Controversial Superman Opinions

[Kuwagaton]

The reboot was an attempt at consistency. The reader was put in a position of only needing the comics they'd be holding in their hands from that point forward to matter in regards to what there is to know about the world of Superman. But they gave him three (compared to our two) titles a month and put a serious point man to the task. Byrne drew and wrote two titles a month, and when Wolfman stopped writing the third book, Byrne simply started writing that, too. Later they brought in Ordway, Immonen, and Jurgens as writing artists, and others who did a minimum of 60 issues.

Launching with two titles, the 2011 reboot was different. By two years, everyone who launched it was gone, and Lobdell had already lost Rocafort (thankfully Pak and Kuder were around the corner). Batman Superman had a great first arc as well, I think. But whatever showed up in the DC offices to steer the ship hadn't been present from 2000- to maybe Rebirth.

Even then, the second hard reboot wasn't as rough as a soft reboot. Trying to have a lot on the table, keeping the death of Superman while showing Boogie Nights Krypton as the real version (or Birthright, basically a DC equivalent of an Ultimate Krypton) was just rough. Luthor went to school with both Perry and Clark? Yikes. That was specifically the "make it up as you go and hope you avoid landmines " stuff Post Crisis aimed to avoid by razing the forest. I don't mean to insult anyone involved but that didn't seem like a great gameplan. And they struggled just to have a real origin for the entire span of 2000-2009. Huge obstacles at what is the very foundation of the character.

[stephens2177]

This literally made me LOL. The only problem is that Flash does so much more than just run fast these days, and having him be unequivocally faster than Superman is the reason why his power set has expanded so much and made him so much more versatile than just running fast; it has really set him apart from Superman, which is a GOOD thing for Flash.

This is why when ppl talk like flash "needs" to be the fastest guy I lol,because he isn't just a fast guy anymore,he does a million more things,and those things make him even more of a top tier guy.if you add up every speedsters abilities that has ever been on the page that has shown to have any access to the speedforce you could literally destroy the entire DCU hero roster many times over.so this whole "it's his 1 thing BS" is a cop out and bull.superman should be as fast as any speedster,atleast when flying,maybe sometimes even pass them.

[daBronzeBomma]

There is no reason Clark and his fellow living Kryptonians (Kara, Krypto) shouldn't get their Pre-COIE power/skill levels back, provided you boost his enemies back to their Pre-COIE power/skill levels as well (Luthor/Brainiac/Darkseid/Zod/Bizarro).

[Jim Kelly]

The "Fastest Man Alive" tag line for the Flash is good PR. I don't need for it to be true and I wouldn't want it taken away from him just because it might not be completely accurate. The "Man of Steel" isn't literally made of steel.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I even like the idea that the Flash is definitely faster than Superman, that fits the integrity of the character, but I think by that same devotion to character integrity, Superman can outrun/ out speed the Flash, maybe not daily, but game on the line, absolutely. Superman makes that shot, hits that spot, solves that riddle. No one should be able to outrun the Flash, that makes him the Flash, but what makes Superman Superman is the idea that he can do the impossible.

[Ascended]

RE: Flash v Superman: Fandom of Ridiculousness.



I got no issue with Clark not being able to out-race someone who mainlines the Speed Force. By all means, let Barry and Wally in his prime (Waid-Morrison era stuff) win the race. They're Omega level threats just like Clark, and if Clark's "only" a close second place, he's got an infinite amount of resources they dont, even with their kinetic tricks.

I figure Barry's a tiny bit faster.

But Clark will still get to the crisis first. Because he does the impossible, and what's more impossible than out-racing someone who is faster than you?

[Uncanny Mutie]

This is why when ppl talk like flash "needs" to be the fastest guy I lol,because he isn't just a fast guy anymore,he does a million more things,and those things make him even more of a top tier guy.if you add up every speedsters abilities that has ever been on the page that has shown to have any access to the speedforce you could literally destroy the entire DCU hero roster many times over.so this whole "it's his 1 thing BS" is a cop out and bull.superman should be as fast as any speedster,atleast when flying,maybe sometimes even pass them.

But the reason he can do a lot of that other stuff now is BECAUSE he is the undisputed fastest guy now. Make him not the fastest and it DOES take away a great deal of his power set and take him back to being "just a guy who runs really fast."

