Controversial Superman Opinions

[Adekis]

To whom are you referring when you say 'secondary character's for Superman? I got serious about collecting his two zillion monthly titles during the triangle years and loved the richness of the vast supporting cast at the planet and in Smallville. So I am curious about which could be the dead weight

Totally agreed. That was the period that most made Metropolis feel like a strong setting, a real lived-in city. In my opinion, every single supporting Superman character is at their absolute pinnacle during the Triangle Era, except for Jimmy Olsen, Lex Luthor, and maybe Cat Grant, because I think I actually prefer her under Wolfman.

And, er, Superman and Clark himself, who get better as the post-Crisis era goes on, but whom I probably prefer in a good few other eras.

[manwhohaseverything]

"electric lady"? You mean Livewire? I can't think of any book where she was boring.

Yeah!that one.it was just boring for me.But,she was atleast an improvement to the team super..

[The World]

Not every problem with Superman is writers trying to be realistic.

Sure, but if you're a writer on Superman and you're literally saying to yourself "They flying dog doesn't make sense, we've got to do something about it" You have to ask yourself why you're here and not on the Question or Batman or something.

Part of the issue with the modern/post-crisis world is that it just has no heart. Like it's telling that the most storied period of Post-Crisis Superman's publication is the Triangle era which is mainly known for it's showing of technical skill in coordination and planning than anything else. Lana Lang functionally didn't even work within the confines of the Post-crisis universe but she still outlived just about everything the Post-Crisis writers came up with in terms of characters.

That's why Post-Crisis Superman will never really inspire anyone, because he has no heart. That scene where Morrison has Superman flick the Kandorians is so powerful precisely because it was preceded by years of Post-Crisis Superman being a complete defeatist in those same situations. It's the irony of Post-Crisis Superman. He puts off doing more because he wants to be inspirational instead, but he understands the people around him so poorly that he can't really comprehend what would inspire them in the first place. So instead everyone gravitates to Batman instead.

[SiegePerilous02]

Sure, but if you're a writer on Superman and you're literally saying to yourself "They flying dog doesn't make sense, we've got to do something about it" You have to ask yourself why you're here and not on the Question or Batman or something.

Part of the issue with the modern/post-crisis world is that it just has no heart. Like it's telling that the most storied period of Post-Crisis Superman's publication is the Triangle era which is mainly known for it's showing of technical skill in coordination and planning than anything else. Lana Lang functionally didn't even work within the confines of the Post-crisis universe but she still outlived just about everything the Post-Crisis writers came up with in terms of characters.

That's why Post-Crisis Superman will never really inspire anyone, because he has no heart. That scene where Morrison has Superman flick the Kandorians is so powerful precisely because it was preceded by years of Post-Crisis Superman being a complete defeatist in those same situations. It's the irony of Post-Crisis Superman. He puts off doing more because he wants to be inspirational instead, but he understands the people around him so poorly that he can't really comprehend what would inspire them in the first place. So instead everyone gravitates to Batman instead.

I think a period that lasted as long as the post-Crisis iteration of Superman did wouldn't have lasted as long if it lacked good stories or inspirational moments. I'm generally on your side that post-Crisis Superman kind sucks, but it was the foundation for some successful adaptations and was one of the highest selling IPs on the publishing side, so it worked for a lot of people. It did contribute to Batman overtaking him in popularity, but I think that was always inevitable to some degree. It maybe just wouldn't have been as severe if some post-Crisis ideas didn't gain traction.

I do 100% agree that the mentality that stuff like Krypto has no place in Superman's world is incredibly stupid though. Like as a writer of superhero comics if you have no appreciation for the fun and simple idea of a super powered loyal dog, your inner child is either dead or you're in the wrong business (or just writing the wrong character).

[manwhohaseverything]

I honestly think,they should just let postcrisis be the main guy or whatever with whatever the generally agreed as what is "classic" traits by the proponents.Just pump out else worlds.For people,who want superman and not the baggage.Superman having not enough wide variety of stories is the characters problem.

[Adekis]

Young Clark was the best Superboy, and I've slowly come to realize that I don't care for Kon as much as I used to. It's nothing specific that I can point to, it's just that if you asked me to create my ideal version of the Super-Verse from the ground up, Kon wouldn't be in it. Neither would Jon.

[phantom1592]

Young Clark was the best Superboy, and I've slowly come to realize that I don't care for Kon as much as I used to. It's nothing specific that I can point to, it's just that if you asked me to create my ideal version of the Super-Verse from the ground up, Kon wouldn't be in it. Neither would Jon.

I've been saying that for years

I think for me it has something to do with what the purpose of them are. With Young Clark you had Superman before he was Superman. You could see him make a few more mistakes and see how he became the greatest hero ever.

With Kon and Jon... They start out as either 'lesser versions' of the Superman we know and love who will never be 'the real Superman'... or a character that they want to change and twist and modernize or whatever to where he'll never be the 'real' Superman.

Either way, I'm a LOT less interested in 'replacement' characters than I am extended origin characters.

