him and wished he never knew anything. The secret was a burden.

Now add in how many times your girlfriends break up badly... get used for hostages... or become supervillains.... and it's just down right STUPID to spill those kind of secrets early in a relationship.

If they are dating, and it's serious dating that is going to lead to more intimacy, then he should absolutely tell her before it reaches that point because it gets skeevy otherwise.

Other than that, I agree that he isn't under an obligation to tell her (or anyone else) if they are just casual friends.

I will say that once sex starts getting involved... it should be stated. I absolutely hate HATE HATED that Superman/Doomsday cartoon where He's taking Lois back to his fortress and banging her all the while she has no idea he's Clark... that's just... ughhh…

Comics did a good job where he says... Yeah, we're getting engaged, now it's time you know everything... but the idea of Superman and casual sex bugs me to no end anyway... but making her think she's making Clark jealous at the time... just no....

[rpmaluki]

Best intimidation I've seen from Superman in a long while was in one of the recent Bendis issues where he shakes down STAR Labs.

All he does is float above the lab, arms crossed, looking pissed. And that is it. He doesn't do or say anything. And it starts to freak all the scientists out. What's he planning? Why's he just floating there? Holy crap, can he read minds? Are his eyes glowing? Is he giving us space cancer? Oh sh*t, I can't go to jail I have kids and college loans! F*ck he's still just floating there! What does he want???!!!

And just like that, the entire building empties out and they surrender.

That's how Superman intimidates someone.

I think that's how you play it. With Batman, it's the threat of physical violence. He'll leave you in the hospital with shattered bones. Superman? Once he starts glaring at you, you're forced to remember that he's not human. He looks like us but you can't really know what's in his head. And what're you gonna do against him? You can't hurt him. You've seen big monsters like Metallo try to hurt him on the news, and it never works. You can't stop him. He's the immovable object *and* the unstoppable force. And when he's just staring at you.....maybe you start to wonder, he's got so many powers...are there some he's kept secret?

The interesting thing with this is, there are some people who Batman can't intimidate; they're not scared of pain and that's generally all Batman uses in his intimidation; force and the threat of force. But Superman will scare them because it's not pain he's threatening them with, it's the unknown factors they dream up in their own heads about his alien-ness. But there's people who know (or at least believe) that Superman won't hurt them. So those guys, Clark can't intimidate....but Batman can.

There was also all that looting that went on when the planet was in the phantom zone and he simply floated over the masses and the next moment the stopped and returned all the stolen stuff. He can be intimidating without the fanfare/theatrics. It's in these clever and quiet moments that I find it most effective and enjoyable.

[Ascended]

I'm totally with you. I don't need to see Clark acting all alpha and sticking his chest out in some high school display of machismo. "The greatest samurai lets his sword rust in its sheath" and all that.

I'm pretty sure those STAR scientists were scared out of their minds though. And Clark knew exactly what he was doing. It's intimidation. And yeah, it's a little Space Jesus-y, but only insofar as it's an authority figure giving you that "I'm mad, but mostly disappointed, and you're very much grounded forever" look. That's kind of a universal language. I got that look as a kid, now as a parent I give that look (K, how's your kid, btw?). It's not Clark being all holier than thou and pandering and preachy like Action 775.

I suppose there's also the "red eyed angry god" intimidation too. When Clark has really just had enough and is ready to seriously hurt someone and you can almost see him holding himself back. And that's scary. Knowing what he's capable of, the glowing eyes, everything around Clark starting to melt from the heat....that's scary. But that's something you almost never really see. What's the thing from Dr. Who...."When a good man goes to war." It's not really "Clark" so much as the situation, yknow? Clark with his arms crossed and that angry, disappointed look on his face is much more his style of intimidation than clenched fists and red eyes and the open threat of violence.

[rpmaluki]

Agree 100%. Honestly there are so many DOWNSIDES to telling people and almost zero upsides. Knowing secrets like that is an EXTREME responsibility that most people just aren't up for.

You end up with situations like this in when Daredevil was fighting someone (Hulk I think....)




