Controversial Superman Opinions

[witchboy]

From what I recall, Byrne had beef with Kirby and he decided to screw with Kirby by having Barda (modeled after Kirby’s wife iirc) be forced into a porno as a way of giving Kirby the finger.

Wow that really makes the whole thing even worse than I thought. Editorial should've never let it be published, not like that.
Overlooking that - which is really really awufl - and there are things I wasn't crazy about post Crisis, like getting rid of the Superboy era which forever screwed over the Legion, but overall I really enjoyed Byrne's run. His updates for Superman and the supporting cast really breathed new life into them and brought in new facets to them. I think every fan of modern day Superman should read it.

[Will Evans]

I like the female version of Blackrock that came out in the mid-2000s.

I like that they treated the Blackrock like Superman’s version of the venom symbiote.

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman being a dick can be funny and endearing.
Superman being reckless is a form of altruistic self sacrifice i deeply admire.
Superman goofingup is partof him being only human.

[Adekis]

there are things I wasn't crazy about post Crisis, like getting rid of the Superboy era which forever screwed over the Legion, but overall I really enjoyed Byrne's run. His updates for Superman and the supporting cast really breathed new life into them and brought in new facets to them. I think every fan of modern day Superman should read it.

Funnily enough, I don't like Byrne's run all that much overall, but I love the arc with Superboy and the Legion in it, even though I think the Legion and Superman, and even Byrne's own run*, might have been better off not doing it. Just kind of one last little hurrah for that weird corner of DC we used to call Smallville - the land of a Superboy and his Superdog.

*I seem to remember Byrne saying that he wanted to do a little bit more of an inexperienced Superman, and he thought he'd be able to do that more than he was, that if he'd known how limited he was going to be on that front, he probably would have kept Superboy. Interesting.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I’ve been vocal that I’m not a fan of Snyder’s vision of Superman at all. But I would still rather take him for a Superman sequel than JJ Abrams. I’m not even a particularly big Star Trek or Star Wars fan, and I don’t like labeling creators as hacks....but that guy is totally a hack.
And I’d unironically be exited for a Rian Johnson Superman movie.

[Adekis]

I’ve been vocal that I’m not a fan of Snyder’s vision of Superman at all. But I would still rather take him for a Superman sequel than JJ Abrams. I’m not even a particularly big Star Trek or Star Wars fan, and I don’t like labeling creators as hacks....but that guy is totally a hack.
And I’d unironically be exited for a Rian Johnson Superman movie.

Funnily enough, before The Rise of Skywalker came out, I was totally on board with the idea of JJ Abrams doing Superman - albeit with Henry Cavill and Amy Adams, as I am aggressively against a reboot. I still knew that JJ was a hack, but I thought he might be the kind of hack that the Superman franchise needs. And I think this is still possible, but I'm so salty about Rise of Skywalker that just... it's kind of hard for me to imagine wanting JJ to do anything right now.

Rian Johnson on a Superman movie would be absolutely amazing, but I doubt he'd be interested. Still! If it were possible, I'd be so hyped!

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Funnily enough, before The Rise of Skywalker came out, I was totally on board with the idea of JJ Abrams doing Superman - albeit with Henry Cavill and Amy Adams, as I am aggressively against a reboot. I still knew that JJ was a hack, but I thought he might be the kind of hack that the Superman franchise needs. And I think this is still possible, but I'm so salty about Rise of Skywalker that just... it's kind of hard for me to imagine wanting JJ to do anything right now.

Rian Johnson on a Superman movie would be absolutely amazing, but I doubt he'd be interested. Still! If it were possible, I'd be so hyped!

Yes thank you! That is close to my experience too. Hell maybe his Superman would be better crafted than Snyder’s attempts, but knowing him I’d probably not respect it because it would probably be nothing but an imitation of something before just as of course he just couldn’t resist making last Jedi a pale imitation of Return of the Jedi just as Into Darkness is just a worse Wrath of Khan or Force Awakens just a New Hope.

[godisawesome]

Funnily enough, before The Rise of Skywalker came out, I was totally on board with the idea of JJ Abrams doing Superman - albeit with Henry Cavill and Amy Adams, as I am aggressively against a reboot. I still knew that JJ was a hack, but I thought he might be the kind of hack that the Superman franchise needs. And I think this is still possible, but I'm so salty about Rise of Skywalker that just... it's kind of hard for me to imagine wanting JJ to do anything right now.

Rian Johnson on a Superman movie would be absolutely amazing, but I doubt he'd be interested. Still! If it were possible, I'd be so hyped!

Eh, give Abrams a good co-writer, like he had with Lawrence Kasdan on The Force Awakens, and he’s pretty good. Similarly, watch Rian Johnson to make sure he doesn’t end up making Lois Lane fawn over a bland and mopey Lex Luthor at the expense of her character, and he’s most definitely good.

