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  1. #2626
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    A lot of people give Clark flack for keeping his identity as Superman secret from others but I see no problem with it. He owes no one the knowledge of knowing his secret, it's his right to keep it to himself. This idea that Clark is in the wrong because he kept his identity from Lois or Perry or Jimmy or anyone else is baffling, as if its their right to know. Just because someone has close friends or coworkers that doesn't entitle them to know every intimate or personal thing about the individual. Even being in a relationship doesn't mean the other person has to know your most guarded secrets. Relationships can end, they can end badly and then their is someone out there who knows your secret and has possible bad intentions towards you. The only caveat is if marriage is a strong possibility, in that instance then yes; one should share their secret if they intend to ask someone to commit and spend their lives together. Anything short of that then no one needs to share anything they don't want to. Clark was perfectly in the right to keep his secret to himself and it was his choice to share it when he did. Even if someone(Lois) suspected or "figured it out" he was/is under no obligation to confirm it. Superheroes keeping their secret identities secret from others is perfectly fine, its no one's right to know.

  2. #2627
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    A lot of people give Clark flack for keeping his identity as Superman secret from others but I see no problem with it. He owes no one the knowledge of knowing his secret, it's his right to keep it to himself. This idea that Clark is in the wrong because he kept his identity from Lois or Perry or Jimmy or anyone else is baffling, as if its their right to know. Just because someone has close friends or coworkers that doesn't entitle them to know every intimate or personal thing about the individual. Even being in a relationship doesn't mean the other person has to know your most guarded secrets. Relationships can end, they can end badly and then their is someone out there who knows your secret and has possible bad intentions towards you. The only caveat is if marriage is a strong possibility, in that instance then yes; one should share their secret if they intend to ask someone to commit and spend their lives together. Anything short of that then no one needs to share anything they don't want to. Clark was perfectly in the right to keep his secret to himself and it was his choice to share it when he did. Even if someone(Lois) suspected or "figured it out" he was/is under no obligation to confirm it. Superheroes keeping their secret identities secret from others is perfectly fine, its no one's right to know.
    Perry isn't just Clark's friend, he's his boss which opens up some serious ethical questions of Clark writing stories about himself for the Daily Planet. And as for Lois, seeing as how she is depicted as someone Clark wants to spend his life with, yes, she should know.

  3. #2628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Perry isn't just Clark's friend, he's his boss which opens up some serious ethical questions of Clark writing stories about himself for the Daily Planet. And as for Lois, seeing as how she is depicted as someone Clark wants to spend his life with, yes, she should know.
    I'd say no to Perry knowing, Clark can write non-Superman stories. As far as Lois, once Clark decided that he wanted to marry her then yes he should tell her. But anytime before that, whether as coworkers, casual friends or dating then no he is under no obligation to reveal his identity to her.

  4. #2629
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Superman was frightening when there weren't Dominators or Predators, just a million to one chance that a strongman would be able to lift a car overhead. It doesn't necessarily make him different in that context though, the context itself is usually what's different. Understanding the core character really doesn't take more effort than squaring the Bob Haney Batman to Brubaker, or the Adam West version with Christian Bale. Batman's got two box office juggernauts, one where he smirked as he killed and one where he was against killing to the point that the villain made it a mission to get him to do so.

    I think the most valid comparison anyway should be Doc Savage, one of the only characters that might come up as an actual influence on Superman's creation. The rest are shades of copycat.
    True, his world did change. That doesn't mean hasn't changed along with it.He is hell of a scary especially with the glowing eyes, flying, big body.. Etc. If the guy isn't scary they wouldn't have made a horror pitch with superman like Bright burn. Look at injustice or boys the guy is terrifying. That's a guy who let his shadow take over. Regardless of the financial success of such endeavours. It was actually made and it is a pattern. It shows a fundamental disconnect between the mainstream version and audience. Regardless, if a guy lifts up car and smashes it for the heck of it. The natural reaction is horror.There is a reason these pattern keep coming up. As long as the character is written to be a shadowless peter pan. The shadow will take over.

    Core of batman is that he is vigilante detective. Kill code or no kill code, goofy or brooding, good writing or bad one, jerk or no jerk. They don't dismiss that side of him no matter what. It took years for comics to atleast acknowledge superman as a strongman in superman smashes the klan. It isn't farfetched. I mean, if the guy could wear underwear on the outside for no reason at all, for years. Then he can do so with an explanation. Make it down to earth this time. Not kryptonIan symbol or coat of arms kind of explanation. That's just convoluted and trying too hard to be important . I would have gone for clark wanting s standing for strongman. People just called him superman instead .Philosophy for superman is always keep the appearance(not just costume but also the story) simple. He works better that way.if a straw hat can mean true freedom. An s can mean hope. But, don't use hammer to bluntly smash it into audiences head.

