Controversial Superman Opinions

[DochaDocha]

The same can be said of any character who is mind controlled. And for every instance of him getting beat up there are for more of him triumphing.

It happens to a lot of characters, but when you need someone for the main JLA baddie to beat up to prove he's a tough son of a gun, he's not going to be beating up Aquaman.

I mean, what's the biggest hero vs. hero showdown in comic book history? Probably TDKR. They didn't pick Captain Marvel or Martian Manhunter for a reason.

That's why I say Superman is the "ultimate" jobber, because when you're trying to tell a high-profile story, and you need a hero-gone-rogue who needs to be beaten, their number one option is Superman. It's irrelevant to how many times in relation it happens to when he does something heroic. It's just when you need a guy that Joe Everyman has actually heard of, he's the guy.

[Otto Gruenwald]

Bring back Rokyn.

Keep Rokyn.

[Johnny Thunders!]

What the hell does post human even mean? And don't you have to be human in the first place for that to work. Superman is not the only high powered hero in the DCU let alone comics. The superman you and Johnny Thunders describe isn't a character so much as random collection of feats.



About as often as it has happened to Superman. Though I can't recall Harley being mind controlled. Either way, this idea Superman is the ultimate jobber is provably false.

We weren't discussing what being Superhuman does to his character, we were discussing if being Superman meant he could fight. I think if you can fight General Zod, Mongul, and Darkseid one on one, you can fight.

[Robanker]

Truncated for length

I say this with the best of intentions, but I don't think your vision for Superman can work in a shared DC Universe. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work. There's a reason DC moved away from Superman's silver age: Kal was invalidating half their line. We complain about Batman doing this now but making Clark do it isn't better.

More importantly, I find it refreshing that Clark's ego isn't so fragile that he can take his losses in stride. I don't have a lot of respect for people who can't accept defeat. The maturity Clark shows regularly is part of what I find appealing about him, and I don't think it makes him look beta or like a jobber.

It makes him look like an adult, confident and secure in himself. Tom King wrote his reasoning for Clark throwing fights to Bruce well: he has nothing to prove by beating his friend, so he lets Bruce win.

If it mattered, Kal would win. It's how he beat Barry in that story. He had to win, so he did it, albeit with great difficulty. I don't love a lot of Tom King's work, but he certainly did have a good handle on Clark being an adult man well above petty ego checks.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I am a big fan of Tom King's Superman! I have zero problem with Reed Richards being Smarter, or Flash being faster, or Wonder Woman being a more skilled combatant. Same with Batman being a detective. Those are all true manifestations of what those characters are about, but even in the Golden Age, Superman was all about the feat, all about the impossible moment, all about surpassing a limitation. Even look at the Fleisher Superman cartoons. Yes, one robot takes him down in the sky in the beginning of one cartoon, but cue the music, and all of a sudden he floors an army. That's the character. I think Superman is the one hero has the impossible baked in at exactly the right moment. At exactly the right moment if Superman has to, he's faster than the Flash. Smarter than Reed Richards or whatever.

As to the Silver Age, that's when Superman actually has foes that can kill him. Super beings like Braniac, Zod, and Bizarro show up. i would also argue that Superman's character in the sixties is exactly who he was in the 30's, 40's, and 50's. He is the essence of whatever idealized version a an American Male is at the time. The sixties Superman has these big weird explorations of who the character is in big silly operatic sagas. The Silver Age sets up huge themes that get explored over and over again. Whatever the Silver Age was such a waste of time, I know I know.

[Ascended]

I am a big fan of Tom King's Superman! I have zero problem with Reed Richards being Smarter, or Flash being faster, or Wonder Woman being a more skilled combatant. Same with Batman being a detective. Those are all true manifestations of what those characters are about, but even in the Golden Age, Superman was all about the feat, all about the impossible moment, all about surpassing a limitation.

From your mouth to Morrison's ears.