[Sacred Knight]

In my head its pretty simple: If you have access to the Speed Force, you're faster than anyone else, only exceptions being others who have access to the Speed Force and are better at it than you. And I'm thinking it will be established sooner than later that Barry is the Speed Force F'ing Master in that regard.

So Superman can't beat any speedster with access to the SF. Outside of a potential situation where we're talking about someone so new and foreign to the concept that they're tripping over themselves, figuratively and/or literally. If they want to say his speed is massively impressive in its own right considering he doesn't access the SF, that's more than fine by me, though.

[Uncanny Mutie]

In my head its pretty simple: If you have access to the Speed Force, you're faster than anyone else, only exceptions being others who have access to the Speed Force and are better at it than you. And I'm thinking it will be established sooner than later that Barry is the Speed Force F'ing Master in that regard.

So Superman can't beat any speedster with access to the SF. Outside of a potential situation where we're talking about someone so new and foreign to the concept that they're tripping over themselves, figuratively and/or literally. If they want to say his speed is massively impressive in its own right considering he doesn't access the SF, that's more than fine by me, though.

I agree with this. Heck, they don't call it "the Speed Force" for nothing.

[daBronzeBomma]

In my head its pretty simple: If you have access to the Speed Force, you're faster than anyone else, only exceptions being others who have access to the Speed Force and are better at it than you. And I'm thinking it will be established sooner than later that Barry is the Speed Force F'ing Master in that regard.

So Superman can't beat any speedster with access to the SF. Outside of a potential situation where we're talking about someone so new and foreign to the concept that they're tripping over themselves, figuratively and/or literally. If they want to say his speed is massively impressive in its own right considering he doesn't access the SF, that's more than fine by me, though.

Except now the Flash is actually considered way more OP than Superman, and the only reason that Flash stories against non-speedster/ non-cosmic types last more than 3 panels is sheer plot - induced stupidity on the hero 's part. Flash can blitz anyone, has the Infinite Mass Punch, and can actively time travel under his own power. He is effectively much more powerful than Superman currently is.

[Ascended]

Flash has been more powerful than Clark for ages. Well, Wally was. I dont think Barry's proven it yet.

But the moment Wally destroyed the Anti-Monitor during the COIE so quickly no one, not even earth-2 Kal-L, saw it? Flash stepped over the line into "plot device." And that must've been close to twenty years ago by now.

[Johnny Thunders!]

That’s my point, Superman worked with speed equally as he did any other power. I know why The Flash seems so dominant but that’s a revision I don’t care for, why can’t Superman be Superman.

[daBronzeBomma]

Flash has been more powerful than Clark for ages. Well, Wally was. I dont think Barry's proven it yet.

But the moment Wally destroyed the Anti-Monitor during the COIE so quickly no one, not even earth-2 Kal-L, saw it? Flash stepped over the line into "plot device." And that must've been close to twenty years ago by now.

Yeah, I think that feat falls into "Spider -Man vs Firelord" territory (see Rumbles), i.e. way too much of an outlier to actually count.

Doesn't matter. Batman can still stab Wally in the foot like he did to Reverse Flash.

[stephens2177]

But the reason he can do a lot of that other stuff now is BECAUSE he is the undisputed fastest guy now. Make him not the fastest and it DOES take away a great deal of his power set and take him back to being "just a guy who runs really fast."

Not being the fastest doesn't take away your powerset,just your power ranking.

[stephens2177]

In my head its pretty simple: If you have access to the Speed Force, you're faster than anyone else, only exceptions being others who have access to the Speed Force and are better at it than you. And I'm thinking it will be established sooner than later that Barry is the Speed Force F'ing Master in that regard.

So Superman can't beat any speedster with access to the SF. Outside of a potential situation where we're talking about someone so new and foreign to the concept that they're tripping over themselves, figuratively and/or literally. If they want to say his speed is massively impressive in its own right considering he doesn't access the SF, that's more than fine by me, though.

The speedforce is a power source,just like the green lantern battery is,just like the yellow sun is for Superman,it's not the ultimate power force in the universe of all others.

It also depends on what powers the speedforce grants you,it could be speed,or kinetics,or any number of powers,just lookbat how many different abilities ppl have been granted from it,it's not a 1 power for all source.

Wally has been as OP as silver age Superman was for a very long time now,Barry is still skimming the speedforce,so this whole notion that Superman has so much more going for him is ludicrous,when it's not true.

Superman has a infinite power source also,it should mean he can push himself as far as he wants,just like wally,but with the speedforce feeding him.