    It's a requirement for the superman character to be scary. It's his ethics and etiquette that should prove otherwise. It is a battle of fear and empathy.Horror is about presentation. If done right the alien from outer space looking like us is itself pretty scary. Also the hulk is just giant green muscled brute. Look at the hulk comics now. Superman needs that kind of redefinition that takes the entirety of the concept with action, scifi, adventure as the main part. So, that mainstream audiences can find it appealing.


    Now everyone might be thinking his superman feels like batman or something edgy or emo or outright bad. No, that isn't it. I am just putting that counter balance. To provide "umph" to the character . Superman will at the end of the day be the guy that says "don't be scared. I am here".

  5. #2630
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I'd say no to Perry knowing, Clark can write non-Superman stories. As far as Lois, once Clark decided that he wanted to marry her then yes he should tell her. But anytime before that, whether as coworkers, casual friends or dating then no he is under no obligation to reveal his identity to her.
    If they are dating, and it's serious dating that is going to lead to more intimacy, then he should absolutely tell her before it reaches that point because it gets skeevy otherwise.

    Other than that, I agree that he isn't under an obligation to tell her (or anyone else) if they are just casual friends.

  6. #2631
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Superman can scare people by giving them a happy smile more easily than Batman can with a dozen threats. In Superman's case his power will scare people in ways Batman just can't. If Kal-El says "go away or I'll make you go away." people listen. They know he can do it, and don't want to find out the hard way.

  7. #2632
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    A lot of people give Clark flack for keeping his identity as Superman secret from others but I see no problem with it. He owes no one the knowledge of knowing his secret, it's his right to keep it to himself. This idea that Clark is in the wrong because he kept his identity from Lois or Perry or Jimmy or anyone else is baffling, as if its their right to know. Just because someone has close friends or coworkers that doesn't entitle them to know every intimate or personal thing about the individual. Even being in a relationship doesn't mean the other person has to know your most guarded secrets. Relationships can end, they can end badly and then their is someone out there who knows your secret and has possible bad intentions towards you. The only caveat is if marriage is a strong possibility, in that instance then yes; one should share their secret if they intend to ask someone to commit and spend their lives together. Anything short of that then no one needs to share anything they don't want to. Clark was perfectly in the right to keep his secret to himself and it was his choice to share it when he did. Even if someone(Lois) suspected or "figured it out" he was/is under no obligation to confirm it. Superheroes keeping their secret identities secret from others is perfectly fine, its no one's right to know.
    Agreed. The way Action #662 was done was good because it was Clark coming around to understanding that being engaged was already serious enough, so that he did in fact need to come clean. But, generally speaking, the power over or burden of his life shouldn't be handed over just because they're dating.

    And though the DP side of things isn't ethical... that's actually still not the problem that people see in it. In real life there are major problems but those don't translate. Same with how old school Peter Parker took pics of Spider-Man, but actually even less harmful if anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    True, his world did change. That doesn't mean hasn't changed along with it.He is hell of a scary especially with the glowing eyes, flying, big body.. Etc. If the guy isn't scary they wouldn't have made a horror pitch with superman like Bright burn. Look at injustice or boys the guy is terrifying. That's a guy who let his shadow take over. Regardless of the financial success of such endeavours. It was actually made and it is a pattern. It shows a fundamental disconnect between the mainstream version and audience. Regardless, if a guy lifts up car and smashes it for the heck of it. The natural reaction is horror.There is a reason these pattern keep coming up. As long as the character is written to be a shadowless peter pan. The shadow will take over.
    Compared to many other similar creations, Superman was kind of advantaged in that Siegel wasn't far away in the first 30 years. There are elements he put in that he himself didn't sustain, so in the end I don't think of those things as essential.

    It's a requirement for the superman character to be scary. It's his ethics and etiquette that should prove otherwise. It is a battle of fear and empathy.Horror is about presentation. If done right the alien from outer space looking like us is itself pretty scary. Also the hulk is just giant green muscled brute. Look at the hulk comics now. Superman needs that kind of redefinition that takes the entirety of the concept with action, scifi, adventure as the main part. So, that mainstream audiences can find it appealing.
    Not to say your point here about Superman isn't a good one. But then for the Hulk... it's weird that everything has aligned and Ewing has a surprisingly popular Hulk. Yeah he's doing a good job, but he's working with what was already there. The Hulk is pretty underrated as a very complex and versatile sci-fi-fi character even if you can argue that his constant changes make it hard for people to settle for anything other than the Hulk Smash version from cartoons and very old comics as their understanding.