No, I'm not bothered at all by Barry being faster, Diana being a better warrior, or Bruce being a better detective. These guys are all the best at their specific thing, and they're welcome to their domains. DC is a pantheon, and these are Clark's fellow gods. But Clark is still the king of that pantheon; the most all-around capable of them all, and if he's not the absolute best at *everything* he's still the absolute best at plenty, and if he's not number 1 he's still high on the list.

Barry can be as fast as he wants. Bruce and Diana and Hal can all have their specialties. When everything is on the line and you need a miracle, it's still Superman everyone looks to, to accomplish the impossible.

[Agent Z]

We weren't discussing what being Superhuman does to his character, we were discussing if being Superman meant he could fight. I think if you can fight General Zod, Mongul, and Darkseid one on one, you can fight.

Which is completely different from saying he is the best fighter in the world and knowing every single martial art ever invented. You didn't just say Superman knows how to fight. You basically declared him to be better at fighting than everyone else for no other reason than he is Superman.

It happens to a lot of characters, but when you need someone for the main JLA baddie to beat up to prove he's a tough son of a gun, he's not going to be beating up Aquaman.

No, he'll be beating up Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter instead.

TDKR was a Batman story. Look at two of the most iconic Superman stories, For The Man Who Has Everything and The Death Of Superman. The former has Wonder Woman getting rag dolled by a Superman villain only he can defeat while being subject to misogynistic insults. The latter had the entire Justice League lose several I.Q points and be unable to fight a big dumb alien whose only power was to hit hard.

[manwhohaseverything]

I say this with the best of intentions, but I don't think your vision for Superman can work in a shared DC Universe. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work. There's a reason DC moved away from Superman's silver age: Kal was invalidating half their line. We complain about Batman doing this now but making Clark do it isn't better.

More importantly, I find it refreshing that Clark's ego isn't so fragile that he can take his losses in stride. I don't have a lot of respect for people who can't accept defeat. The maturity Clark shows regularly is part of what I find appealing about him, and I don't think it makes him look beta or like a jobber.

It makes him look like an adult, confident and secure in himself. Tom King wrote his reasoning for Clark throwing fights to Bruce well: he has nothing to prove by beating his friend, so he lets Bruce win.

If it mattered, Kal would win. It's how he beat Barry in that story. He had to win, so he did it, albeit with great difficulty. I don't love a lot of Tom King's work, but he certainly did have a good handle on Clark being an adult man well above petty ego checks.

Again, you presume i want clark to beat these guys. I have told you again and again,that ain't my problem. I hate how his attitude is being written. It sucks. It's that of a jobber. If i want to really use a wrestling character(if you have ever watched wrestling ) as an example. Superman is basically kane. He is used as stepping stone. Because he is popular enough even now and was billed as "the monster" face/heel,once upon a time.Jobbing sometimes uses the preexisting profile to get people.

Clark doesn't take losing in strides. He doesn't care. That is nonsense. Anyguys, who enjoys what they do would hate losing. Moreover, he is strongman. Start treating him like one. Sheesh! All i want is for writers to give superman the sportsman's sense of pride,back.that means, no more sun dips. No more short cuts. Back to the goldenage and breaking chains doing feats.

Being mature is know is dealing with loses. Hating losing and putting effort to better yourself. Superman doesn't deal with loses at all. He is treated as a saint and a mahatma. He has no resilience nor determination and his confidence is hollow.

“Confidence... thrives on honesty, on honor, on the sacredness of obligations, on faithful protection and on unselfish performance. Without them it cannot live.”

1. Superman is dishonest, if he says him losing is fun.
2. He has no honor, if when he looses again at the things he loves. Doesn't put any effort in improving and without that, challenges the likes of barry, bruce, lex... Etc. If you ask me he is basically insulting his friends.
3. He is not full filling his obligations towards himself by not trying to achieve his potential nor does he view it as sacred.
4. He fails to protect his ideals. He fails to protect true optimism by being a coward and not facing his competition head on and with all guns blazing.
5. His performance seizes to be unselfish. Because he isn't doing his best. He isn't doing good for goodness sake. Clark is man of unselfishness. Effort for effort sake is should be quintessential part. Otherwise, he wouldn't be fighting a never-ending battle for truth and justice. That takes effort.