[Marik Swift]

Young Clark was the best Superboy, and I've slowly come to realize that I don't care for Kon as much as I used to. It's nothing specific that I can point to, it's just that if you asked me to create my ideal version of the Super-Verse from the ground up, Kon wouldn't be in it. Neither would Jon.

So would you give Clark a daughter instead or no child at all?

[manwhohaseverything]

So would you give Clark a daughter instead or no child at all?

If i had my way superman would build himself a boy... An astro boy.

"Faster than a locomotive"
"Look up in the sky!it's that dumb kid of superman making a mess again"
Cue max fliescher superman music

[Shockingjustice]

Superman and the superman family will never be as big as the bat family, because half the fans don't like the majority of superman characters. They want superman to be everything and everyone. They don't even want supergirl to exist because they want superman to be the only survivor of Krypton. There is no nightwing equivalent because they want superman to be superboy and all the others to go away. Fans don't want him to have a son. They also want him to fly across the universe to do stuff and flying back to earth to do stuff in a matter of moments, so that means no one needs to look over metropolis while he's gone. Besides Jimmy and Lois, Clark can do everything with no assistants from anyone so no family team ups unless it's world ending, and if that's the case then it's the Justice League that gets called in.

There's a reason the bat family has so many threads on different characters and why nightwing sometimes beats batman in fan favorite poles, and why on this thread Clark demolished everyone in the fan favorite poles. Of course not every fan wants this, but considering the fact supergirl and Val-zod are getting more outside media and no fan is talking about it because it isn't superman or Henry Cavill say a lot about the state of the superman family. Even Donna gets talked about more on the Wonder Woman thread than Kara is on the superman thread, and she wasn't even introduced in a wonder woman comic.

[witchboy]

Superman and the superman family will never be as big as the bat family, because half the fans don't like the majority of superman characters. They want superman to be everything and everyone. They don't even want supergirl to exist because they want superman to be the only survivor of Krypton. There is no nightwing equivalent because they want superman to be superboy and all the others to go away. Fans don't want him to have a son. They also want him to fly across the universe to do stuff and flying back to earth to do stuff in a matter of moments, so that means no one needs to look over metropolis while he's gone. Besides Jimmy and Lois, Clark can do everything with no assistants from anyone so no family team ups unless it's world ending, and if that's the case then it's the Justice League that gets called in.

There's a reason the bat family has so many threads on different characters and why nightwing sometimes beats batman in fan favorite poles, and why on this thread Clark demolished everyone in the fan favorite poles. Of course not every fan wants this, but considering the fact supergirl and Val-zod are getting more outside media and no fan is talking about it because it isn't superman or Henry Cavill say a lot about the state of the superman family. Even Donna gets talked about more on the Wonder Woman thread than Kara is on the superman thread, and she wasn't even introduced in a wonder woman comic.

I love Kara and Conner and have followed all of their solo and team books. I like Jon but I am still struggling to accept the new status quo of him as a young adult and Clark in space. Steel and Natasha are well liked members of the Super family.
The Superfamily has a lot of fans. I've never had the impression that most fans don't want there to be other Super characters. If there wasn't a fan base for them after all these years they wouldn't still be around.
There are some Bat fans who only want Bats not all the sidekicks.
Frank Miller did his best to establish the solo Bat by erasing Babs, DC had killed off Jason while Dick was in the Titans, and they eventually all came back, which parallels what Byrne and DC did to the Super family.

[NaVi]

A family is created to make the universe bigger, but the Superfamily does the opposite, they minimize Superman and all his myth, the only thing he does is steal without contributing anything. for that reason many do not support them.

[Agent Z]

Superman and the superman family will never be as big as the bat family, because half the fans don't like the majority of superman characters. They want superman to be everything and everyone. They don't even want supergirl to exist because they want superman to be the only survivor of Krypton. There is no nightwing equivalent because they want superman to be superboy and all the others to go away. Fans don't want him to have a son. They also want him to fly across the universe to do stuff and flying back to earth to do stuff in a matter of moments, so that means no one needs to look over metropolis while he's gone. Besides Jimmy and Lois, Clark can do everything with no assistants from anyone so no family team ups unless it's world ending, and if that's the case then it's the Justice League that gets called in.

There's a reason the bat family has so many threads on different characters and why nightwing sometimes beats batman in fan favorite poles, and why on this thread Clark demolished everyone in the fan favorite poles. Of course not every fan wants this, but considering the fact supergirl and Val-zod are getting more outside media and no fan is talking about it because it isn't superman or Henry Cavill say a lot about the state of the superman family. Even Donna gets talked about more on the Wonder Woman thread than Kara is on the superman thread, and she wasn't even introduced in a wonder woman comic.

There are numerous threads and posts on this site and others about how the Batfamily is too big. Fans complaining about the Superman family isn't the reason its not as big as the Batfamily.

[TheRay]

It might be fun to see Superboy put on the cape just once.

[Quinlan58]

At the very least Supergirl is so vital to the franchise that even after being written out of existence by a Crisis and an editorial mandate we kept getting new versions of her until we got Kara back, and since then her book keeps getting relaunched alongside Superman's (in the New 52, in Rebirth, with Bendis, in Infinite Frontier), even if her sales aren't that strong.