Controversial Superman Opinions

[Vordan]

I get a sincere feeling that a lot of writers would rather be working in Gotham with how often it crops up in Superman's books. Both Lois and Jimmy's books had to either detour or take place there. It's a shame DC doesn't invest as much into building up Metropolis.

It’s really rather pathetic how quickly Superman writers bring in Batman. Both Tomasi and Bendis are guilty of this, both used him in their first issue! But as a whole Metropolis has suffered from being profoundly underwhelming. Nobody has really devoted the time needed to fleshing it out as a setting. Bendis said he would but he hasn’t so far. It’s a real shame too because I truly believe there’s a lot of potential to be had. Frankly I think the “New York by day” vibe they’ve been going for since forever was a profoundly bad call. It’s simply too boring an aesthetic to suit Superman and his world.

[Agent Z]

I think the winner of "most underused concept" is either the 5th dimension, Almerac, or the Zone.

The Zone gets used a lot, but we don't actually know much about it. It's just a vague prison concept that might be a layer of hell or might just be a different dimension in "physical" space, or might be some kind of void between planes of reality, or might be part of limbo (depending on the story), where Zod and the other Kryptonian bad guys go between stories. Rarely does a narrative really dive into it and explore the Zone itself, despite it being used consistently for decades.

Amerac always gets ignored, despite being a giant space empire that resides squarely in the "Super" corner of cosmic DC. All we get there is Maxima and her search for a worthy consort, which is interesting and implies a lot about the culture but actually tells us very little.

And I agree with everything that's been said about the 5th dimension. Even Morrison failed to truly capture and define the place, though I did like his "story loop" concept for Vndyk....whatever his name was. Cool concept, but still does very little with the realm itself.

Speaking of Almerac, Maxima's original depiction is an embarrassment and her New 52 incarnation is a much better.

[Adekis]

The only version of Maxima I really love is the one from Armageddon 2001, but it definitely comes up fairly organically from the Maxima in the main comics at the time, and not from the New 52 version, who I can't say I really care about. I mean, I definitely don't hate her or anything, I just don't have strong feelings about her.

Actually, "Beyond the Reach of Time" from Armageddon 2001 is one of my favorite Superman "Imaginary Stories". I find it extremely compelling.

[Ascended]

Superman have so much potential on the cosmic side of things, it's a shame writers have him always bound to Metropolis. He have Almerac, Mongul, Brainiac, etc.
The simple fact that the writers wouldn't have to keep dosing Superman with PIS to make him fight against human villains, would do a great deal to the stories.

Just a war between Almerac and Mongul empire could give us an epic arc, or a entire run.

In my head, I have a whole six issue arc just about Maxima getting *married* and dealing with various kinds of political fallout from that. She's basically "Star Wars meets Game of Thrones" and I could probably spend years writing with that dynamic and never stop having fun throwing Clark into the middle of it. I mean, a space empire where the ruling family looks to incorporate powerful genetics into the royal line so they can protect their nation and things like gladiatorial combat is a regular part of entertainment? The Romans in outer space? How could you not love that concept?

Speaking of Almerac, Maxima's original depiction is an embarrassment and her New 52 incarnation is a much better.

Eh, almost every characterization from the early 80's would be considered an embarrassment today, depending on who you ask. Maxima was a queen searching for a worthy consort; it's commentary on feminism and commentary about feminism was likely perfectly valid (if thin) at the time, I'm guessing.

The new version is fine (I like her) but lacks bite. At least insofar as I'm familiar with her, I only saw her in Supergirl but I guess she's appeared a few other times since then.

[TheCape]

In my head, I have a whole six issue arc just about Maxima getting *married* and dealing with various kinds of political fallout from that. She's basically "Star Wars meets Game of Thrones" and I could probably spend years writing with that dynamic and never stop having fun throwing Clark into the middle of it. I mean, a space empire where the ruling family looks to incorporate powerful genetics into the royal line so they can protect their nation and things like gladiatorial combat is a regular part of entertainment? The Romans in outer space? How could you not love that concept?



Eh, almost every characterization from the early 80's would be considered an embarrassment today, depending on who you ask. Maxima was a queen searching for a worthy consort; it's commentary on feminism and commentary about feminism was likely perfectly valid (if thin) at the time, I'm guessing.

The new version is fine (I like her) but lacks bite. At least insofar as I'm familiar with her, I only saw her in Supergirl but I guess she's appeared a few other times since then.

Maxima appeared recently in Orlando's Wonder Woman run (around issue 753 i think), asking Diana for help in recovering the leadership in her planet and marry the woman that she loved, it was a decent arc.

