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  1. #3976
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Here is an idea,Two people with similar intelligence,strength,speed,..etc whatever maynot have same domains/fields of expertise or choose it.They may not have same modus operandi either.Superman doesn't work like batman.Period.As if bruce would be like "Let's jump infront of a bullet to sheild a guy".

    Also,the logic of using "Kryptonian blowing up" as a way to show how they aren't that intelligent is not even good.As if Humans can even begin to think about solve a problem that complicated as a sun eating a planet or core being destablised.Human of dc earth still can't solve ethical delimas regarding death penalty,ethical use of violence, supervillains escaping jail...etc .Krypton atleast doesn't have a bunch of lunatics blowing things up every other day.If and when earth gets to that point.People of dc earth would be dead.Plain and simple.I don't think even superman can change that.Since,His planet had a race full of em superpeople.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 04-10-2021 at 10:36 AM.
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  2. #3977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman's intelligence when it comes to science is highly dependent on the writer and while he is actually rarely written as an idiot, to say he is as smart as Batman is debatable at best.

    My controversial opinion is that fans greatly overestimate Kryptonian intelligence and the desire for them to be smarter than humans is an overreaction to perceived mistreatment of Superman over the years.
    Jor-El though Kal-El was mentally impaired because he wasn't picking up calculus fast enough as an toddler and that was back in the early days of the character. You had Superman recreating Jor-El and Lara perfectly from scratch as an adult in the relatively grounded Bronze Age. You had the whole fiasco where he had a machine that turned white women into black women. And his skill in robotics was up there with the best of the them and really only has gotten questioned since the 1987 reboot which wanted the character more grounded

    Look I'm not saying that Superman has to be smarter than Batman or that it even matters to me if he is but you can't expect Superman to slow down while other catch up. Either surpass the guy or don't.

    If I had it my way on the Justice League would be a genius of their own field. Batman would be a master of deductive reasoning, psychology, and tactics. Diana would be a genius in physiological affairs. Superman in robotics. Hal Jordan in aerodynamics. The Flash in some kind of Flash relevant field. etc.
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  3. #3978
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman's intelligence when it comes to science is highly dependent on the writer and while he is actually rarely written as an idiot, to say he is as smart as Batman is debatable at best.

    My controversial opinion is that fans greatly overestimate Kryptonian intelligence and the desire for them to be smarter than humans is an overreaction to perceived mistreatment of Superman over the years.
    How any of the super-science things built by Humans are based on alien tech(to include, but not limited to, Kryptonian)?

  4. #3979
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    I am not concerned about him being smarter then Batman. But i am concerned about the fact that Superman has been nothing more then a fighter in many versions. Kinda like Batman of Dark Knight trilogy who needed Lucius Fox for his tech work. Except here his fighting also comes from the sun. The guy has everything handed to him. And he makes no effort to make anything better.



    Superman used to have an army of robots working for him. Apart from cool visuals and storytelling potential, there's a lot that could be done with that. One of the best explanations they can come up with his disguise is having his robots play doubles. Since Superman and Clark Kent are together no way can the similar looking guys be the same guy. Right? Since few people can act and look like Chris Reeve, your double identity crumbles under the slightest scrutiny. Especially when it comes to the movies, where they don't even try.


    I say it would be even better, if his robots can stand in for Superman. Not Clark Kent. No robot can play Clark Kent. Give them some limitations. Most may look like ordinary robots. He keeps a couple of them ready to stand in for Superman when needed. They need not be as powerful as Superman. If the robots are pretty much Superman, he would be as good as Luthor, when it comes to intellect. Which shouldn't happen if Luthor or villains like him would remain a genuine threat.


    Say because of his genes he has a natural aptitude for science, coming from his parents on Krypton. Since, so much about Superman is about his parents, why not have this from the Krypton side? I like the Silver Age stories where his idea of retirement was to become a scientist. I think of storytelling potential like one of his robots going rogue which has happened. Older stories where a number of his problems can be from his own Fortress, where he can access alien planets and dimensions. I would even blatantly steal from Dragon Ball Z, get him a red sun room, where he trains without powers, which is why he has such sweet abs.