    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    If they are dating, and it's serious dating that is going to lead to more intimacy, then he should absolutely tell her before it reaches that point because it gets skeevy otherwise.

    Other than that, I agree that he isn't under an obligation to tell her (or anyone else) if they are just casual friends.
    The one thing I have to say is really bad is the idea of Lois having a relationship with two sides separately.
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  8. #2633
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Superman can scare people by giving them a happy smile more easily than Batman can with a dozen threats. In Superman's case his power will scare people in ways Batman just can't. If Kal-El says "go away or I'll make you go away." people listen. They know he can do it, and don't want to find out the hard way.
    This just made me think of two different animated series.

    In the first Justice League cartoon, Superman was trying to interrogate Copperhead, but completely blows it. He tried to intimidate him, but Copperhead doesn't buy it, calls him a "boyscout," and Superman is left asking himself "How does Batman do it?"

    Then in Justice League Action, Superman and Batman flip the good cop/bad cop roles, and Superman completely screws up again. However, Batman's good cop impersonation creeps out Deadshot so much that he gives in.

    I admit to liking the latter scene because the short skit is only intended for comedy, while completely hating the former. I'm more than willing to give the second one a pass because part of the joke is that neither guy can succeed if they invert their roles, and at some meta-level you can use it as a critique on how the characters have been written throughout the years. Oh yeah, and the skit is funny. Nonetheless, you can sort of see how there's a pervasive belief that Superman is just not scary, and not capable of being scary, and this inability to be scary makes him less effective at his job.

  9. #2634
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    But, the problem with that is superman becomes christ and batman becomes the grand inquisitor. Superman sets a bar too high for anyone to be like him. Batman doesn't. So they reject him. They bow to batman, because he gives them something to flock towards . They respect him. They view Superman with contempt for giving them the burden of freedom to choose.

    “In place of the clear and rigid ancient law, You made man decide about good and evil for himself, with no other guidance than Your example. But did it never occur to You that man would disregard Your example, even question it, as well as Your truth, when he was subjected to so fearful a burden as freedom of choice?”
    In the end, superman as idol will lose.
    "Go and do not come back . . . do not come back at all . . . ever . .. ever!"
    He would have to leave into the town's dark streets and squares.

    That isn't much of a happy ending. If we are making superman into a saint like figure and comicbook fandom as analogies of mankind.So, bringing him back to what he was originally would be better."A powerful man who doesn't seek control you nor is he looking to set an impossible example". A man who seeks to do the right thing for its own sake. Who puts ideal before everything and to his bitter end, because he himself comes short of it.

    If you write him as a god or saint. All good and powerfull, then people will have the devil tear him down or hollow him out.

    He will bring him down to the level of man.

    After that, they will show contempt towards him for being a god in the first place. By having him humiliated by a righteous flawed man.Worse turn the god into devil himself. It is only natural.
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    “I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    So you're arguing that because people are petty, don't write Superman as what we could be because then petty people won't like him. I'm good, dude. I still believe that we can get over ourselves and strive to do better because I do my best to every damn day.

    If you want to tell a story about tearing down a perceived saint, you can very well make it about how deeply flawed we are that we cannot allow anyone to help us; you can make it a bad thing.

    I don't want to change Superman because Batfans don't like him. I want him to get written well, stop deferring to him and rebuild his own fan base. It doesn't have to be either or. You can have both. In the USA we are obsessed with binary choice and it bugs me there as it does here. DC has been trying to Batmanify Clark by bringing him down time and again and "humbling God" when he never was God to begin with. Just a good man with the power to do anything who chose to do good. I don't want that to change just because teenagers and emotionally stunted adults are angry with the reality that some people will just be better than them and continue to be as long as they are unwilling to change. The big message behind Kal is that YOU can be Superman of you're willing to try; to do good even when it's hard and to not turn away when others are in need. Surrendering to cynicism is as far from what the character is about as you can get.
    I've said this before elsewhere: Superman has suffered as Batman has ascended because the average comics reader (as part of the average western consumer) has grown steadily more narcissistic over the last five decades. There's less tendency to desire a good person with which to identify than there is a desire to identify with a figure that succeeds in vengefully conquering their foes. For all the "Batman's really a good guy" talk that goes around, he's easily interpreted as a guy forever trying to get even with a mugger (one of the reasons I thought Joe Chill should never have been identified, let alone caught).