The Rise of Skywalker had to deal with the fact that the Last Jedi just didn’t give the younger cast any story worth writing about, and LFL starting to agree with Johnson that Kylo was somehow worth sacrificing Rey’s character and Finn’s significance for... but ignoring that even as screwed up as Johnson’s take on Rey and Kylo was, he was still supposed to be the main villain. Palpatine and all the assorted issues that came with him are because LFL demanded Kylo not be the main villain, that Rey care about and eventually kiss him, and Abrams having a freakishly short development time and enough awareness to determine that Rey couldn’t work in a story so invested in Kylo without something else.

Don’t get me wrong, The Rise of Skywalker sucked... but that was kind of inevitable when a story featuring a girl main hero and a black co-lead gets hijacked to be about two sad white guys and their melodramatic man-pain, with the surviving white guy being the school shooter the female character is parasitically strapped to because of his family legacy.

...Sorry, just making a little rant there. The Force Awakens simply strikes me as a better film than The Last Jedi, though I think having Lawrence Kasdan help with the writing is one of the things that helped that be true. Abrams is still very much a “producer/director” as compared to a “writer/director”; I have absolute faith in his ability to direct actors and craft a visually entertaining film, but Kasdan was the guy who helped work out stuff like Han and Kylo’s bridge confrontation, and Finn being an ex-Stormtrooper. The character aspects of The Force Awakens utterly murder their counterparts in The Last Jedi, and the Last Jedi is just as derivative as The Firce Awakens... it’s just got a hipster attitude about it.

Give Abrams a good script and partner on a Superman project, and I think you’d probably get fantastic performances and chemistry. Give him a bad script... and, well, you’d get a bad movie. I mean, if you gave him a Superman The Animated Series Adaptation, I think you’d hit gold: at that point, his main job would just be to make sure that things stay fun, and that Lex Luthor remains intimidating, and he was never bad at handling bad guys.

I actually WOULD be excited about Rian Johnson doing Superman... but I think he’d be better off with new actors and a fresh start to do so; his quirky sense of humor would be a welcome addition to the Clark Kent and Daily Planet side of the story, and his cinematography is always top notch. I would, however, probably make sure more than one person was working on the story - The Last Jedi was severely undercooked as a script and a liability towards the established leads, and while I trust Johnson with his own toys, I’m leery at the prospect of giving him someone else’s.

[The World]

It's been a minute since I've seen TFA but I recall it basically being 2+ hours of call backs to a much better movie in ANH. Filled with bizarre jumps in character skills like Finn going from getting destroyed by a random stormtrooper to making Kylo Ren struggle. Weird coincidences like the Millenium Falcon being 10 minutes away from where Rey worked, her knowing how to expertly pilot it, and then encountering Han Solo 15 minutes later. Or in general the rehashed Rebels vs Empire plotline from the original trilogy. TFA basically set up the whole trilogy for failure in it's complete soullessness and fear of it's own fanbase.

[DochaDocha]

Yeah, the Sequel Trilogy just sours me to Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams' taking over licensed work. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their original work, but if they're expected to revive a licensed property that already has a core group of fans, these guys' work on Star Wars seem to represent the extreme ends of stuff you don't want to see: repetition, or subverting expectations for the sake of subversion. I'm not going to boycott these guys simply because I didn't like the Star Wars work, but their Star Wars work isn't going to instill any confidence in me, either.

BTW, I'll defend this aspect of TFA. Kylo wasn't able to paste Finn right away because he was clearly physically handicapped in the fight. There was a big deal about how Chewie's bowcaster is a monstrous weapon, and Kylo took a direct blast from it.

[Adekis]

None of y'all gonna bring up "Knives Out"? The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie by a lot, ya'll are wrong for dissing it, but Knives Out is the bigger reason I'd want to see Rian Johnson do a sequel to BvS if he was interested - it's a total masterpiece.

[The World]

None of y'all gonna bring up "Knives Out"? The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie by a lot, ya'll are wrong for dissing it, but Knives Out is the bigger reason I'd want to see Rian Johnson do a sequel to BvS if he was interested - it's a total masterpiece.

Yeah I got a real Superman vibe from Le Blanc from Knives Out. It was a great movie. I wouldn't mind a Rain Johnson lead production frankly.

[DochaDocha]

None of y'all gonna bring up "Knives Out"? The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie by a lot, ya'll are wrong for dissing it, but Knives Out is the bigger reason I'd want to see Rian Johnson do a sequel to BvS if he was interested - it's a total masterpiece.

I didn't see Knives Out, but I know that Rian Johnson directed the Breaking Bad episode "Ozymandias," and I have zero complaints about that.

[stargazer01]

saw this today... I don't like it at all. Superman was the first superhero. This feels dishonest. Glad the movies have ignored it.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

saw this today... I don't like it at all. Superman was the first superhero. This feels dishonest. Glad the movies have ignored it.

Assuming the Black Adam movie ever gets made, the JSA is going to be a thing that happened in this universe. Never really thought that takes away from Bruce and Clark since I never really saw the big deal about who came first.