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  1. #3991
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicskull View Post
    I feel like Superman has a lack of cool moments.

    -Batman had the whole "I know your secret" thing and also taking out White Martians with a lighter in Morrison's JLA
    -Mera taking out the whole Justice League in Hitch's run
    -Green Arrow's whole "I'll let you have that one" speech towards Batman in the Injustice 2 comic
    -Wildcat taking on the Injustice Society by himself in Johns JSA

    It's funny because a lot of badass moments are used against Superman often. I'm sure Superman has these moments of awesome. Hell I know he has these moments but they are so few and far between.
    I remember reading once that someone did an analysis of Superman covers in the past few decades, and overwhelmingly Superman was getting his ass beat or cringing in pain on them. DC has tried very hard to show that Supes isn’t “perfect” or “unbeatable” but all it’s done is been the worst of both worlds. The ones who believe he is those things don’t read comics anyway and Superman fans have to sit through him being a jobber. That said Supes has gotten some badass moments recently in Scott Snyder’s JL run. That Jimenez punch on World Forger is absolutely iconic.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  2. #3992
    Spectacular Member atomicskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I remember reading once that someone did an analysis of Superman covers in the past few decades, and overwhelmingly Superman was getting his ass beat or cringing in pain on them. DC has tried very hard to show that Supes isn’t “perfect” or “unbeatable” but all it’s done is been the worst of both worlds. The ones who believe he is those things don’t read comics anyway and Superman fans have to sit through him being a jobber. That said Supes has gotten some badass moments recently in Scott Snyder’s JL run. That Jimenez punch on World Forger is absolutely iconic.
    Ugh I'm tired of Superman jobbing all the time. I feel like this is a recent development because reading Superman comics in the late 90s into the mid 2000s i don't remember him being treated like that.

  3. #3993
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I think,in a shared universe everycharacter needs to job.It has to be everyone.Otherwise,it ain't fair.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  4. #3994
    Spectacular Member atomicskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I think,in a shared universe everycharacter needs to job.It has to be everyone.Otherwise,it ain't fair.
    Batman seems immune to it.

  5. #3995
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicskull View Post
    Batman seems immune to it.
    Not just batman.Harley and any character wb deems more worth it.And Characters that writers more lean towards.I mean,if i have superman and say goku in same universe.I would be leaning towards goku.If i had batman and goku in same universe.Batman would get wrecked.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  6. #3996
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I think,in a shared universe everycharacter needs to job.It has to be everyone.Otherwise,it ain't fair.
    I think "jobbing" is itself the problem. It just means losing in a manner that isn't compelling or comes across lazy. I'd argue that every character needs to lose at times, but it should be well-reasoned and reflect an actual shortcoming of the character as opposed to making them incompetent so the other hero can look cool.

    The Batman/Superman fight in Hush is a solid one where both Bruce and Clark are played to their strengths and Bruce has to beat a mind-controlled Clark by using his own character against him when it's clear he's not a physical match. Neither of them looks bad.

    And then you have shit like Batman having five kinds of Kyrptonite in his belt while in the Dark Multiverse that affect Supermen from other universes because the fight needs to end before it begins. Shoutouts to Metal.

    I think only immature fans need their hero to win all the time. Most of us just don't want to read "lol Kryptonite, Superman is useless" when he's spent his career learning to deal with it the same way Bruce has with bullets. It's not like Batman becomes a joke when someone pulls a gun, but Clark can't figure out how to fight a GL who simulates it with his ring or Bruce reaching for a sliver of it when he fights Lex and Metallo on the regular? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I remember reading once that someone did an analysis of Superman covers in the past few decades, and overwhelmingly Superman was getting his ass beat or cringing in pain on them. DC has tried very hard to show that Supes isn’t “perfect” or “unbeatable” but all it’s done is been the worst of both worlds. The ones who believe he is those things don’t read comics anyway and Superman fans have to sit through him being a jobber. That said Supes has gotten some badass moments recently in Scott Snyder’s JL run. That Jimenez punch on World Forger is absolutely iconic.
    They don't push back on Batgod which is the weird thing. He sells, I get it, but they're going to keep at it until he doesn't and then suddenly he'll be vulnerable again. They're just ashamed of Superman and they keep shooting him in the foot and wondering why they can't spike sales. I think when DC stops apologizing for the character he'll probably start appealing more to people.

    Quote Originally Posted by atomicskull View Post
    Batman seems immune to it.
    He doesn't do it as much anymore, but it still happens. He just has so many books where he's winning it seems hard to notice.
    Last edited by Robanker; 04-11-2021 at 02:13 AM.