I think my favorite version was from Smallville when Pete found out and thought it was cool... Then by the next season he was seriously ticked off being the 'only one who knew' and having to keep that secret himself. Eventually he just bailed on Kansas after he got the crap beat out of him because someone 'knew he knew SOMETHING...' He resented Clark for ever telling him and wished he never knew anything. The secret was a burden.

Now add in how many times your girlfriends break up badly... get used for hostages... or become supervillains.... and it's just down right STUPID to spill those kind of secrets early in a relationship.






I will say that once sex starts getting involved... it should be stated. I absolutely hate HATE HATED that Superman/Doomsday cartoon where He's taking Lois back to his fortress and banging her all the while she has no idea he's Clark... that's just... ughhh…

Comics did a good job where he says... Yeah, we're getting engaged, now it's time you know everything... but the idea of Superman and casual sex bugs me to no end anyway... but making her think she's making Clark jealous at the time... just no....

It's interesting to see different people handle the secret differently. Some will be relieved while others are burdened and perhaps others even resentful. Clark doesn't owe anyone the truth but I do think getting married and wanting to share his life with someone should warrant some honesty on his part. I'm probably one of the few people enjoying this new reveal at the moment and that is more because it was Clark's decision to tell the truth about who he is. And there will be those relieved, resentful and angry about it because how can they not be? I would like every beat of this story played out before its rolled back and shuffled back in the closet to begin again at the beginning.

[DochaDocha]

I will say that once sex starts getting involved... it should be stated. I absolutely hate HATE HATED that Superman/Doomsday cartoon where He's taking Lois back to his fortress and banging her all the while she has no idea he's Clark... that's just... ughhh…

Minor correction, but Lois did know. She was rather annoyed that Superman wouldn't tell her he's Clark Kent. At the end, when Superman finally revealed he's Clark, she was happy.

[marhawkman]

I'm totally with you. I don't need to see Clark acting all alpha and sticking his chest out in some high school display of machismo. "The greatest samurai lets his sword rust in its sheath" and all that.

I'm pretty sure those STAR scientists were scared out of their minds though. And Clark knew exactly what he was doing. It's intimidation. And yeah, it's a little Space Jesus-y, but only insofar as it's an authority figure giving you that "I'm mad, but mostly disappointed, and you're very much grounded forever" look. That's kind of a universal language. I got that look as a kid, now as a parent I give that look (K, how's your kid, btw?). It's not Clark being all holier than thou and pandering and preachy like Action 775.

I suppose there's also the "red eyed angry god" intimidation too. When Clark has really just had enough and is ready to seriously hurt someone and you can almost see him holding himself back. And that's scary. Knowing what he's capable of, the glowing eyes, everything around Clark starting to melt from the heat....that's scary. But that's something you almost never really see. What's the thing from Dr. Who...."When a good man goes to war." It's not really "Clark" so much as the situation, yknow? Clark with his arms crossed and that angry, disappointed look on his face is much more his style of intimidation than clenched fists and red eyes and the open threat of violence.

S218-18.jpg
That fight utterly terrified everyone, including Blackrock.

[manwhohaseverything]

That fight utterly terrified everyone, including Blackrock.

Precisely, the guy has issues. He can get lost in the moment.Get angry or feel exhilaration of physical prowess.

He can also be quite creepy as well.

Shying away from that is bad. Superman smashing the car was such a moment. Imagine being able to lift a car. The exhilaration of being able to do anything with it,so he smashes it to bits. Then imagine being pissed of, seeing the dread in the enemies eye and feeling the twinge of satisfaction. Then when he turns around he sees lois horrified. That's when his demeanour changes. If clark does not have anger, fear.. Etc.he is just written badly.

[manwhohaseverything]

Alan's moore's superman comic does a pretty damn good job of these things. Look at jason he is basically stammering with fear.



The modern idea of taking the fangs out superman is just ridiculous. Why shouldn't the guu be dangerous or absolutely a beast?He isn't trying to be something he is not like batman. He is being himself. Which is what should be done more. His morality comes from his conscience. He realises he was at the edge of losing control, so he stops himself. He tames himself. That doesn't mean shouldn't be written as the absolute beast he is.

