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  1. #4036
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Always struggled to get into Superman comics. I'm from the .. he's boring demo though Jon's intro and Supersons got me reading the superverse comics. Unpopular opinion golden age Supernam comics are the most entertaining.

    Superman is very flawed and a d**k to Lois but the stories are cheesy and have a charm.

    Superman is in those comics is all powerful and he acts like it. There's shenanigans and comedy. Superman saving planets boring.

  2. #4037
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaVi View Post
    and none of them are seen by readers as a murderer or a US dog.
    Wonder Woman would like to have words with you.

  3. #4038
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaVi View Post
    and none of them are seen by readers as a murderer or a US dog.
    WW killing Max is still used by casual fans and even non-comic book readers as an excuse for why she's a cold-blooded killer. They even brought it up again her comic late last year. (Thank goodness the movie didn't have her kill Max Lord or else we would never be able to shake it off). Even after MoS, people still don't associate killing with Superman's character.

    And it would never make for Wonder Woman to work under the government, she's not a US citizen.

  4. #4039
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    WW killing Max is still used by casual fans and even non-comic book readers as an excuse for why she's a cold-blooded killer. They even brought it up again her comic late last year. (Thank goodness the movie didn't have her kill Max Lord or else we would never be able to shake it off). Even after MoS, people still don't associate killing with Superman's character.

    And it would never make for Wonder Woman to work under the government, she's not a US citizen.
    Not that it's stopped DC from trying.

  5. #4040
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Wonder Woman has it almost as bad as Superman, maybe even worse, in terms of being misused by DC and misunderstood by her own fanbase. Honestly tragic.
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  6. #4041
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Wonder Woman has it almost as bad as Superman, maybe even worse, in terms of being misused by DC and misunderstood by her own fanbase. Honestly tragic.
    For all the complaints, like 95% of DC comic characters get treated worse than Superman. Superman really only gets treated badly when compared to Batman. For all the complaints I have about how Lois gets treated, even she gets treated better than like 90% of the characters DC has.

    I guess my "controversial" take here would be that as Superman fans we actually have it pretty good when compared to most other comic characters.

  7. #4042
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    While Superman Returns has plenty of issues, calling Superman a deadbeat isn't accurate. It's not accurate to call him that in YJ either.

  8. #4043
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    WW killing Max is still used by casual fans and even non-comic book readers as an excuse for why she's a cold-blooded killer. They even brought it up again her comic late last year. (Thank goodness the movie didn't have her kill Max Lord or else we would never be able to shake it off). Even after MoS, people still don't associate killing with Superman's character.

    And it would never make for Wonder Woman to work under the government, she's not a US citizen.
    Superman is associated with the destruction of metropolis and becoming a psicipata when he Lois dies. ww is not American but he is from the earth, superman is not even from the earth and yet he is the government dog.

  9. #4044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    While Superman Returns has plenty of issues, calling Superman a deadbeat isn't accurate. It's not accurate to call him that in YJ either.
    It’s hyperbolic, but it’s a closer-to-truth criticism for Returns than YJ. In YJ, Superman makes no choice that contributes to Conner’s creation, while in Returns, he “hit it and quit it” with Lois and ran off to go explore Krypton again. While his genuine distance from Earth and ignorance of Lois’s pregnancy are better than nothing, he still acts irresponsibly in that instance (like he does with Earth and Luthor), because of the film’s desire to try and make his disappearance occur both in and out of universe without thinking.
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  10. #4045
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    With YJ, the problem was never with his initial reaction. That was perfectly in character for Clark to be weirded out and not get involved at first, and it is true for the characters that Batman is the one more comfortable with being a father figure and sympathizing with Connor (anything is better than him snidely calling Connor "the Clone").

