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  1. #2116
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I used the undercover cops and spies as examples to WHY secret identities are still a very real thing.

    Plus, its one thing to know Superman is on good terms with a news outlet and their star reporter. Its something else when it becomes common knowledge that those people are actually his good friends, Lois is his wife, he has very vulnerable human parents, etc. Suddenly, if people want to hurt Superman, a whole bunch of targets suddenly popped up. And even Clark can't be in 2-3 or more places at once.

    With the likes of Joker getting this news, and with how pissed off Lex was, a well organized retaliation should be in the works. One where bodies hit the floor.
    Agreed... there's a world of difference between 'The hot reporter who writes stories about you,' and 'Your wife and the mother of your child'.

  2. #2117
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I used the undercover cops and spies as examples to WHY secret identities are still a very real thing.

    Plus, its one thing to know Superman is on good terms with a news outlet and their star reporter. Its something else when it becomes common knowledge that those people are actually his good friends, Lois is his wife, he has very vulnerable human parents, etc. Suddenly, if people want to hurt Superman, a whole bunch of targets suddenly popped up. And even Clark can't be in 2-3 or more places at once.

    With the likes of Joker getting this news, and with how pissed off Lex was, a well organized retaliation should be in the works. One where bodies hit the floor.
    But like Ascended pointed out, Kingdom Come and Injustice happened in realities where his ID wasnít public. Jimmy and Lois were targeted in Injustice just because of their association with Superman. Kingdom Come was even more attenuated. Lois, even post-marriage was targeted just because she was thought to be Supermanís girlfriend after Lois and Clark were married. Clark Kent was even targeted occasionally if Iím remembering a few of those stories correctly. So again, itís not like Superman was thought to be a monk with no connections to people. His association with his friends was well known. Really, only the Kentís would be new factors.

    This is all pre-Bendis as well. Bendis has set it up even more so. You have the Invisible Mafia who donít even say Loisí name because they knew he had a special connection to her. Targeting Lois was basically a cliche to Leone, who suggested Clark as something new.

    Honestly, itís almost as likely to lessen the danger to them. Theyíd want to avoid direct confrontation.

  3. #2118
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    But like Ascended pointed out, Kingdom Come and Injustice happened in realities where his ID wasn’t public. Jimmy and Lois were targeted in Injustice just because of their association with Superman. Kingdom Come was even more attenuated. Lois, even post-marriage was targeted just because she was thought to be Superman’s girlfriend after Lois and Clark were married. Clark Kent was even targeted occasionally if I’m remembering a few of those stories correctly. So again, it’s not like Superman was thought to be a monk with no connections to people. His association with his friends was well known. Really, only the Kent’s would be new factors.

    This is all pre-Bendis as well. Bendis has set it up even more so. You have the Invisible Mafia who don’t even say Lois’ name because they knew he had a special connection to her. Targeting Lois was basically a cliche to Leone, who suggested Clark as something new.

    Honestly, it’s almost as likely to lessen the danger to them. They’d want to avoid direct confrontation.
    Elseworlds. Besides which, knowing Lois is actually Superman's wife makes her a target. A possible way of keeping Superman under the control of a criminal. Sme with Jimmy. Ma and Pa. The rest of the Daily Planet staff. Having how close those people actually are to Clark as Superman, make them even more likely to be targeted.

    And the Invisible Hacks, er, Mafia? Whatever.

    Besides which, there are characters who aren't Bendis creations that will be only more eager to get back at Clark with the reveal. Lex, Joker, Bizzaro (from another universe), Metallo, Cyborg Superman, etc.

  4. #2119
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Elseworlds. Besides which, knowing Lois is actually Superman's wife makes her a target. A possible way of keeping Superman under the control of a criminal. Sme with Jimmy. Ma and Pa. The rest of the Daily Planet staff. Having how close those people actually are to Clark as Superman, make them even more likely to be targeted.

    And the Invisible Hacks, er, Mafia? Whatever.