  10. #2635
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post

    Compared to many other similar creations, Superman was kind of advantaged in that Siegel wasn't far away in the first 30 years. There are elements he put in that he himself didn't sustain, so in the end I don't think of those things as essential.



    Not to say your point here about Superman isn't a good one. But then for the Hulk... it's weird that everything has aligned and Ewing has a surprisingly popular Hulk. Yeah he's doing a good job, but he's working with what was already there. The Hulk is pretty underrated as a very complex and versatile sci-fi-fi character even if you can argue that his constant changes make it hard for people to settle for anything other than the Hulk Smash version from cartoons and very old comics as their understanding.
    Yes, siegel was there. But,in his second time around he wasn't given as much a leeway. Comics code became a thing and comics creators really had to be careful (they need to do with children. But that aside, this fear really did stop writers from putting in anything slightly risky) . The inherent struggle was even a theme in iron giant and it was the theme in action 188. It is a theme in astroboy. It is even a theme for goku (it could be argued that came from sun wukong. But, crazy enough sun wukong and his inspiration hanuman shared the same theme as superman) . It was released in 1954 just prior to silverage beginning . Fear of "aliens" is a natural reaction of people that can be either rational or irrational.And He has that capacity. Most things in the world has that capacity to harm. Since, he is also a vigilante it is doubled. Capacity doesn't mean actuality. If there isn't that, where is the conflict? How will Clark's empathy have any essence if it doesn't overcome fear? A fear that he himself has to struggle with, A fear of rejection. A fear that others need to as well, a fear of the unknown. These things permeate in everything that had partially or fully touched or inspired by superman.it can't be just a coincidence. Yet superman himself has left that part behind. He is being treated as messiah or moral paragon for a man to follow ? Why? Isn't an immigrant or a vigilante far more appealing or relatable ? Isn't a strongman far more physically inspirational and respectable? Superman as a character is written to never acknowledge what he Truly is. See, we can say these are not important. But, when patterns start forming disregard it isn't wise.

    I am saying superman has all these built-in ambiguities, trials and tribulations too. We just need to look at it from different perspectives. He brings in so many imageries of archetypical storys. He has the beauty and beast, pinnochio, alice in wonderland,.. Etc. Religious imageries are there but, the problem with Clark's religious imageries is that writers a blunt as a hammer with him. Religious imagery can be great as seen in immortal hulk or neon genesis evangelion or full-metal-alchemist. It has to be subtle and supplement . If they don't want to go religious thought route. They can go kant(which has been Clark's speciality ) . They can go nietezhe. But, the problem with that is, it being batman whole shtick(you know existentialism vs nihilism) . I sometimes think he is the Übermensch and clark is the god that died. Tale of dc feels like that most of the time. Anyways, that imagery has to stop. For that superman in this age of cynicism needs to stop denying he has a beast inside him like all men. Writers need to show that part and be negative about it or neutral. Superman writers kept a neutral view of superman smashing the car.



    I am speaking metaphorically ofcourse(no i am not turning superman into guts or Naruto. Naruto is as sunny as superman. A sunny person can have demons too. That another thing i want to get across ) . the beast as well as the shadow are Clark's darker impulses. Strangley enough, This can be his link to doomsday. I mean they already did the superdoom thing. I am not going for that though. I don't want clark to play doctor jekyll and mister Hyde . In mind i just only want clark to realise, he has a beast inside him to that always seeks to break a chain. He needs to realise if he breaks every chain he becomes doomsday. Anyways, his villains and superman have connections to his flaws and shadow. So clark being written feigning ignorance of his shadows,weaken his villains and confilict. Since, there is a lack of conflict for audiences to really enjoy or immerse themselves. They make clark the conflict. They make him the villain and object of their animosity many times. Story requires conflict, which requires two or more sides. As said a superman without fear will only have half the equation. Ergo doesn't work.

    Anyways, They try to make him appear more important than maybe he is supposed to be. They need to keep that in mind. Having said all these things. A Superman that doesn't appear simple might fail. After all, it's all just imaginery tales of a strange visitor from another planet.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-24-2020 at 11:09 PM.

  11. #2636
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    This just made me think of two different animated series.