    To make the Man of Tomorrow feel like a true Man of Tomorrow, it would be a lot better if he uses technology much more. And not all of them should be 'hand me downs' from Krypton. Say Braniac reprogrammed as his AI. Who can act like his Jarvis. Some of them feel derivative. But i say take ideas from the winners. And Iron Man is one of the best of the best.


    With an AI you can show that before every move he calculates situations. He's not just jumping into fights like a blunt weapon with no plan except punching real hard till the problem goes away. And people already have a sort of AI. We use a lot of tech with our phones, AI, etc. Since Superman uses none, it feels like far from being a Man of Tomorrow he's a Man from the Past.

    People go overboard. Superman is super smart. So he is smarter then everyone. Except Luthor. This need not and should not be the case. But making him a sort of mad scientist makes his character and stories a bit better imo. What kind of inspiration he can be for humanity, if all he does is put off fires and punch monsters in the face? With no effort to improve either himself and humanity? For humanity to join him in the sun, he should be moving to the sun himself.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 04-10-2021 at 06:21 AM.

  5. #3980
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    Yeah, I don't understand why the smart scientist Superman has been written out of the comics. I guess they think that makes him too alien and they want us to think of him as farmer Kent. This seems to be a misunderstanding of how relatable scientists are and how smart farmers can be.
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  6. #3981
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman's intelligence when it comes to science is highly dependent on the writer and while he is actually rarely written as an idiot, to say he is as smart as Batman is debatable at best.

    My controversial opinion is that fans greatly overestimate Kryptonian intelligence and the desire for them to be smarter than humans is an overreaction to perceived mistreatment of Superman over the years.
    His intelligence when it comes to science wasn't dependent on the writer before COIE, it was pretty much consistent fact. Why should we put value on a universe wide reboot for how the character should be written?

    He shouldn't be smarter than Batman in all fields, but that goes both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Humans in the DCU have created pretty impressive stuff too. I'm nit not saying Kryptonians weren't highly advanced but they aren't infallible and they did end up destroying their own planet, something we've managed to avoid thus far.
    In the DCU at least, a large part of that is that the normal humans have benevolent superheroes helping to prevent that sort of thing from happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Supermans parents were still dumb enough to not build a bigger pod.
    I think they did, but Krypto jumped in it and it took off

    Zor-El was somehow able to shield an entire city in a bubble and prevent it from exploding, maybe he was the smarter brother.

  7. #3982
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I think of the intelligence just like any of his 5 senses, it’s amped to the nth degree. Earth One, New 52, I think even Birthright, Superman as a super intellect has returned to form. Country doesn’t mean dumb, Superman can say “aw shucks,” and still speak every known language in the galaxy.

  8. #3983
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    He shouldn't be smarter than Batman in all fields, but that goes both ways.
    I'm fine with Batman being better at some things. He specializes. He's a better detective, he puts together clues, solves puzzles, probabaly has more knowledge of psychology, battlefield tactics, things like that. He also more devious and underhanded.

    If you need somebody to reverse engineer alien technology, or build a fancy robot, then Superman has him outlcassed all the way.

  9. #3984
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I'm fine with Batman being better at some things. He specializes. He's a better detective, he puts together clues, solves puzzles, probabaly has more knowledge of psychology, battlefield tactics, things like that. He also more devious and underhanded.

    If you need somebody to reverse engineer alien technology, or build a fancy robot, then Superman has him outlcassed all the way.
    Exactly. Though for battlefield tactics, while Bruce would be better than Clark, I think Diana would be better than either.

    She also shouldn't be a slouch in the sciences herself, particularly when it comes to medical sciences whereas Clark would be more stuff like robotics.

  10. #3985
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Zor-El was somehow able to shield an entire city in a bubble and prevent it from exploding, maybe he was the smarter brother.
    Hmm not sure about all continuities, but in some Argo City had walls and defensive barriers before the catastrophe started. I think the explanation was that the local flora and fauna was a bit too.... lively/dangerous.

  11. #3986
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I think Batman would be more decisive, he wouldn’t need to know every variable to make the right decision. I see Batman as almost, but not quite a Luthor sized intellect. He could be that smart but he has devoted himself to more than just Science.