I put up that story, not to show clark winning. But, to show tom king finally made the character sweat. He made clark want put in effort and want to win, even though it was basically for charity. This makes me come back to my main problem, he is being written as a saint. Which he was not meant to be. He is written as jobber.Also, something he was not meant to be.

He needs a effing reason to win? Seriously. in which world does an Frontierman who is passionate about thing needs a reason to be at the forefront. If he does Then, why the hell is he competing, even if it's for the charity. Say that he isn't interested in running and is not passionate about it. Ask the people people conducting event that he is will to do something else for getting the charity. Superman the brand could have gotten them the money. Even without the race. Instead he competes and halfasses it. He is insulting himself and barry.

The reason why guys like allmight and guy, who take inspiration from the same source like Olympic athletes and gladiators as superman does work better. because they don't put self-improvement on equal footing to genuine altruism. I hate that he is a symbol of stagnation. nobody is inspired by superman to go to the gym or study or anything. I hate the guy who has become comfortable with the chains he wears.

• "If you feel yourself hitting up against your limit remember for what cause you clench your fists... remember why you started down this path, and let that memory carry you beyond your limit."
• "Whether you win or lose... You can always come out ahead by learning from the experience."
• “The slight difference between those who always aim for the top and those who don’t… It’ll come to matter in a big way once you all emerge into society.”

When and if these guys loose. At the very least, it would be respectable lose. Because they gave it their all. They go beyond, plus ultra.
For a guy who brags about dreams and hopes. The current guy isn't written to be this.



The reason why when these guys smile, It means something more is because There sincerity and passion flows through. The reason why superman's comes of as hollow, many a times under many writers for example justice league movie or any boring superman comic,is because superman lacks it .because they write him as above these things.When was the last time clark was passionate about something? Exactly, he ain't. Even his son is a passionate ball of energy. Even his son wants something. He wants to be Superman.

Winning or losing is inconsequential. Effort for effort sake. True genuine confidence and smile in the face of adversities. Involuntary actions to help your fellow beings and the world itself. These are the mark of a hero. Superman needs to be written to be like this.When he loses and brushes it of nothing. He feels like an escapist trying to run away from his potential.

[Robanker]

We must not be reading the same books because he's clearly passionate. He literally went to the ends of the cosmos, beat Barry in a footrace and broke his word, something he holds sacred, to save a young girl. Over in Superman he just revealed his identity because he felt strongly enough about making a change and he truly believes in it. Are you even reading Superman Smashes the Klan? I just don't know, man.

There's a lot of sincerity that comes across from Clark then and now.

You have your own idea of who Superman is, which is fine, we all do, but I'm honestly not sure what you're reading to get a view so negative as those points you listed.

There's one thing that I genuinely couldn't understand, however. You ask why if he doesn't care much about the race, why participate even if it's for charity. Literally that last part. It's for charity. People are willing to donate money, time and attention toward an issue that helps people if Clark runs a few heats with Barry. That's why he participates. He can do something he's good at, even at a loss, because it helps people-- his highest passion. He gets to have a competition with his friends as a means to the end that he cares about a lot more. It's like going to get your favorite food in the whole world but you also get to listen to an album you really like on the way there; something you enjoy while accomplishing something you value a lot more. It isn't as if the time is wasted if he's also not listening deeply for every note and intention while debating if he instead should also have his favorite album playing. Moreover, just because he's not constantly trying to up his speed doesn't mean he half-asses it in the race. He can still be giving it everything he's got, and often does. Moreover, your reasoning betrays a logical fallacy-- that the people who are donating for the race would be shelling out just for Superman's brand. They're not selling Superman's brand, they're selling a race between Flash and Superman. Nobody went to Batman v Superman because "hey, it's got both Batman AND Superman in it," they went because they were promised those two titans meeting for the first time in a fight that will answer the biggest bar room debate of the century. There's a difference. I know I'm dialing into your argument very literally but that's because you presented an extremely flimsy one.

