Controversial Superman Opinions

[Jim Kelly]

Reading Silver Age comics recently, it's really jarring to come across the Earth 1 Sam Lane who's a nice farmer not unlike Jonathon Kent.

So imagine how jarring it is for me--used to the sweet Sam and Ella from Pittsdale, parents of Lois and Lucy, drawn so charmingly by the great Kurt Schaffenberger--every time I see the hawk-ish General Lane in the comics or on the screen. It makes me want to throw up.

D.C. didn't need yet another high ranking hawk in the military who does horrible things in the name of some weird U.S. jingoism--they already had a generous supply of those from other comics. I served in the Canadian military, but I believe that the U.S. military is a respectable institution, as well, and the majority of people in it are good, honest people. Why do comic book writers want to malign their own miltary so much with these over the top scenery chewing caricatures? It burns my biscuits.

If they wanted to say that Sam had been in the miltary in his younger days, maybe even was in a war or two, but then retired to his quiet life in Pittsdale with Ella to raise their two or three daughters--that would be okay. But the idea that not only does the over-achieving Lois Lane have one of the top ranking generals in the U.S. military as a father, but he also happens to be involved in covert operations to undermine Superman and other super-heroes--well that's some terribly convenient coincidences, the sort that those silly "Silver Ages" were accused of fostering, according to the fans that now think the current comics are so much more serious and sensible.

The re-invented General Sam Lane character is among my top ten Superman peeves.

[Adekis]

"Thunderbolt" gets knocked but the weird thing I find for many of the "post-crisis alternatives" is that instead of pre-crisis, we actually get more of the 2000 era stuff headed up or brought from the movies by Johns. Busiek, Loeb, and Waid were major contributors but he carried a lot of it forward, though ironically doesn't seem to get much praise as a Superman creator. Legion introduces Superman to being a hero, Metallo is a military experiment, Zod is the go-to Zoner, etc. And his own stuff like Superboy being half Lex with regular Kryptonian powers.

For Superman, I mentally separate "post-Crisis" (Oct 1986 - Dec 1999) from "pre-Flashpoint" (Dec 1999 - Oct 2011). Though the "continuity shift" doesn't actually happen 'til March 2001, Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly take over Superman and Action Comics in December 1999, and I think that's as good a delineation point as any.

So a lot of those "post-Crisis alternatives" are things I'd characterize as pre-Flashpoint, and I like some of the post-Crisis versions more. Metallo being the product of a paranoid mad scientist, Zod existing solely in the pocket universe instead of having six different variations (though frankly once the post-Flashpoint Zod streamlined everything down to Just One Zod in the wake of New Krypton and Man of Steel, it was better), and yeah, Sam Lane.

I do have a fair amount of fondness for the post-Crisis era where he seems to be retired, though in general I still think I prefer the doctor version from L&C, no pun intended. It's later the pre-Flashpoint years where he goes full Thunderbolt, and that I have a real problem with.

Doesn't he sic W.R.A.I.T.H. on Superman in Unchained? That's not something I'm that interested in.

[Ascended]

I never really got the impression that Zod should make Superman "crap his pants" other than that huge push to make him relevant because he was in that movie. The original Jax, Faora, Xadu, Quex, cartoon Jax and Mala, and the original Mala (lol) are just fine if you don't use him. And if they have to make him a good menace, instead of making him "The General" as a catch-all military gimmick all they have to do is make him ruthless.

It could be just me because he's overall very popular with all of this focus and even I occasionally enjoy him quite a bit, I just like to see some villain diversity.

Oh, Zod's rise to the top of the Zone hierarchy does indeed seem to be all on DC's efforts, not really on anything the character built up to "naturally" or fans demanded. But it is what it is at this point, yknow? And yeah maybe "crap his pants" is stronger wording than is necessary, but Zod should be one of those guys that truly worries Clark. There are very solid odds of failure with Zod, he should be someone Clark takes very, very seriously. I think he *is* ruthless, and while he might not be the strongest (Non?) or smartest (Xa-Du?) or best fighter (Faora) out of the Zoners, he's probably the most overall dangerous.