[Agent Z]

I think my favorite version was from Smallville when Pete found out and thought it was cool... Then by the next season he was seriously ticked off being the 'only one who knew' and having to keep that secret himself. Eventually he just bailed on Kansas after he got the crap beat out of him because someone 'knew he knew SOMETHING...' He resented Clark for ever telling him and wished he never knew anything. The secret was a burden.

It wouldn't have been one if Clark had shared his secret with more than one person. Most of the problems with Clark's secret where entirely of his own making.

Now add in how many times your girlfriends break up badly... get used for hostages... or become supervillains.... and it's just down right STUPID to spill those kind of secrets early in a relationship.

How many times has this happened to Superman? The one person in his life who became a super villain is Lex Luthor.

[Kuwagaton]

Agree 100%. Honestly there are so many DOWNSIDES to telling people and almost zero upsides. Knowing secrets like that is an EXTREME responsibility that most people just aren't up for.

You end up with situations like this in when Daredevil was fighting someone (Hulk I think....)

Haha, yeah, DD is the legendary poster boy. Heather committed suicide, Milla was committed to an institution, Karen went through... everything.

The modern idea of taking the fangs out superman is just ridiculous.

I think this is a common notion, that he's been defanged in "modern times" but that scene is already after CoIE, which is what I'd consider to be the shortest Superman has ever come up as a force of reckoning.

[The World]

I guess because it's not aggressive I didn't see it as intimidation, but the STAR scene was a nice bit. The challenging and unique thing about Superman to me isn't the potential of forceful consequences but that he has legitimate disappointment when you do something dumb. Maybe that veers a little too into the "space Jesus" thing the way I say it but I think it's the same with any good cop or legal defender, wanting to see you get your crap together. I think it's a pretty unique challenge to write a two fisted genre where the main guy doesn't get by as overly intimidating when he should be especially.

Maybe people want to see him be "cool" more often than I do. I mean they get to see Batman or Deadpool be cool all day and it's been all success. At least Superman is more often than not, still. The craziest quips to me come when he's flattened someone out and gives the impression that he's not unwilling to be friends. Losing to a guy who gives you a chance is pretty rough.

I don't really care about him being cool or not myself but I also see that saying alot about "Superman never was cool so you shouldn't try to make him". I must have saw that phrase about a half million times when the N52 dropped along with "kewl" but I think even a blind man would say Golden Age Supes was a lot cooler than Modern Supes. He just has characteristics more people envy while Post-Crisis Superman really only had powers people envied even if they appreciated his existence.

I've noticed a lot of people that seemed to prefer Post-Crisis Superman kind of need a distraction from him at the same time. They need the marriage, The Kents, and now Jon because there really isn't much going on in the modern guys head. You just can't do much with him because his character is fairly limited and that's kind of modern ideology; every character should have a certain role they play and should stay within the parameters of that role. So yeah you get characters that are all very clearly different from each other but they're much more limited in utility that their Pre-Crisis selves imo. It plays out pretty clear in the clip Docha played Batman's schtick is that he's intimidating, so Superman ,a character played as Batman's opposite is a cupcake. Almost more like a boy band or something, sensitive one, bad boy, jokester, etc.

[Yoda]

This is all because of Frank Miller's bullshit honestly. It's not a complaint about Superman, it's a complaint about the "idea" of Superman perpetuated by pop culture and based on DKR's character assassination. There are plenty of examples of Post Crisis Superman being intimidating or angry or "scary."

[stargazer01]

Superman should totally act intimidating with the bad guys. They should be afraid of him, especially if he gets all serious and acts annoyed by their criminal acts. I loved that part in Superman The Movie when he is stopping criminals during his first day in Metropolis. He was not asking them nicely to stop. In Superman Returns too during the bullet to the eye scene. I thought he was very cool.

[SiegePerilous02]

It wouldn't have been one if Clark had shared his secret with more than one person. Most of the problems with Clark's secret where entirely of his own making.

They are kinda his own fault, but that's actually one of his more interesting, neurotic flaws.