    In the first Justice League cartoon, Superman was trying to interrogate Copperhead, but completely blows it. He tried to intimidate him, but Copperhead doesn't buy it, calls him a "boyscout," and Superman is left asking himself "How does Batman do it?"

    Then in Justice League Action, Superman and Batman flip the good cop/bad cop roles, and Superman completely screws up again. However, Batman's good cop impersonation creeps out Deadshot so much that he gives in.

    I admit to liking the latter scene because the short skit is only intended for comedy, while completely hating the former. I'm more than willing to give the second one a pass because part of the joke is that neither guy can succeed if they invert their roles, and at some meta-level you can use it as a critique on how the characters have been written throughout the years. Oh yeah, and the skit is funny. Nonetheless, you can sort of see how there's a pervasive belief that Superman is just not scary, and not capable of being scary, and this inability to be scary makes him less effective at his job.
    I was thinking in terms of being able to intimidate crooks into surrendering. Now that's different than intimidating them into talking though. When Superman says "give up and I won't have to hurt you." crooks actually think about it.

    Batgirl and Wondergirl vs Lobo is an example.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3ztzd8vSOw
    Lobo actually fights WG. BG he barely even pays attention to. Sure he's not trying to hurt anyone, not even Tseng. But he doesn't even bother backhanding BG. Worst he does to BG is throwing WG at her.

  12. #2637
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    In the first Justice League cartoon, Superman was trying to interrogate Copperhead, but completely blows it. He tried to intimidate him, but Copperhead doesn't buy it, calls him a "boyscout," and Superman is left asking himself "How does Batman do it?"

    Then in Justice League Action, Superman and Batman flip the good cop/bad cop roles, and Superman completely screws up again. However, Batman's good cop impersonation creeps out Deadshot so much that he gives in.
    Hated both of those. I loathe the "hurr durr Superman is incompetent" shtick. And BatGod, who succeeds when everyone else fails. The Justice League was pretty big on that at times. Yech.

    But I don't think Superman should scare common criminals that he'll murder or beat them for info. Superman doesn't (or at least shouldn't) try to scare people, and Batman does. It's not that Superman's a failure, but that that is not his goal (at least, not since the golden age when he was far less-powerful and him roughing up a thug wasn't as egregious). Superman wants to help, to save people. He takes down criminals, but his goal is first and foremost to help. That was the mindset he had when he set out. Batman wants to strike fear into the heart of criminals. He wants to catch bad guys and stop them from hurting and killing others. Yes, he also wants to help, but they are coming from two different places.

    I do think, that when something bad happens, when Superman actually uses his the full scope of his abilities in a sense where he seems out of control (whether or not he is), he should scare the living daylights out of people. Not just criminals. Generals, world leaders, etc. Which is why scaring earth people like that should almost never happen. It's not what he's about, nor should it be. The people Superman should scare while in control are the alien invaders that he will stop that have never faced anything like him. The ones where he might unleash the full force of what he can do.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 02-24-2020 at 02:44 PM.

  13. #2638
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Best intimidation I've seen from Superman in a long while was in one of the recent Bendis issues where he shakes down STAR Labs.

    All he does is float above the lab, arms crossed, looking pissed. And that is it. He doesn't do or say anything. And it starts to freak all the scientists out. What's he planning? Why's he just floating there? Holy crap, can he read minds? Are his eyes glowing? Is he giving us space cancer? Oh sh*t, I can't go to jail I have kids and college loans! F*ck he's still just floating there! What does he want???!!!

    And just like that, the entire building empties out and they surrender.

    That's how Superman intimidates someone.

    I think that's how you play it. With Batman, it's the threat of physical violence. He'll leave you in the hospital with shattered bones. Superman? Once he starts glaring at you, you're forced to remember that he's not human. He looks like us but you can't really know what's in his head. And what're you gonna do against him? You can't hurt him. You've seen big monsters like Metallo try to hurt him on the news, and it never works. You can't stop him. He's the immovable object *and* the unstoppable force. And when he's just staring at you.....maybe you start to wonder, he's got so many powers...are there some he's kept secret?

    The interesting thing with this is, there are some people who Batman can't intimidate; they're not scared of pain and that's generally all Batman uses in his intimidation; force and the threat of force. But Superman will scare them because it's not pain he's threatening them with, it's the unknown factors they dream up in their own heads about his alien-ness. But there's people who know (or at least believe) that Superman won't hurt them. So those guys, Clark can't intimidate....but Batman can.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  14. #2639
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I was thinking in terms of being able to intimidate crooks into surrendering. Now that's different than intimidating them into talking though. When Superman says "give up and I won't have to hurt you." crooks actually think about it.
    I have mixed feelings about how much crooks should be intimidated by Superman. Most logical ones would probably surrender right away if Superman caught him. On the other hand, sometimes it's nice to see how utterly pointless it is to try to get away from Supes.