[Robanker]

In my head, I have a whole six issue arc just about Maxima getting *married* and dealing with various kinds of political fallout from that. She's basically "Star Wars meets Game of Thrones" and I could probably spend years writing with that dynamic and never stop having fun throwing Clark into the middle of it. I mean, a space empire where the ruling family looks to incorporate powerful genetics into the royal line so they can protect their nation and things like gladiatorial combat is a regular part of entertainment? The Romans in outer space? How could you not love that concept?



Eh, almost every characterization from the early 80's would be considered an embarrassment today, depending on who you ask. Maxima was a queen searching for a worthy consort; it's commentary on feminism and commentary about feminism was likely perfectly valid (if thin) at the time, I'm guessing.

The new version is fine (I like her) but lacks bite. At least insofar as I'm familiar with her, I only saw her in Supergirl but I guess she's appeared a few other times since then.

That's more or less how I've thought of Maxima too. Glad to see I'm not alone in that respect.

[Ascended]

Maxima appeared recently in Orlando's Wonder Woman run (around issue 753 i think), asking Diana for help in recovering the leadership in her planet and marry the woman that she loved, it was a decent arc.

They made adult Maxima gay? Boo. Her whole thing is about securing the royal line.

Obviously I have no issue with gay characters (gods know I've defended gay Allan Scott enough), but this goes completely against everything the character was built on. Now, if they made her gay and her conflict was about her own desires conflicting with her duty as empress (as Supergirl did), then okay that's good drama and a viable enough take on Maxima I suppose (though she did express some homophobic opinions back in the day, so Diana could call her out on being closed minded)....but without the need to establish a strong heir and strengthen the royal line (conflicting with her personal desires or not), it's not Maxima anymore.

They should've just kept young Maxima from Supergirl and re-introduced adult Maxima as her disapproving, cougar mother.

That's more or less how I've thought of Maxima too. Glad to see I'm not alone in that respect.

We seem to have a lot of similar tastes, I think.

[Adekis]

They made adult Maxima gay? Boo. Her whole thing is about securing the royal line.

Obviously I have no issue with gay characters (gods know I've defended gay Allan Scott enough), but this goes completely against everything the character was built on. Now, if they made her gay and her conflict was about her own desires conflicting with her duty as empress (as Supergirl did), then okay that's good drama and a viable enough take on Maxima I suppose (though she did express some homophobic opinions back in the day, so Diana could call her out on being closed minded)....but without the need to establish a strong heir and strengthen the royal line (conflicting with her personal desires or not), it's not Maxima anymore.

They should've just kept young Maxima from Supergirl and re-introduced adult Maxima as her disapproving, cougar mother.



We seem to have a lot of similar tastes, I think.

I agree with this take on Maxima.

In fact I even vaguely remember there was a scene where she was like, befuddled by the concept of lesbianism, and it felt really true to her character. As well as, you know, a little bit uncomfortable, given her views on men. And so making the New 52 Maxima (or a comparable expy) into the "classic" Maxima's daughter seems like a fruitful idea as well.

Of course, that removes my favorite Maxima story from the equation, because there's no way that Clark would let homophobism slide. He'd lovingly and tolerantly bring Maxima around to a less bigoted view like you'd expect.

[Agent Z]

In my head, I have a whole six issue arc just about Maxima getting *married* and dealing with various kinds of political fallout from that. She's basically "Star Wars meets Game of Thrones" and I could probably spend years writing with that dynamic and never stop having fun throwing Clark into the middle of it. I mean, a space empire where the ruling family looks to incorporate powerful genetics into the royal line so they can protect their nation and things like gladiatorial combat is a regular part of entertainment? The Romans in outer space? How could you not love that concept?



Eh, almost every characterization from the early 80's would be considered an embarrassment today, depending on who you ask. Maxima was a queen searching for a worthy consort; it's commentary on feminism and commentary about feminism was likely perfectly valid (if thin) at the time, I'm guessing.

The new version is fine (I like her) but lacks bite. At least insofar as I'm familiar with her, I only saw her in Supergirl but I guess she's appeared a few other times since then.

How was it a commentary on feminism?

[Ra-El]

They made adult Maxima gay? Boo. Her whole thing is about securing the royal line.

Obviously I have no issue with gay characters (gods know I've defended gay Allan Scott enough), but this goes completely against everything the character was built on. Now, if they made her gay and her conflict was about her own desires conflicting with her duty as empress (as Supergirl did), then okay that's good drama and a viable enough take on Maxima I suppose (though she did express some homophobic opinions back in the day, so Diana could call her out on being closed minded)....but without the need to establish a strong heir and strengthen the royal line (conflicting with her personal desires or not), it's not Maxima anymore.

