Controversial Superman Opinions

[JackDaw]

The only character who could really work in that situation is Lex, by maybe saying in the old days it was Lex I, and in the current day he's dealing with Lex II. But you couldn't use that trope liberally with the rest ; it'd get ridiculous really fast. Not to mention it can't even be done with Lois. No one would accept two Lois's anymore than they'd accept to Supermen.

Yes. You'd need to get Superman to travel back in time in the couple of years after he left Smallville before going to Metropolis...his equivalent of a "gap year" before going to college. Have a load of early adventures, then come back into present.

Or some such cobblers. It would be a difficult nut to crack, but not impossible.

[Agniwolf]

I don't see why Superman needs to be the first. I'm not even that into the JSA, but I don't think they shouldn't exist just for the meager novelty that Supes came first. He's often acknowedged as the "best," and that is plenty for me.
I think it's got to be a meta thing. People always think meta=clever, when I think it's just scraping the bottom of the barrel. Superman was the first dc hero therefore he must be the first in universe hero. Because meta stuff in comic stories have never done anything for me. Deadpool has never made me laugh once, and I don't hate deadpool, I just don't see what's funny about him acknowledging that he's a fictional character. People think Grant Morrison showing up in Animal Man was genius, I think that's kinda lame tbh.
And you end up either not being able to have heroes with more experience than Supes, or you have to bend over backwards to make him kinda sorta not really first. Like he was the first to publically debut, but Batman, WW and 3 dozen others were active before he was. Just doesn't seem worth it from a practical perspective.



cuz most of his supporting cast would be dead of old age.

everybody is unique, but nobody is irreplaceable

[Kuwagaton]

The first of few is important. The first in a world where superheroics are commonplace is forgettable. I can't think of a single story that made me say, "this would be so much better if only he debuted before Jay Garrick."

He's already had a few "debut" stories, like the 2013 movie. Man of Steel is great as a story about one man deciding to embrace his altruism in the face of unrelenting doubt and fear, inward and outward. Basically the entire characters for Perry and Jonathan revolved around how rather wise and experienced men could see that Superman, by mere existence, changes everything the world knows to be true. Being the first in a realistic, bleak setting is a tremendous thing, but it's a well that dries quickly. That's not the kind of setting that sustains characters like Impulse or Plastic Man, or the super pets. Perry and Jonathan couldn't show up month after month wracked with fear of consequences.

The JSA are beloved (I seriously can't care less about them, sorry) and that's the one thing they hold onto, so I say let em. Let Superman continue along the sliding timescale and be recognized as the man of tomorrow.

But the idea of training under them... no. No offense to Morrison or other fans of the idea, but no way.

[FishyZombie]

everybody is unique, but nobody is irreplaceable

sure, but why sacrifice all that just for the "bragging right" of Superman being the "first?"

[Jokerz79]

My personal preference is the JSA WWII legacy heroes. I don't see how they hurt Superman given there would decades between and they'd be part of legends and myth and could even be inspired by Superman and the age of heroes he ushers to return out of the shadows. My only thing is Superman should be the first "meta-human" hero of the modern era.

As for Superboy I like the idea he uses his powers in secret as a teen but is Superboy when he travels to the future to have adventures with the Legion but debuts as Superman in the modern time.

[Agniwolf]

sure, but why sacrifice all that just for the novelty of Superman being the "first?"

dunno, maybe for the same reason there was a reboot in 1986 and 2011

or why people who liked a particular interation of superman whined (this also counts the writers themselves) till the newer one was merged *coff* erased *coff* with the other one just to satisfy their egos

if i were to give an idea to implement such thing, keep the lex two thing and then have 38 superman date lana and 86 superman date lois and have a son, switch perry with lombard then jimmy and cat as the best friend of each era

[FishyZombie]

dunno, maybe for the same reason there was a reboot in 1986 and 2011

or why people who liked a particular interation of superman whined (this also counts the writers themselves) till the newer one was merged *coff* erased *coff* with the other one just to satisfy their egos

Whether the JSA exist on the main earth or earth 2 is definitely a point of contention (that is the reason you were referring to in the bold, right?), that's played into both reboots and now rebirth. Personally, I don't care either way and I don't think Superman loses anything either way. Though, while I've never heard about such a thing before now, I'd hate the idea of Superman training under them if they existed on the main earth. At the same time don't care for seeing Kal-L lecture main, Superman, Or really anything they did with old man Kal-L, now that I think about it.

[Agniwolf]

Whether the JSA exist on the main earth or earth 2 is definitely a point of contention (that is the reason you were referring to in the bold, right?), that's played into both reboots and now rebirth. Personally, I don't care either way and I don't think Superman loses anything either way. Though, while I've never heard about such a thing before now, I'd hate the idea of Superman training under them if they existed on the main earth. At the same time don't care for seeing Kal-L lecture main, Superman, Or really anything they did with old man Kal-L, now that I think about it.

well that will depend on how much these fans are vocal about it

the bold does stand for the resistances in changes, for good or bad

[borntohula]

I love the N52 action comics run. I want it collected in a deluxe HC. It's so inspirational that I sometimes I read it before working out.

I love the burnt out Superman who gets his mojo back in N52 Futures end

I love superman's character arc throughout DKR DKSA and DKMR.