    Besides which, there are characters who aren't Bendis creations that will be only more eager to get back at Clark with the reveal. Lex, Joker, Bizzaro (from another universe), Metallo, Cyborg Superman, etc.
    Elseworlds, does'nt matter. Those kind of things happen in main universe. Talia tried to kill lois the reporter, no superman required . Lois lost a limb in a fight with Manchester black,just recently. Jimmy gets kidnapped everyother day.They are already in the middle of the action. It's a risk they already decided to take. Lois would go on a quest for a story no matter the danger. It wasn't just clark's concern that had him maintain the id. Clark isn't some saint. It was his issues. His issues aren't there anymore. What would be the point of having the id, if he doesn't have any sort of issues? It's not even funny anymore. It's too serious.

  5. #2120
    Amazing Member Crabble's Avatar
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    If his loved ones are threatened then expect Kara (+ other Superman associates/allies) or Bruce (+ Justice League) to step in and help Superman keep them safe, if he thinks he can't do it on his own.
    Last edited by Crabble; 01-19-2020 at 08:17 PM.

  6. #2121
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I guess it can go either way. I remember that one STAS episode when a plane hijacker found out he was mouthing off to Lois, and then he realized that it was the Lois Lane and he knew right away he was screwed. Maybe there are some bad guys who feel Lois Lane is off-limits because if they messed with her then there'd be repercussions with the Big Guy.

    On the other hand, if a bad guy wanted to screw Superman and didn't care about the consequences, then Lois is a target.

  7. #2122
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    Being in a superhero universe puts the Daily Bugle staff in danger by default.

  8. #2123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I had the same kind of reaction about Clark's identity being public; what about his loved ones?

    But for eighty years (give or take a Truth or two) Clark's identity has been secret and that hasn't stopped villains from attacking the Daily Planet or Lois or any of the people who work there. I mean, it sounds like it changes everything but every villain has known for years that attacking Lois and the Planet is the best way to get at Superman. That's even fueled major stories like Kingdom Come, where Joker attacked the Planet; he didn't know who Superman was but he knew Superman was friends with the Planet staff. So.....Superman 18 actually doesn't change much here.

    The bigger question is how it impacts the Kents; they've almost never been targets (give or take a Conduit or two). But Doomsday Clock notwithstanding, they're apparently still dead.
    The discussion of the Planet staff sort of blurs the issue to me. Sure, Lois and Jimmy have been targets since their introduction even when neither knew the secret but, what about guys like Pete Ross or Clark's college roommate or for that matter the town of Smallville?

    If I were a villain trying to get back at Superman. I wouldn't target the people he hangs around on a regular basis, the fact he is around them makes it likely he will be there to stop any threat to them. I'd be targeting people connected to him that aren't close enough for him to expect to be targeted. Hurting that kid whose cat he rescued six months ago- simply because he met Superman once- will hurt. Superman with less risk. And now that I would know about his time as Clark Kent I'd look for people Clark knew but who didn't rate having Batman or the JLA playing bodyguard. Not Jonathan and Martha- but how many people in Clark's classes in Smallville or Metropolis U have moved away from central locations Superman's allies would think to protect?

  9. #2124
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    The discussion of the Planet staff sort of blurs the issue to me. Sure, Lois and Jimmy have been targets since their introduction even when neither knew the secret but, what about guys like Pete Ross or Clark's college roommate or for that matter the town of Smallville?

    If I were a villain trying to get back at Superman. I wouldn't target the people he hangs around on a regular basis, the fact he is around them makes it likely he will be there to stop any threat to them. I'd be targeting people connected to him that aren't close enough for him to expect to be targeted. Hurting that kid whose cat he rescued six months ago- simply because he met Superman once- will hurt. Superman with less risk. And now that I would know about his time as Clark Kent I'd look for people Clark knew but who didn't rate having Batman or the JLA playing bodyguard. Not Jonathan and Martha- but how many people in Clark's classes in Smallville or Metropolis U have moved away from central locations Superman's allies would think to protect?
    Well, we have seen a few stories where the people Superman rescues are attacked. And that does mess with him. As for targeting other people Clark knew, yeah that could be a serious issue. I expect stuff like this to be dealt with in the story. I hope it is, anyway. This reveal shouldn't be clean, there should be ramifications and consequences. I can accept the idea that Clark no longer feels the need to keep his identities secret at this stage of his life, but he had damn good reasons for doing it up till now so I don't expect the world to just say "cool" and no one does anything with the new information, yknow? Looking at how Bendis handled the issue in Daredevil I think he's more than capable of pulling it off, but we'll see how it goes.