They should've just kept young Maxima from Supergirl and re-introduced adult Maxima as her disapproving, cougar mother.



We seem to have a lot of similar tastes, I think.

The new 52 Maxima, should be Maxima II, daughter of Maxima and an unknow father. The father would be Clark.

My idea for OG Maxima, and Almerac, is focusing on their desire for "improving" their genetic line, almost like a eugenicist. Initially her interest on Superman would not be as a psrtner, but as means for an end, like Ingrid Weiss from Tom Strong.

Maxima ultimate go would be securing power and a strong legacy, she would be less like Cersei and more lie Twyin Lannister.

[Vordan]

The new 52 Maxima, should be Maxima II, daughter of Maxima and an unknow father. The father would be Clark.
My idea for OG Maxima, and Almerac, is focusing on their desire for "improving" their genetic line, almost like a eugenicist. Initially her interest on Superman would not be as a psrtner, but as means for an end, like Ingrid Weiss from Tom Strong.

Maxima ultimate go would be securing power and a strong legacy, she would be less like Cersei and more lie Twyin Lannister.

The ****storm unleashed by that would be a sight to see lmao. Bruce Timm wanted to do something similar with Clark and Lashina, given the two had sex at the end of STAS while he was brainwashed.

[manwhohaseverything]

The ****storm unleashed by that would be a sight to see lmao. Bruce Timm wanted to do something similar with Clark and Lashina, given the two had sex at the end of STAS while he was brainwashed.

Big deal! Clark had sex with another woman. Oh! The horror! Why did thee bite on the forbidden fruit?its not like superman cheated on lois or anything. Even if that happened, If gordon can cheat on his wife. Why can't superman? I mean, gordon is also "by the book" kind of guy.Honestly, this kinda drama is just boring in general and people make a fuss about everything .

[Sacred Knight]

I prefer original Maxima. She wasn't most nuanced character in the world, but not everyone has to be. She was a snooty, privileged noble, thus not really supposed to be great to be around. But she was fun to read about, whether antagonist or trying to be a hero. Her struggles in that specific area in fact were what interested me most. One minute she'd be a member of the JL the next she'd get pissed about something and go rogue. And although I did not support killing her off, her original end was heroic. Plus it bugs me on principle when Superman-based characters are repackaged to add to someone else's gallery. She was aged down in the New 52 specifically to be a Supergirl character. That didn't sit well and still doesn't.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Big deal! Clark had sex with another woman. Oh! The horror! Why did thee bite on the forbidden fruit?its not like superman cheated on lois or anything. Even if that happened, If gordon can cheat on his wife. Why can't superman? I mean, gordon is also "by the book" kind of guy.Honestly, this kinda drama is just boring in general and people make a fuss about everything .

Clark and Lois were dating in Superman TAS, they just weren't married. But that's not the biggest problem, it's not a consensual relationship - Superman is brainwashed. Gordon cheating on his wife would be drama for the Bat fan base IMO, and that's not what Clark was doing with Lashina. Gordon was doing that on his own, Essen didn't take advantage of him when hew asn't in his right mind.

[manwhohaseverything]

Clark and Lois were dating in Superman TAS, they just weren't married. But that's not the biggest problem, it's not a consensual relationship - Superman is brainwashed. Gordon cheating on his wife would be drama for the Bat fan base IMO, and that's not what Clark was doing with Lashina. Gordon was doing that on his own, Essen didn't take advantage of him when hew asn't in his right mind.

No, clark and lois weren't dating. Lois never even knew superman was clark. They might have had moments where they kissed. But, that's just it. That's not dating.It might not be concensual and it can be depicted as bad.It doesn't have to be killing joke or dick Grayson situation where the victims aren't given anything after.But as said, ignoring anything and everything that's risky would only create blandness not complexity. Why can't superman be a victim? Heck! Clark being a victim would mean more. He's freaking superman and still was taken advantage of. Moreover, i was being a bit sarcastic. Clark is the last person i would consider to be "by the book". Gordon on the other hand entirely is. Clark generally doesn't care for rules especially, if doing the right thing is concerned.Superman is more of an idealist like captain America in the movies than some boyscout who clings to rule books.Finally, it all depends on the demographics you want to reach. I wouldn't want these kinds of stories for kids. But, that doesn’t mean superman can't have stories that aren't for children.
One of my favourite stories is berserk. The protagonist in it was sold of to get raped by his own adopted father in that book. Honestly, guts is very tragic character in general.It's kind of wierd that superman and guts are born with same archetype. But, they aren't the same at all.Guts is the struggler and nietzschean in philosophy. Superman ain't. Guts is more batman than batman could dream of.