I think Allstar Superman is more spiritualy important than any religious text I've read.

[Superlad93]

There's a contradiction I see? Why would Superboy undermine the momentus arrival of Superman on an Earth with the JSA? Dr. Fate, the Spectre, Alan Scott? Those are Superman level events.

You'd imagine it would be a pretty direct contradiction for me, but I think Morrison, Waid, and the team created a pretty suitable replacement for the awe of Superman being the first hero in the world.

The replacement to the awe of the average Joe in the DCU is the awe of its first generation of heroes. That's probably the only suitable way to do it. It immediately elevates Superman's coming to myth. But if it's Superboy going to Superman and he's already known, the pomp and circumstance is replaced by a "I'm 21 now, so I should probably stop letting people call me Superboy. Superman, I guess."

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think it's a game of inches. If the DC universe actively goes out of it's way to take away things from Superman to create a more fair universe, doesn't it take away some of what makes Superman special? Fans wonder why Superman has lost status but wasn't there a concerted effort to redefine Superman from his number one status in lots of ways? Granted having said that, I don't see that with the Rebirth Superman. Potentially he's every Superman in some ways and since he's from another universe, maybe he was first there?

I think the impact of Superboy would be from small town legend to world wide stage in Metropolis. Maybe he's an urban legend at first and then he becomes a global phenomenon. Or maybe not, maybe his impact is immediate. Superboy has saved our world and now he does it as Superman! Otherwise does Captain Marvel debut first? Does Wonder Woman? Why would I be so impressed by Superman in a world where with Alan Scott. Even if he's retired as GL, Alan Scott, the seemingly ageless mogul, would be like Dr. Manhattan running a cable company. Why would the JSA ever stop being heroes? Did global threats stop happening after world war 2 until the modern age?

As for the legacy training, I like it sometimes. I think Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, and Wally West have the most successful post crisis family. At this point most members of the JSA would be 90 years old by now. If they trained most heroes of today, whose ages are between 18 and 35, doesn't that mean their mentors were 78 or 80 years old when they got their training? Are all of them aging slowly?

I think Earth 2 is a much better idea with it's own universe, it's own Superman, and the whole bit. Earth 1 can always be the current JLA which reboots from time to time. Earth 2 can be like a mirror universe 70 years ahead of the Earth 1 universe with all that means for their world. They should seem ahead of our universe in terms of how Superheroes change a world.

Granted I am a Superman first fan. I like the idea that all Superheroes are following his lead and he is at the forefront of leading humanity into the future. That's why I always give Superman so much credit as a fighter, scientist, chess player, stenographer, whatever. Other superheroes train to reach his level of just being Superman.

[DochaDocha]

I think Superman's been dumbed down in a lot of ways that whatever superlative things about him that are left are some of the only things that keep him relevant these days. You start treating him like just another hero and he might as well be just another hero.

[Superlad93]

Maybe he's an urban legend at first and then he becomes a global phenomenon.

Didn't I already suggest this specifically to you here? It was only like a page ago, and the very first thing I wrote to you about.

A compromise might be to take a play from Max Landis' playbook: basically have it so Superboy is a town secret and an urban legend in the rest of Kansas. That still makes the transition to the city and the world very significant. It's the idea of feeling like you've got the world in your pocket up till 20 and then the world seems a whole lot bigger than your home town.

Why would the JSA ever stop being heroes? Did global threats stop happening after world war 2 until the modern age?

Because some got too old probably if they started in the 40s. Or maybe they disband in a Minute Men/New Frontier/Smallville sort of way. Couldn't really tell you. I imagine they reform later though.


Anyways, to put a cap on this, I simply think Superboy being known world wide or even beyond the confines of Kansas under cuts Superman appearing because it's simply him going like "hey, call me Superman now," and I'm not into that as my first choice. I'm fine with the JSA coming first so long as your frame it correctly in the Superman book (you're welcome to frame it in another manner in their book). That's the long and sort of it.

[DJ1107]

Controversial Opinion? I honestly like Action Comics Rebirth. I see some folks really rag on this & I honestly don't know why. It's really the best place to get traditional Superman Action compared to the Main book following Clark & his family (which is great), I though it handled the loose ends of the New 52 stuff relatively well before Reborn & I like that Jurgen's hasn't thrown Lex under the bus & revert him to his villainous ways (yet anyway). Also it did a nice Eff you to Marvel's Civil War II & that was just savage.

[stephtanner]

Controversial Opinion? I honestly like Action Comics Rebirth. I see some folks really rag on this & I honestly don't know why. It's really the best place to get traditional Superman Action compared to the Main book following Clark & his family (which is great), I though it handled the loose ends of the New 52 stuff relatively well before Reborn & I like that Jurgen's hasn't thrown Lex under the bus & revert him to his villainous ways (yet anyway). Also it did a nice Eff you to Marvel's Civil War II & that was just savage.

I'm enjoying Action, too. The fake Clark mystery was the most enjoyable for me, and the Oz mystery is intriguing me more and more. The current Revenge Squad arc has been fun, too. I hope Jurgens ends it with a bang in the last issue of that arc. If he does, I'd rate his run as only a slight notch below Tomasi and Gleason's on Superman.