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  1. #2131
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    No live action Superman show has been nearly as good as any Star Trek show. I haven't seen Discovery, but the Superman shows can't touch Trek from the 80s and 90s. As a huge fan of both franchises, that saddens me. Trek shows have been so much better written and consistent.

    I have to say, Krypton show on Syfy came very close.

  2. #2132
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Superman shouldn't have a son/kid in main continuity.
    Blasphemy I know.

  3. #2133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Superman shouldn't have a son/kid in main continuity.
    Blasphemy I know.
    I totally agree!! As a lifelong Superman fan, I think that's what makes him so endearing and heroic; i.e. the fact that he sacrifices his own personal happiness to want to settle down and raise a family over his life long dedication to his role as humanity's saviour and protector. Not to mention that it should in fact be impossible for him to be intimate with a human, because of how fragile we are compared to him. So if a human woman were to sleep with Superman, it would almost certainly be fatal for the woman. I loved that Dick Donner made a point of this in Superman 2; for Superman to want to have an intimate relationship with a human woman he would have to relinquish his powers.
    Last edited by fan_of_the_messiah; 01-21-2020 at 03:24 PM.

  4. #2134
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Superman shouldn't have a son/kid in main continuity.
    Blasphemy I know.
    Ha itís fair to remember that far from being blasphemy, that attitude was the default attitude of Post Crisis. Supes was a Kryptonian and thus could never have a kid with a normal human like Lois through natural means. Lex used to taunt him about that iirc.

  5. #2135
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Superman shouldn't have a son/kid in main continuity.
    Blasphemy I know.
    Co-signed. I've liked Elseworlds where he had a son, e.g. "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" but not digging this status quo.

  6. #2136
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    No live action Superman show has been nearly as good as any Star Trek show. I haven't seen Discovery, but the Superman shows can't touch Trek from the 80s and 90s. As a huge fan of both franchises, that saddens me. Trek shows have been so much better written and consistent.

    I have to say, Krypton show on Syfy came very close.
    Discovery is excellent. At first glance you might think it doesn't belong and misses the point of Trek (it deals with a slightly shadier side of the Federation that we've usually only seen hints of), but if you give it the benefit of the doubt I suspect you'll be hooked by episode 3 or 4.

    The first two seasons are out on blu-ray so you don't have to have CBS All-Access. I watch the show with a friend who is a hardcore, old school Trekkie. Does not like the new movies, has a very....defined....idea of what Trek should be (and I'm not much more forgiving, honestly). And looking at trailers and stuff he thought he'd hate Discovery. Now, he's a grumpy, cranky old bastard fan who hates anything new simply because it's new, and I almost had to force him to give Discovery a try. And it took a couple episodes, but he loves it. Even he admits that this is worthy of Roddenberry in every way.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  7. #2137
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Discovery is excellent. At first glance you might think it doesn't belong and misses the point of Trek (it deals with a slightly shadier side of the Federation that we've usually only seen hints of), but if you give it the benefit of the doubt I suspect you'll be hooked by episode 3 or 4.

    The first two seasons are out on blu-ray so you don't have to have CBS All-Access. I watch the show with a friend who is a hardcore, old school Trekkie. Does not like the new movies, has a very....defined....idea of what Trek should be (and I'm not much more forgiving, honestly). And looking at trailers and stuff he thought he'd hate Discovery. Now, he's a grumpy, cranky old bastard fan who hates anything new simply because it's new, and I almost had to force him to give Discovery a try. And it took a couple episodes, but he loves it. Even he admits that this is worthy of Roddenberry in every way.
    Off topic and I've yet to see Discovery myself, but I think that it (like most Trek, and I'm a huge fan of TOS/TNG) has some scenes that-- when taken out of context-- look absolutely clown shoes. People really go out of their way to dogpile on it because, well, everything is done with extreme emphasis today. To be fair to it as well, TNG (usually lauded as the objective best series, even if I prefer TOS) took a season or two to find its stride so a few episodes is pretty good by Trek standards.