I was thinking about Krypton's military just now, and whether they'd be trained in hand to hand combat (we were talking about it earlier). And while I don't think the comics have ever been too clear or consistent on that, I think it's very likely. Most versions of Krypton have large predators that Kryptonians occasionally have to scare off. The animated series had Jor-El fighting a monster as part of a fairly common science experiment and Jor did remarkably well for a scientist. In the MoS film Jor-El is practically an action hero. There are dangerous threats on many versions of the planet that the common citizen probably needs to be prepared for (the Kryptonian equivalent of us using bug spray perhaps) so if a scientist has to worry about a monster trying to eat him while taking soil samples, odds are the military is taught more melee range combat than real world soldiers.

[Adekis]

Here's a minor hot take I guess - I think Xa-Du is cooler than Zod, after Morrison's retool, and he should be used more. Especially now that Zod is increasingly more sympathetically portrayed, I think there's room to make Xa-Du into Superman's Kryptonian Nemesis, rather than Zod. There's not really any deeper thought process behind this, just that Xa-Du, the Phantom King is royally awesome, no pun intended.

action 6 2.jpg

[marhawkman]

Oh, Zod's rise to the top of the Zone hierarchy does indeed seem to be all on DC's efforts, not really on anything the character built up to "naturally" or fans demanded. But it is what it is at this point, yknow? And yeah maybe "crap his pants" is stronger wording than is necessary, but Zod should be one of those guys that truly worries Clark. There are very solid odds of failure with Zod, he should be someone Clark takes very, very seriously. I think he *is* ruthless, and while he might not be the strongest (Non?) or smartest (Xa-Du?) or best fighter (Faora) out of the Zoners, he's probably the most overall dangerous.

Well if makes sense when you think about how Zod got banished alongside a large number of his co-conspirators and troops. that gives him a premade power base to work from.

[witchboy]

So imagine how jarring it is for me--used to the sweet Sam and Ella from Pittsdale, parents of Lois and Lucy, drawn so charmingly by the great Kurt Schaffenberger--every time I see the hawk-ish General Lane in the comics or on the screen. It makes me want to throw up.

D.C. didn't need yet another high ranking hawk in the military who does horrible things in the name of some weird U.S. jingoism--they already had a generous supply of those from other comics. I served in the Canadian military, but I believe that the U.S. military is a respectable institution, as well, and the majority of people in it are good, honest people. Why do comic book writers want to malign their own miltary so much with these over the top scenery chewing caricatures? It burns my biscuits.

If they wanted to say that Sam had been in the miltary in his younger days, maybe even was in a war or two, but then retired to his quiet life in Pittsdale with Ella to raise their two or three daughters--that would be okay. But the idea that not only does the over-achieving Lois Lane have one of the top ranking generals in the U.S. military as a father, but he also happens to be involved in covert operations to undermine Superman and other super-heroes--well that's some terribly convenient coincidences, the sort that those silly "Silver Ages" were accused of fostering, according to the fans that now think the current comics are so much more serious and sensible.

The re-invented General Sam Lane character is among my top ten Superman peeves.

But what do you do with a nice farmer Sam? It sounds like a character that wouldn't have any purpose.

[Ascended]

Here's a minor hot take I guess - I think Xa-Du is cooler than Zod, after Morrison's retool, and he should be used more. Especially now that Zod is increasingly more sympathetically portrayed, I think there's room to make Xa-Du into Superman's Kryptonian Nemesis, rather than Zod. There's not really any deeper thought process behind this, just that Xa-Du, the Phantom King is royally awesome, no pun intended.

With Zod transitioning into a political frenemy, which is the most interesting he's *ever* been, I would be 100000% cool with Xa-Du the Phantom King taking over as the Big Bad of the Zone. Morrison worked some real magic with that guy's New52 update and even in the Silver Age Xa was pretty awful, in an interesting and entertaining way.

[Jim Kelly]

But what do you do with a nice farmer Sam? It sounds like a character that wouldn't have any purpose.

Why does Lois Lane's dad have to have a purpose? Can't he just be her father? They already had lots and lots of supporting characters to fill out the cast. And even more supporting characters that they shoved in the closet after the Crisis. Why does Lois have to have an important father? To me Lois is a woman who made it on her own. She came from humble beginnings, she had to fight and claw her way to gain every little bit of recognition she got. Having a big brass general as a father undermines that whole Horatio Alger story.