  7. #3997
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicskull View Post
    I feel like Superman has a lack of cool moments.
    He's got far more than most. I can name about two cool moments from Green Arrow, not counting the one from Injustice 2 which isn't even from a canon comic.

    Just off the top of my head:

    * Curb stomping and terrifying the Elite into thinking he was going to kill them.

    * The "where's the cure for cancer" speech to Luthor from Up, Up and Away.

    * His battle with Doomsday in The Death of Superman and subsequent return.

    * His warning Batman that if he tries to punch him again he'll break his hand just by standing there.

  8. #3998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I remember reading once that someone did an analysis of Superman covers in the past few decades, and overwhelmingly Superman was getting his ass beat or cringing in pain on them. DC has tried very hard to show that Supes isn’t “perfect” or “unbeatable” but all it’s done is been the worst of both worlds. The ones who believe he is those things don’t read comics anyway and Superman fans have to sit through him being a jobber. That said Supes has gotten some badass moments recently in Scott Snyder’s JL run. That Jimenez punch on World Forger is absolutely iconic.
    You wouldn't happen to have a link to this analysis? No offense intended, but this sounds like something greatly exaggerated.

  9. #3999
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    So what the hell does kryptoninite even do? Even if it makes Superman sick, doesn't he still have his invulnerability??

  10. #4000
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicskull View Post
    I feel like Superman has a lack of cool moments.

    -Batman had the whole "I know your secret" thing and also taking out White Martians with a lighter in Morrison's JLA
    -Mera taking out the whole Justice League in Hitch's run
    -Green Arrow's whole "I'll let you have that one" speech towards Batman in the Injustice 2 comic
    -Wildcat taking on the Injustice Society by himself in Johns JSA

    It's funny because a lot of badass moments are used against Superman often. I'm sure Superman has these moments of awesome. Hell I know he has these moments but they are so few and far between.
    You can only be so cool when you're doing something that everyone expects of you. That's why Superman is often called boring when he's being a good guy or because he succeeds at being a good guy.

    Arguably, the reason why people hate evil Superman now is because it's so predictable thus looping back to why people thought Superman was boring in the first place.

  11. #4001
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicskull View Post
    I feel like Superman has a lack of cool moments.

    -Batman had the whole "I know your secret" thing and also taking out White Martians with a lighter in Morrison's JLA
    -Mera taking out the whole Justice League in Hitch's run
    -Green Arrow's whole "I'll let you have that one" speech towards Batman in the Injustice 2 comic
    -Wildcat taking on the Injustice Society by himself in Johns JSA

    It's funny because a lot of badass moments are used against Superman often. I'm sure Superman has these moments of awesome. Hell I know he has these moments but they are so few and far between.
    Didn't he curb stomp the entire Justice League in both the Whedon and Snyder versions? Both of which have have way more mainstream audiences seeing that than an average Justice League comic.

  12. #4002
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Didn't he curb stomp the entire Justice League in both the Whedon and Snyder versions? Both of which have have way more mainstream audiences seeing that than an average Justice League comic.
    The fact that he was basically evil make that scene just another example of Superman as the most mentally weak of the JL.

  13. #4003
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    You can only be so cool when you're doing something that everyone expects of you. That's why Superman is often called boring when he's being a good guy or because he succeeds at being a good guy.

    Arguably, the reason why people hate evil Superman now is because it's so predictable thus looping back to why people thought Superman was boring in the first place.
    This applies to practically every superhero in DC and even in Marvel. So it's weird logic that people would think Superman is boring for doing what is expected of him in the way he is expected to do it, but we're not applying that to everyone else when they do exactly the same thing.

  14. #4004
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    The fact that he was basically evil make that scene just another example of Superman as the most mentally weak of the JL.
    And I can see why Supes fans here wouldn’t like that aspect but that doesn’t really come up when I talk with most casual/non-comics audiences about it. Usually just jokes that the rest of the Lesguw is useless with him around, granted this was more in the Whedon cut but Snyder also had elements of that.

  15. #4005
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    He's got far more than most. I can name about two cool moments from Green Arrow, not counting the one from Injustice 2 which isn't even from a canon comic.

    Just off the top of my head:

    * Curb stomping and terrifying the Elite into thinking he was going to kill them.

    * The "where's the cure for cancer" speech to Luthor from Up, Up and Away.

    * His battle with Doomsday in The Death of Superman and subsequent return.

    * His warning Batman that if he tries to punch him again he'll break his hand just by standing there.
    I'd add using a drop of his blood to shatter Wonder Woman's magic blade in For Tomorrow. The "three generations" punch in Snyder's recent Justice League arc that KO'd the World Forger and basically shattered the planet, and throwing Lobo into space in American Alien.

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