    For legality, my mild take on Superman is that Mercy Graves is severely underused. I enjoy her on the animated series, but making her an amazon who broke bad is actually pretty great and I'm a bit surprised that she doesn't come up more.

  8. #2138
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Superman shouldn't have a son/kid in main continuity.
    Blasphemy I know.
    This is the truth!!! It's like they've run out of ideas and have been mining Elseworlds stories for years now!

  9. #2139
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    When people say they need a Superman they can relate to...

    I need a Superman that inspires me to be a better person.

    I don't need to see Clark Kent doing all the same mistakes I do in order to find him compelling as a character. I want him to lead with his example. He is Super not just in powers by also his mind and heart.
    Contrary to what people say, the two are not mutually exclusive. If you can't relate to Superman on some level, if you don't believe in the ideals he champions, there is nothing for you to be inspired by.

    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    The second people stop coddling these broken heroes is the day they stop getting made. Next time someone brings up how hard their life is they should get ignored. It doesn't make a lick of sense to me that the WWII generation of heroes worked harder and complained less while the modern day heroes work less and complain more. Some times it's painful for me to compare Batman from the Golden or Bronze age to Batman in the modern era.
    And who says the modern heroes work less.

  10. #2140
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magha_regulus View Post
    This is the truth!!! It's like they've run out of ideas and have been mining Elseworlds stories for years now!
    Well, if the writers hands are tied from doing daring stuff. Then they would automatically mine things.besides,i see the elseworld and main world differencation overrated. Dc should about many worlds,many interpretation and many stories, Not just a main universe. Besides, i feel elsewords are more creative.

  11. #2141
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Contrary to what people say, the two are not mutually exclusive. If you can't relate to Superman on some level, if you don't believe in the ideals he champions, there is nothing for you to be inspired by.



    And who says the modern heroes work less.
    The problem is pushing clark as the only side of the character that matters. The philosophy of treating character as just a guy with powers in every single interpretation. Some interpretation being that is ok. But, that shouldn't be the fundamental philosophy of writers who approach the character, every single time. He is not spiderman or flash.

  12. #2142
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    The problem is pushing clark as the only side of the character that matters. The philosophy of treating character as just a guy with powers in every single interpretation. Some interpretation being that is ok. But, that shouldn't be the fundamental philosophy of writers who approach the character, every single time. He is not spiderman or flash.
    Likewise, going in the opposite direction isn't any better.

  13. #2143
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Likewise, going in the opposite direction isn't any better.
    Not really. Sometimes it needs to happen. It's better to have many interpretation. Balancing things is hard and sometimes can and should happen. But, more often than not it will not. So superman being unbalanced isn't a problem. But treating one version as be all and end all of the character is. In this case, every supermen being the everyman is just baaaad and boring.

  14. #2144
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Not really. Sometimes it needs to happen. It's better to have many interpretation. Balancing things is hard and sometimes can and should happen. But, more often than not it will not. So superman being unbalanced isn't a problem. But treating one version as be all and end all of the character is. In this case, every supermen being the everyman is just baaaad and boring.
    Treating one version of Superman as the be all, end all is exactly what plenty of Superman fans do. They just choose which version they like most over the ones they like least. We're seeing that done in this very thread.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 01-22-2020 at 12:21 AM.

  15. #2145
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Treating one version of Superman as the be all, end all is exactly what plenty of Superman fans do. They just choose which version they like most over the ones they like least. We're seeing that done in this very thread.
    Is it @stargazer01?i don't think so. He just saying he doesn't care for relatability in a superman story. That's a valid opinion. Some want that.besides, relatability is subjective. I don't find postcrisis guy relatable at all. Yet, he is the everyman, with superman being a thing he does. Zack snyder says his portrayal is relatable. I don't find it relatable at all. I found allmight relatable. And it wasn't aiming to be relatable at all. I like precrisis supermen as well. I like goldenage clark and silverage kal el. Both of them have issues i find deeply relatable, yet these are said to be unrelatable . I like some of new52. But, it tried to be too kewl sometimes.
    I don't want to be stuck with a version of the character. If that was my only choice. I would choose the original. I am a manga guy. For me, creators decisions trump all other writers.

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