Clark has shown time and again that with powers or no, he always finds another way to be Superman in spirit if not body. He always gives a damn. He always stands up when knocked down. He routinely does what you claim he doesn't. He's, as Morrison put it, the man we created in our darkest hour-- the one who would never let us down. He always finds a way. That hasn't changed, and he still cares a helluva lot more than your posts seem to let on, but I'm growing more and more convinced that you'll never be satisfied short of a manga infused Silver Age Superman.

And that's fine, but outside of an elseworlds take, I don't think that can ever be sustained in a shared DC Universe with The Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Batman and many others. You're essentially letting all those other books tell stories and having Clark's be a highlight reel of a dude training, like all the filler episodes of Dragon Ball Z. Hard pass.

[manwhohaseverything]

Which is completely different from saying he is the best fighter in the world and knowing every single martial art ever invented. You didn't just say Superman knows how to fight. You basically declared him to be better at fighting than everyone else for no other reason than he is Superman.



No, he'll be beating up Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter instead.

TDKR was a Batman story. Look at two of the most iconic Superman stories, For The Man Who Has Everything and The Death Of Superman. The former has Wonder Woman getting rag dolled by a Superman villain only he can defeat while being subject to misogynistic insults. The latter had the entire Justice League lose several I.Q points and be unable to fight a big dumb alien whose only power was to hit hard.

Dude! Darkseid, zod and the likes are far above the paygrade of anything this world has to offer including fighting. Even powerless (whatever that means. These guys aren't augmented humans to lose their powers) they would woop any earthling. Period. Writers just want the humans to matter.the biggest sin is allowing the likes of batman to enter the 4th world. Now, that pandora has bee opened. Lois lane is now a fury. He doesn't need other reasons. If i was stuck with people 200,000 in the past. Chances are i could easily beat the best of them.

As for the man who has everything. Nothing in that fight is unnatural. Wonderwoman nor the amazons has ever been an equal to pure power and durability to a kryptonIan or a martian or a new god. Wonder woman has become more powerful. Not, back then. Even now i doubt it. If it was the martian then i would understand. But, martian manhunter when he fought mongul prior did ok and better than superman even. You are also forgetting that mongul originally was tough son of a gun.

And what did you expect from mongul. Sun flower and daisies. He is a misogynist. Death of superman, a story specifically done to give superman a loss. A big L, in a dumb brawl with a brute. Ofcourse, they built it up. And was it just JL who lost I.Q points? Be that as may, doomsday is a creature that can kill darkseid and has beaten him. Jl is nothing. The one good thing about doomsday is that he is untouchable, Even with plans.Superman doesn't stop it.

[Jon Clark]

To me Superman was never about striving to be the best. It was about being the best. Not in a "Superman never gets beaten" or a "Superman outclasses every other member of the JLA" manner, but in the fact that Superman rarely loses and therefore is reasonably complacent about his abilities.

Superman doesn't need to know how to fight to beat most opponents. Superman battling the top-rated MMA fighter has such an edge in speed and invulnerability that there is no risk of Superman being injured. Every attack can be dodged without effort and on the off chance one gets through it hits something harder than steel. Until he encounters someone close to his own level of power there is no impetus for him to learn any type of hand-to-hand combat. And any training he undertook would be tied to his powers, saying he learned from Batman or Diana how to fight so he should be a master combatant even without powers is like arguing that a normal fighter suffers no loss of ability if you strap massive weights on each limb, blindfold them, and hold the fight at the top of Everest.