    But they wanted it to be the resolution to Connor's season 1 arc, so they had Clark come round in the season finale, meaning he spent a year ignoring this kid. It's really something that should have been resolved mid-season. Because it's not just diehard Superman fans who take issue with this for him not being "perfect," I've seen many show-only fans bash Clark for being mean to Connor. So it had the side effect of being another adaptation where Superman comes across as a boring jerk.

  11. #4046
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    With YJ, the problem was never with his initial reaction. That was perfectly in character for Clark to be weirded out and not get involved at first, and it is true for the characters that Batman is the one more comfortable with being a father figure and sympathizing with Connor (anything is better than him snidely calling Connor "the Clone").

    But they wanted it to be the resolution to Connor's season 1 arc, so they had Clark come round in the season finale, meaning he spent a year ignoring this kid. It's really something that should have been resolved mid-season. Because it's not just diehard Superman fans who take issue with this for him not being "perfect," I've seen many show-only fans bash Clark for being mean to Connor. So it had the side effect of being another adaptation where Superman comes across as a boring jerk.
    Mid season definitely would have worked better, though post-phoning it till the finale allowed them to position Lex as the “bad parent with an in” before hand as part of the massive double feint as to the mole’s identity.

    ...I really just want someone to propose they make some spinoff tv shows or movies to the show just t9 cover everything else in it, though. I’d just as gladly watch Nolan North talk to himself to show Clark and Conner becoming brothers as to see Jason Todd’s tenure with the team, and as much as a I never cared for Roy Harper or Cheshire before the show, they’ve got me shipping it now!
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  12. #4047
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    For all the complaints, like 95% of DC comic characters get treated worse than Superman. Superman really only gets treated badly when compared to Batman. For all the complaints I have about how Lois gets treated, even she gets treated better than like 90% of the characters DC has.

    I guess my "controversial" take here would be that as Superman fans we actually have it pretty good when compared to most other comic characters.
    You're not wrong, but I think it's also a matter of amplification.

    Wonder Woman has one book. And she's often mismanaged in it, to a much worse degree than Clark. But it's one book, and easy to overlook/ignore. Clark has multiple books, and is mismanaged in each. He often has bigger roles in Events, and while both he and Diana are mistreated there, his larger role makes his mismanagement more obvious and glaring. Clark's larger profile makes DC's mistakes with him bigger too.

    And.....90% of DC's heroes simply aren't Superman. I hate it when my personal favorites get shat upon by DC, but we're talking about C- and D-listers who don't really matter in the grand scheme. But Clark? Mistreating Clark is sort of like, I dunno, spitting on the flag or kicking your grandmother. It just shouldn't be done.
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  13. #4048
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I think Superman fans can know intellectually that other characters get treated far worse, but fandoms are going to be concerned primarily for the thing they are a fan of.

    Like if a B or C lister gets treated worse than Superman, we understand on principle that it is bad. But fans can't muster up energy to get offended or upset too much for stuff outside their fandom. It's human nature. All fandoms are like this. Like if a show you really love gets cancelled, is hearing from some a fan of an unrelated show saying theirs got cancelled after less seasons than yours going to make you feel better?

    No, you'd feel nothing at all.

  14. #4049
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    Superman is also the original superhero and megastar of DC. He was the first superhero on the radio, in theaters, on cartoons, live action TV, and pretty much every other medium there is.

    I sometimes feel like when the comics can’t manage anything stable with Superman, it’s usually a sign the editorial isn’t doing so hot with the rest of the universe.
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  15. #4050
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Superman is also the original superhero and megastar of DC. He was the first superhero on the radio, in theaters, on cartoons, live action TV, and pretty much every other medium there is.

    I sometimes feel like when the comics can’t manage anything stable with Superman, it’s usually a sign the editorial isn’t doing so hot with the rest of the universe.
    Eh, I wouldn't really that. There's been times Superman's comics have been fine but others were fairing poorer and being mismanaged and that goes vice-versa. No one character is ever that particular important.

    Well, except Batman I guess. When he underperforms, then you know DC's in trouble.

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