If they needed a megalomaniacal general of their own (rather than borrowing General Eiling or any of the other mad generals in other franchises), then they could have brought back General D.W. Derwent from the Pasko run.

It ruins the verisimilitude when every blooming character is someone of absolute importance--decorated soldiers, pulitzer prize winning journalists, captains of industry. Howabout someone that's just an ordinary Joe?

[godisawesome]

But what do you do with a nice farmer Sam? It sounds like a character that wouldn't have any purpose.

Why does Lois Lane's dad have to have a purpose? Can't he just be her father? They already had lots and lots of supporting characters to fill out the cast. And even more supporting characters that they shoved in the closet after the Crisis. Why does Lois have to have an important father? To me Lois is a woman who made it on her own. She came from humble beginnings, she had to fight and claw her way to gain every little bit of recognition she got. Having a big brass general as a father undermines that whole Horatio Alger story.

If they needed a megalomaniacal general of their own (rather than borrowing General Eiling or any of the other mad generals in other franchises), then they could have brought back General D.W. Derwent from the Pasko run.

It ruins the verisimilitude when every blooming character is someone of absolute importance--decorated soldiers, pulitzer prize winning journalists, captains of industry. Howabout someone that's just an ordinary Joe?

This is a big part of the reason why I like the idea of Sam Lane being a mid-level officer, rather than a high ranking member of the brass.

To me, the big advantage of giving Lois a military father isn’t about her dad’s usefulness as an antagonist - it’s about creating a scenario that backs up the idea of Lois as a tough-as-nails, sometimes rough-around-the-edges adventurer who had a somewhat nomadic childhood who has a bit of an anti-authority streak without it being left-over adolescent rebelliousness.

And you don’t need Sam Lane to be a high ranking officer to do that - and in fact, it would work better if Sam Lane wasn’t high ranking or even mid-level officer material during Lois and Lucy’s childhood. Imagine the kind of layers it would add to Lois’s backstory of her father had to bust his butt to get to where he is *now,* and Lois’s childhood paid some of the price for that, and while she was following in his path the hard way because of their financial situation at the time... her own idealism led to her abandoning that possible career path, leaving a bit more pain in her wake when she became a reporter.

And imagine a Colonel Lane who still very much follows orders of his superiors, and thus is part of projects decided by others that can range from good to bad, with Lois’s personal issue with him being his willingness to follow orders a bit too much in her opinion.

A nuanced and more tragicomic-sitcom -style estrangement between Lois and Sam, where they both love each their, and actually do have a lot of respect and trust for each other in most things, but just have one really rough area between them, is more what I’d want.

Lois the daughter of a General, raised with some of the privileges of her father’s rank, is not quite as impressively idealistic and determined as a Lois who’s dad was a recently “mustanged” officer originally from the enlisted ranks.

And overall I just love military brat Lois.

[DochaDocha]

But what do you do with a nice farmer Sam? It sounds like a character that wouldn't have any purpose.

Couldn't you pose the exact same question about Ma and Pa Kent?

[Vordan]

Here's a minor hot take I guess - I think Xa-Du is cooler than Zod, after Morrison's retool, and he should be used more. Especially now that Zod is increasingly more sympathetically portrayed, I think there's room to make Xa-Du into Superman's Kryptonian Nemesis, rather than Zod. There's not really any deeper thought process behind this, just that Xa-Du, the Phantom King is royally awesome, no pun intended.
action 6 2.jpg

He is awesome because he’s ridiculously over the top. With Zod there’s always the temptation to make him more hammy like Terrance Stamp, but that’s not a sympathetic characterization. It’s enjoyable and fun, but not particularly deep. Xa-Du isn’t meant to be sympathetic so I think that kind of hamminess works better, while with Zod they should adjust him to be more like the Michael Shannon version where he’s more sympathetic. Zod should really be like all those evil Supermen DC loves to make: A guy broken by tragedy who is determined to never let it happen again. (They should also use Zod instead of Kal when they want to do yet another evil Superman takes over story).

Couldn't you pose the exact same question about Ma and Pa Kent?

Well you all know how I would answer that.

[Jim Kelly]

It seems to me that in the 1960s and into the 1970s, the three most prominent Phantom Zone criminals--the ones you would see in any random panel shot of the Phantom Zone--were Jax-Ur, Professor Vakox and General Zod. And of those three Zod seemed the least threatening (and to me kind of dumb in his military outfit). I can see that the Christopher Reeve movies elevated Zod's profile, but I wonder why Jax-Ur and Vakox became so overlooked.