When it comes to strength and speed, he is one of the top beings. He is "fast enough" and "strong enough". While I object to Barry being faster than Suoerman to the extent that Superman and Batman are both standing still in comparison, I have no problem with Barry (or Wally, Jesse, Bart) being faster than any Kryptonian the same way an unpowered trained human can be faster than an average one. Or that some beings like Non or even Zod might be stronger proportionately. And I would prefer there be the rare being like Mongul, Doomsday, or Darkseid whose strength simply dwarfs that of any Kryptonian. The key being that 99.9% of the time Superman succeeds at being fast or strong enough and isn't seeing a need to work harder to improve those skills.

Suerman facing a defeat shouldn't be looking at how he could be stronger, faster, smarter but rather how he can better use his abilities. He doesn't beat Doomsday by becoming more powerful but by outthinking him. He doesn't defeat Reverse-Flash by getting faster but by finding a way to make his other powers count for more than his speed. It's strategy more than adding another level of power.

[Robanker]

From your mouth to Morrison's ears.

No, I'm not bothered at all by Barry being faster, Diana being a better warrior, or Bruce being a better detective. These guys are all the best at their specific thing, and they're welcome to their domains. DC is a pantheon, and these are Clark's fellow gods. But Clark is still the king of that pantheon; the most all-around capable of them all, and if he's not the absolute best at *everything* he's still the absolute best at plenty, and if he's not number 1 he's still high on the list.

Barry can be as fast as he wants. Bruce and Diana and Hal can all have their specialties. When everything is on the line and you need a miracle, it's still Superman everyone looks to, to accomplish the impossible.

To me Superman was never about striving to be the best. It was about being the best. Not in a "Superman never gets beaten" or a "Superman outclasses every other member of the JLA" manner, but in the fact that Superman rarely loses and therefore is reasonably complacent about his abilities.

Superman doesn't need to know how to fight to beat most opponents. Superman battling the top-rated MMA fighter has such an edge in speed and invulnerability that there is no risk of Superman being injured. Every attack can be dodged without effort and on the off chance one gets through it hits something harder than steel. Until he encounters someone close to his own level of power there is no impetus for him to learn any type of hand-to-hand combat. And any training he undertook would be tied to his powers, saying he learned from Batman or Diana how to fight so he should be a master combatant even without powers is like arguing that a normal fighter suffers no loss of ability if you strap massive weights on each limb, blindfold them, and hold the fight at the top of Everest.

When it comes to strength and speed, he is one of the top beings. He is "fast enough" and "strong enough". While I object to Barry being faster than Suoerman to the extent that Superman and Batman are both standing still in comparison, I have no problem with Barry (or Wally, Jesse, Bart) being faster than any Kryptonian the same way an unpowered trained human can be faster than an average one. Or that some beings like Non or even Zod might be stronger proportionately. And I would prefer there be the rare being like Mongul, Doomsday, or Darkseid whose strength simply dwarfs that of any Kryptonian. The key being that 99.9% of the time Superman succeeds at being fast or strong enough and isn't seeing a need to work harder to improve those skills.

Suerman facing a defeat shouldn't be looking at how he could be stronger, faster, smarter but rather how he can better use his abilities. He doesn't beat Doomsday by becoming more powerful but by outthinking him. He doesn't defeat Reverse-Flash by getting faster but by finding a way to make his other powers count for more than his speed. It's strategy more than adding another level of power.

What these guys said.

[manwhohaseverything]

We must not be reading the same books because he's clearly passionate. He literally went to the ends of the cosmos, beat Barry in a footrace and broke his word, something he holds sacred, to save a young girl. Over in Superman he just revealed his identity because he felt strongly enough about making a change and he truly believes in it. Are you even reading Superman Smashes the Klan? I just don't know, man.

There's a lot of sincerity that comes across from Clark then and now.

You have your own idea of who Superman is, which is fine, we all do, but I'm honestly not sure what you're reading to get a view so negative as those points you listed.