    I don't mind if Superman can't scare someone into talking, but somehow he's going to get the info he needs. He's not going to throw his hands up in the air and wish Batman were there. Now I'm wondering a plot issue about that Justice League episode: if Superman sucks at interrogating, why didn't they just send Martian Manhunter to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Hated both of those. I loathe the "hurr durr Superman is incompetent" shtick. And BatGod, who succeeds when everyone else fails. The Justice League was pretty big on that at times. Yech.
    That Justice League episode was from the first season, during which Superman sucked at pretty much anything. I can't readily think of a season-one episode in which the Justice League actually needed Superman. He sure got ragdolled a lot, though. And I would agree a big part of that two-parter was just to Batgod. The episode really hammers home how much of an asset Batman is despite not having any powers. I think that's not such a bad thing, but Superman's failure and following line was really overkill.

    The Justice League Action episode does paint Superman kind of badly as a bad cop, but as the line at the end of the episode reminds us, he's quite good at everything else on the show, and I think the show backs it up. For the Justice League episode, his incompetent interrogating skills is just another thing to add to the list of grievances to have as a Superman fan. For a show that someone parodies the drama of the Justice League, I'm okay with an occasional moment when Superman is the butt of the joke. Even Batman wasn't immune to it in Justice League Action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Best intimidation I've seen from Superman in a long while was in one of the recent Bendis issues where he shakes down STAR Labs.

    All he does is float above the lab, arms crossed, looking pissed. And that is it. He doesn't do or say anything. And it starts to freak all the scientists out. What's he planning? Why's he just floating there? Holy crap, can he read minds? Are his eyes glowing? Is he giving us space cancer? Oh sh*t, I can't go to jail I have kids and college loans! F*ck he's still just floating there! What does he want???!!!

    And just like that, the entire building empties out and they surrender.

    That's how Superman intimidates someone.

    I think that's how you play it. With Batman, it's the threat of physical violence. He'll leave you in the hospital with shattered bones. Superman? Once he starts glaring at you, you're forced to remember that he's not human. He looks like us but you can't really know what's in his head. And what're you gonna do against him? You can't hurt him. You've seen big monsters like Metallo try to hurt him on the news, and it never works. You can't stop him. He's the immovable object *and* the unstoppable force. And when he's just staring at you.....maybe you start to wonder, he's got so many powers...are there some he's kept secret?

    The interesting thing with this is, there are some people who Batman can't intimidate; they're not scared of pain and that's generally all Batman uses in his intimidation; force and the threat of force. But Superman will scare them because it's not pain he's threatening them with, it's the unknown factors they dream up in their own heads about his alien-ness. But there's people who know (or at least believe) that Superman won't hurt them. So those guys, Clark can't intimidate....but Batman can.
    Yeah, I hear you. Superman shouldn't have to say anything. A stern look is all it should take. And if not a stern look, probably an exasperated or incredulous one, like "C'mon, really?" One disapproving look from Superman should instigate an implicit Socratic dialogue in the bad guys, in which they ask themselves if their scheme is going to work, then they look at Superman, and they get hit with the obvious answer: no.

    I like it when Superman gets annoyed by guys trying to get away with stuff when it's a foregone conclusion they're going to get stopped. It's one of the relatable parts of Superman's life, in that sometimes we all hate our jobs.

  15. #2640
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I guess because it's not aggressive I didn't see it as intimidation, but the STAR scene was a nice bit. The challenging and unique thing about Superman to me isn't the potential of forceful consequences but that he has legitimate disappointment when you do something dumb. Maybe that veers a little too into the "space Jesus" thing the way I say it but I think it's the same with any good cop or legal defender, wanting to see you get your crap together. I think it's a pretty unique challenge to write a two fisted genre where the main guy doesn't get by as overly intimidating when he should be especially.

    Maybe people want to see him be "cool" more often than I do. I mean they get to see Batman or Deadpool be cool all day and it's been all success. At least Superman is more often than not, still. The craziest quips to me come when he's flattened someone out and gives the impression that he's not unwilling to be friends. Losing to a guy who gives you a chance is pretty rough.
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