    One thing that works in Clark's favor here is that his circle of friends has always been so small. Pete and Lana, and that's kind of it for childhood friends of any note, yknow?

    How is this handled for the president? I know a president's immediate family get secret service, but what about the high school best friends and whatnot? However that gets tackled by the white house security is how I expect Bendis to handle it here, given the president of earth stuff.
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  10. #2125
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    How is this handled for the president? I know a president's immediate family get secret service, but what about the high school best friends and whatnot? However that gets tackled by the white house security is how I expect Bendis to handle it here, given the president of earth stuff.
    It's only immediate family. Spouse, children (adult children if they are an active President, or former presidents kids up to 16 or 10 years after the presidency), etc. Parents are included in "immediate family" I think. But no, the secret service does not protect uncles or cousins, or friends, etc.
    Last edited by Yoda; 01-20-2020 at 09:22 AM.

  11. #2126
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    When people say they need a Superman they can relate to...

    I need a Superman that inspires me to be a better person.

    I don't need to see Clark Kent doing all the same mistakes I do in order to find him compelling as a character. I want him to lead with his example. He is Super not just in powers by also his mind and heart.

  12. #2127
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    For revealing his identity, Clark deserves to have those close to him attacked and killed for his selfish and shallow reasoning. The people at the Daily Planet? Squished by Metallo. The Kents? Slaughtered by Joker. Jimmy? Tortured and killed by Bruno Mannheim. Followed by Lex then suing Clark and Lois for years of biased writing (after coordinating the other attacks).

    There's a reason why undercover cops, agents, spies, and others keep secret identities and such. Its to protect their loved ones and other innocents from being targeted. But nope, lets have Clark be a selfish prick about it.

    I get the reasoning, it seems selfish of him. I still don't want to see all those bad thing happening to his love ones, but they are in more danger now, more exposed I think. Much less privacy too. That sucks.

  13. #2128
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    When people say they need a Superman they can relate to...

    I need a Superman that inspires me to be a better person.

    I don't need to see Clark Kent doing all the same mistakes I do in order to find him compelling as a character. I want him to lead with his example. He is Super not just in powers by also his mind and heart.


    Agreed! I've said for years now.. that Heroes used to be characters that we average people looked up to and wanted to BE.... now people want the heroes to be as screwed up as WE are... Personally I'm old school. Give me the solid good guys that I can emulate. I have enough broken and fallen heroes in the 'real' world if I want to identify with.

  14. #2129
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Agreed! I've said for years now.. that Heroes used to be characters that we average people looked up to and wanted to BE.... now people want the heroes to be as screwed up as WE are... Personally I'm old school. Give me the solid good guys that I can emulate. I have enough broken and fallen heroes in the 'real' world if I want to identify with.
    The second people stop coddling these broken heroes is the day they stop getting made. Next time someone brings up how hard their life is they should get ignored. It doesn't make a lick of sense to me that the WWII generation of heroes worked harder and complained less while the modern day heroes work less and complain more. Some times it's painful for me to compare Batman from the Golden or Bronze age to Batman in the modern era.
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  15. #2130
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    The second people stop coddling these broken heroes is the day they stop getting made. Next time someone brings up how hard their life is they should get ignored. It doesn't make a lick of sense to me that the WWII generation of heroes worked harder and complained less while the modern day heroes work less and complain more. Some times it's painful for me to compare Batman from the Golden or Bronze age to Batman in the modern era.
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