There's one thing that I genuinely couldn't understand, however. You ask why if he doesn't care much about the race, why participate even if it's for charity. Literally that last part. It's for charity. People are willing to donate money, time and attention toward an issue that helps people if Clark runs a few heats with Barry. That's why he participates. He can do something he's good at, even at a loss, because it helps people-- his highest passion. He gets to have a competition with his friends as a means to the end that he cares about a lot more. It's like going to get your favorite food in the whole world but you also get to listen to an album you really like on the way there; something you enjoy while accomplishing something you value a lot more. It isn't as if the time is wasted if he's also not listening deeply for every note and intention while debating if he instead should also have his favorite album playing. Moreover, just because he's not constantly trying to up his speed doesn't mean he half-asses it in the race. He can still be giving it everything he's got, and often does. Moreover, your reasoning betrays a logical fallacy-- that the people who are donating for the race would be shelling out just for Superman's brand. They're not selling Superman's brand, they're selling a race between Flash and Superman. Nobody went to Batman v Superman because "hey, it's got both Batman AND Superman in it," they went because they were promised those two titans meeting for the first time in a fight that will answer the biggest bar room debate of the century. There's a difference. I know I'm dialing into your argument very literally but that's because you presented an extremely flimsy one.

Clark has shown time and again that with powers or no, he always finds another way to be Superman in spirit if not body. He always gives a damn. He always stands up when knocked down. He routinely does what you claim he doesn't. He's, as Morrison put it, the man we created in our darkest hour-- the one who would never let us down. He always finds a way. That hasn't changed, and he still cares a helluva lot more than your posts seem to let on, but I'm growing more and more convinced that you'll never be satisfied short of a manga infused Silver Age Superman.

And that's fine, but outside of an elseworlds take, I don't think that can ever be sustained in a shared DC Universe with The Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Batman and many others. You're essentially letting all those other books tell stories and having Clark's be a highlight reel of a dude training, like all the filler episodes of Dragon Ball Z. Hard pass.

I am not talking about that book. It is an out of continuity work. That attitude isn't there in other books. Even that isn't good enough for me. He needs saintly reason for winning,Sheesh!. He should be always on his foot. The man of action never rests, accept when he rests for obvious reasons . When he is not saving people. He would working on something, like building, inventing, working on his physical abilities... Etc.

Charity doesn't require competitions. Competition has rules and it should be done in the spirit of competition. Yes, even the ones for charity . Otherwise you are basically insulting everyone,yourself and your opponents. Superman who doesn't cheat and stands for ideals would reject being in fake competition . Rocky balboa fought mason dixon in a charity event. Doesn't mean he half assed it. When and every time rocky began half assing and being too comfortable with himself. He got his stuffings beat out of him. Superman needs that. See, what you described is saint not a man later on. That ain't superman. Helping people is his instinct not passion. Though he can do that with passion. Mainly, Passion comes something largely you do for your enjoyment of life. So that when you look back you just you don't see only others. This passion can advance society because it helps talent bloom.People are passionate about different things like art, musice, science.. Etc. Superman is an athlete, a modern day gladiator, a strong man, a boxer, a runner, a genius, a writer, a farmer .. Etc. These are all his passion. Superman isn't one dimensional saint.

Nah! You didn't. superman who isn't passionate about racing shouldn't be in racing competition. Period. Have him be there as a guest. Better yet,i am sure the organisers and superman can come up with tons of honest ways for selling their brand to make money.

He gets up sure. Does it mean anything? Why is getting up?for what purpose? He wants to save the world. Well, don't we all. That isn't much a motive. But other than that. What does he set out to achieve for himself ? How many times did he get up even when he fights batman? What does he do when barry beats him? What does Superman do when wonder woman out wrestles him? Nothing. He is perfectly fine. He doesn't get back in there.