  12. #3987
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    His intelligence when it comes to science wasn't dependent on the writer before COIE, it was pretty much consistent fact. Why should we put value on a universe wide reboot for how the character should be written?

    He shouldn't be smarter than Batman in all fields, but that goes both ways.



    In the DCU at least, a large part of that is that the normal humans have benevolent superheroes helping to prevent that sort of thing from happening.



    I think they did, but Krypto jumped in it and it took off

    Zor-El was somehow able to shield an entire city in a bubble and prevent it from exploding, maybe he was the smarter brother.
    Zor was likely just more pragmatic. I don't know that he thought he could really send them elsewhere to live so he tried to shield them from the blast. Jor-El was thinking about different solar systems. They're both brilliant but applying it differently, Jor arguably trying to juggle more.

  13. #3988
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    By now there have been so many different approaches to these characters that there's no right answer. Whatever you think it should be that's fair.

    I grew up on a Batman that could be defeated by a trick umbrella. And I liked those shortcomings. They made for a tense story--where Batman was always in danger--because he was just a regular guy with a cape, a cowl and a gadget belt. Take those away from him and he was in deep do-do. Granted he was a good detective--but the kind of mysteries he solved were the type that exist in fiction, where the writer knows the answer and can place all the clues in the story so the reader along with the protagonist can work out the solution. If writers are giving Batman problems to solve that the average I.Q. reader can't figure out--and bringing in answers out of left field with no set-up--then they're breaking the rules of good mystery writing. Monk is incredibly intelligent yet I can usually figure out "this is how he did it" before Adrian and my I.Q. is pretty low.

    Whereas, I grew up with a Superman who was immensely powerful. And it seemed to me, even if it wasn't expressly stated that he was super-intelligent (which it was), he would have to be smarter than any non-powered individual. A number of factors added up to this: 1. He was capable of travelling to planets throughout the universe far more advanced than ours. 2. He could travel into the distant past or distant future at the drop of a hat. 3. He had super-powers from the time he arrived as a baby on Earth and would have logged many hours using his powers and encountering all kinds of scenarios to solve. 4. He had super-senses which gave him more information about the world around him than anyone who had to depend on their limited five senses. 5. He was super-fast, which meant everything worked for him at a higher rate of speed, so he could process and react to everything in an instant. 6. He was invulnerable and super-strong which would mean that his brain didn't suffer the natural degradation that we experience and his synaptic brain function would always be at peak efficiency. 7. He had a super-memory--could even recall things from Krypton when he was a baby. 8. He had access to Kryptonian technology and when he rescued Kandor from Brainiac that would have increased his knowledge of Krypton's science and technology.

    Even when the writers took a lot of that away from him, the combination of his senses, speed, invulnerablity, experience and access to Krypton tech. should have made Superman much more intelligent than a non-powered hero. For Bruce Wayne to be on the same level as these incredibly powerful characters suggests that he isn't human--he's some kind of genetic experiment that produced a being with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men.
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  14. #3989
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    If people are fine with superman's moral centre being skyparents and earth parents.Then they should be fine with Lois being superman's moral centre and him going bad .If you continually present a character without his own will,his own moral compass and as a mere machine(iron giant and Hogarth).This is the price to pay.That is entirely in character and consistent is my opinion.Also,I don't see the people having same problems if we replace Lois with Jimmy or Jon or whatever in that situation(Jimmy dies and Clark goes evil).I firmly believe it's people being petty with opinions going "superman went bad just cause his girlfriend died.ha!ha!ha!".
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 04-11-2021 at 12:12 AM.
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  15. #3990
    Spectacular Member atomicskull's Avatar
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    I feel like Superman has a lack of cool moments.

    -Batman had the whole "I know your secret" thing and also taking out White Martians with a lighter in Morrison's JLA
    -Mera taking out the whole Justice League in Hitch's run
    -Green Arrow's whole "I'll let you have that one" speech towards Batman in the Injustice 2 comic
    -Wildcat taking on the Injustice Society by himself in Johns JSA

    It's funny because a lot of badass moments are used against Superman often. I'm sure Superman has these moments of awesome. Hell I know he has these moments but they are so few and far between.

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