As a side note, I think using forms of address like "General," "Professor," and "Doctor" (for Xadu) is a bit too banal. I can understand these are just translations of the actual Kryptonian titles, but I would invent Kryptonian versions of these honourifics.

[Kuwagaton]

I'd like it if they insisted on using that to show Kryptonian pride, although it also makes me think of a bilingual person dropping "baño" in the middle of an English sentence.

Agreed about Zod though. Since I never really got into Superman II as a movie, Zod to me is the guy from back issue comics and he just doesn't come off as that big a deal.

I was thinking about Krypton's military just now, and whether they'd be trained in hand to hand combat (we were talking about it earlier). And while I don't think the comics have ever been too clear or consistent on that, I think it's very likely. Most versions of Krypton have large predators that Kryptonians occasionally have to scare off. The animated series had Jor-El fighting a monster as part of a fairly common science experiment and Jor did remarkably well for a scientist. In the MoS film Jor-El is practically an action hero. There are dangerous threats on many versions of the planet that the common citizen probably needs to be prepared for (the Kryptonian equivalent of us using bug spray perhaps) so if a scientist has to worry about a monster trying to eat him while taking soil samples, odds are the military is taught more melee range combat than real world soldiers.

It's a very reasonable assumption, I think the problem I have is the idea of someone just getting Superman's powers and smacking him around. Whether he built them up over years or just trained on how to use them, those powers represent his whole life. If a story tells me that some other Kryptonian is more effective physically, I'd rather have it be at the core of their character and not as an extension of something else about them.

Couldn't you pose the exact same question about Ma and Pa Kent?

The Kents are supporting characters, the Lanes are supporting characters of a supporting character. Even Lois' own title was called "Superman's Girlfriend" and the Lanes were a minor part.

Doesn't he sic W.R.A.I.T.H. on Superman in Unchained? That's not something I'm that interested in.

Ugh, I hated the way that played out. Sam had been in TB mode for years by that point and that story went on to do interesting things, but Unchained #2 just felt miserable.

[marhawkman]

Another Zoner who's evil enough to be a proper Super-threat: https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Val-Ty_(New_Earth)
Apparently Val-Ty is the reason Xan on Krypton was destroyed. I'm not sure of the exact details. We know that Erkol's leaders were said to be responsible for the destruction of Xan in other stories, so presumably Val-Ty is one of the leaders of Erkol? Most of the stories dealing with Erkol kinda show the Erkolians as being evil. Superman ancestors in the House of El were among the Kryptonians who founded Kryptonopolis and the Science Council... In order to oppose the evil ambitions of Erkol.

For even more fun: https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Thul-Kar_(Earth-One)
Apparently Juru's status as "unexplored" is only partially true. the Kryptonian science council can't explore it because it's the home of a cabal of WIZARDS who want to stay secret. Thul-Kar was the head wizard and used the powers of his Cabal to survive Krypton's destruction.

Another old idea is the idea of Krypton having ethnic groups and mutants. Some of the old-school Zoners had weird "mutant" powers that other Kryptonians don't.

[witchboy]

Why does Lois Lane's dad have to have a purpose? Can't he just be her father? They already had lots and lots of supporting characters to fill out the cast. And even more supporting characters that they shoved in the closet after the Crisis. Why does Lois have to have an important father? To me Lois is a woman who made it on her own. She came from humble beginnings, she had to fight and claw her way to gain every little bit of recognition she got. Having a big brass general as a father undermines that whole Horatio Alger story.

If they needed a megalomaniacal general of their own (rather than borrowing General Eiling or any of the other mad generals in other franchises), then they could have brought back General D.W. Derwent from the Pasko run.

It ruins the verisimilitude when every blooming character is someone of absolute importance--decorated soldiers, pulitzer prize winning journalists, captains of industry. Howabout someone that's just an ordinary Joe?

I don't think Sam contributed much or at all to Lois's success. Their antagonistic relationship was something for her to get past.
The Kents purpose is to ground Clark to humanity. They can be a source of support to Clark and Lois. If Sam is cut of the same cloth as the Kents, it makes him redundant.