Nope! I don't want silverage superman with mangaesque aesthetic . If we are being accurate, I want the goldenage gladiator for truth and justice.i don't want filler with training. I want him taking self improvement seriously and losing itself seriously.Penalty ethics of athletes are a perfect fit for that. Furthermore, this action comics. Action stories having a good scene where the hero shows his physical prowess that is earned Isn't meant to be trivialised. It isn't an insult,either.

This is wayyyy better than copying spiderman at being the everyman. Really, superman being the everyman is the most contradictory thing ever. Not that contradictions can't be fun. But this is not.

I would standby what i said. I hate the saint characterisation. Bring him back to being superman. casual hate superman for the same reason.

[manwhohaseverything]

To me Superman was never about striving to be the best. It was about being the best. Not in a "Superman never gets beaten" or a "Superman outclasses every other member of the JLA" manner, but in the fact that Superman rarely loses and therefore is reasonably complacent about his abilities.

Superman doesn't need to know how to fight to beat most opponents. Superman battling the top-rated MMA fighter has such an edge in speed and invulnerability that there is no risk of Superman being injured. Every attack can be dodged without effort and on the off chance one gets through it hits something harder than steel. Until he encounters someone close to his own level of power there is no impetus for him to learn any type of hand-to-hand combat. And any training he undertook would be tied to his powers, saying he learned from Batman or Diana how to fight so he should be a master combatant even without powers is like arguing that a normal fighter suffers no loss of ability if you strap massive weights on each limb, blindfold them, and hold the fight at the top of Everest.

When it comes to strength and speed, he is one of the top beings. He is "fast enough" and "strong enough". While I object to Barry being faster than Suoerman to the extent that Superman and Batman are both standing still in comparison, I have no problem with Barry (or Wally, Jesse, Bart) being faster than any Kryptonian the same way an unpowered trained human can be faster than an average one. Or that some beings like Non or even Zod might be stronger proportionately. And I would prefer there be the rare being like Mongul, Doomsday, or Darkseid whose strength simply dwarfs that of any Kryptonian. The key being that 99.9% of the time Superman succeeds at being fast or strong enough and isn't seeing a need to work harder to improve those skills.

Suerman facing a defeat shouldn't be looking at how he could be stronger, faster, smarter but rather how he can better use his abilities. He doesn't beat Doomsday by becoming more powerful but by outthinking him. He doesn't defeat Reverse-Flash by getting faster but by finding a way to make his other powers count for more than his speed. It's strategy more than adding another level of power.

Accept, for the parts where he is breaking chains, pushing his own previous limits,taking to the sky.. Etc. If superman wasn't about improving he would still be jumpinh 1/8 th of a mile. Even now.

[phantom1592]

T
Superman doesn't need to know how to fight to beat most opponents. Superman battling the top-rated MMA fighter has such an edge in speed and invulnerability that there is no risk of Superman being injured. Every attack can be dodged without effort and on the off chance one gets through it hits something harder than steel. Until he encounters someone close to his own level of power there is no impetus for him to learn any type of hand-to-hand combat. And any training he undertook would be tied to his powers, saying he learned from Batman or Diana how to fight so he should be a master combatant even without powers is like arguing that a normal fighter suffers no loss of ability if you strap massive weights on each limb, blindfold them, and hold the fight at the top of Everest.
r.

I've always hated stories that say he's a world class fighter who knows secret kryptonian martial arts and what not... because why would he?? 99.9% of the time he doesn't need 'skills' like that. It's like when I wrestle my young nephews. I win every time. They can't grapple me, They can't punch me. They have more endurance... but it's not something that I need to break out the fancy tai kwon do to whup them. I simply outclass them physically. That's what almost every Superman fight Kal's ever been in. There are the occassional people who can equal him... who have the same strenght and speed... but most of the time he doesn't need it, and in those rare cases I LIKE him being the underdog who has to get creative to win.


I'm not going to say those stories don't exist.... I just find them stupid.