Controversial Superman Opinions

[Kuwagaton]

It always sounds like the CW material goes well even if some people have issues with the use of Superman. But I'm happy if people are paying attention. Personally though, I find CW unbearably cheesy and I'd be embarrassed if they adapted a story I thought was worth recommending. At that rate the worst quibble of BvS is better than most of what I've seen on Smallville or the current crop.

I see what you're talking about. There is an uncanny valley aspect to Frank's faces at times.

As for me, I'm really not a big fan of All-Star Superman. Part of the issue is Frank Quitely's artwork. I'm not a fan of his Superman that resembles a somewhat pudgy Elvis. And I'm just not a big fan of his style in general.

For what it's worth, I've also never been a fan of John Romita Jr. The first John Romita is one of the best, though.

When JRJR is on he's on... but Action looks "not on" to say the least. Frank Q and G Frank, I have the same impression of Quitely but I think some of it is due to the coloring. Gary Frank's art always looks the same and it's pretty nice, but all the faces are the same and he does this one particular expression with everyone that just ugly. But he'd be one of my favorites if it wasn't for the delays.

[Ascended]

This upcoming CW joint is going to do more to harm Superman's overall popularity than anything. It's almost a signaling of defeat on WB's side.

I think you give the CW too much credit. Their reach isn't that long, and at this point a crappy Superman show is just a drop in the bucket. And if this show somehow nets Superman some new, younger fans, that's not a bad thing either. New fans are always welcome.

I don't watch the shows but I did see a couple clips of the CW guy, Heochin or whatever, next to Routh in his Kingdom Come suit. And....gods, Hoechin just looks so out of place, like a kid in a Halloween costume. Routh couldn't deliver the Superman we deserved (not his fault) but he looks like the real deal compared to Mr CW.

Why couldnt we get a show with Routh as that Superman? I still don't have much faith in Routh to get it right and I don't have any faith in CW at all, but at least the actor would look the part.

I really hate bashing on the CW guy like this. He's probably a good dude. But from what I've seen he was poorly cast.

[Yoda]

Crapping on Hoechlin or the CW are not controversial opinions here at all. There's pages and pages of it over in the two threads. Truly controversial opinions on that are:

1. Hoechlin was a better Superman than Routh in Crisis and has been over the course of his CW appearances.

2. Routh's Superman was boring and one note and epitomized the stereotype of Superman as a boring character that gives speeches on hope and does literally nothing else except die.

[fan_of_the_messiah]

The CW might be bad for Superman (a matter of opinion really) but I don't think it will ever compare to the levels of what WB have actually done to the character since Superman Returns. It's like with each installment the IP dies just a little. They've stopped short to openly admitting that they have no clue what to do with the big guy, which is a crying shame. At this stage they are afraid of even trying to put out a good product, let alone any product headlining Superman. I want better for the character but I've now accepted that it will never happen whatever format they put out.

I think it's maybe because we live in an age of cynicism, perhaps? I may be wrong, but it seems to me that studio execs believe audiences want superheroes that are dark, conflicted, fallible and possibly even coming from a jaded sentiment. That may be true to some extent for other characters such as Batman, presumably due to Chris Nolan's Batman trilogy which arguably led to a resurgence in the character as well as the Joker and opened the door to the Marvel films, which have been big money makers for these studios, but this is not Superman.

Superman, to me, from a young age represented altruism in its purest form. His core belief: The preservation of all life, even if the cost is his own life. As an Indian, forgive me for saying, but I didn't see him as just an American hero but a hero for all humanity. A force to reconcile and unite us all; to show us that despite our differences in race, faith, sexuality, etc we are all one people living in one world. He views the world in a very unique way which very few of us have had the opportunity to do, i.e. from space, where he doesn't see barriers or borders. To me he is the personification of kindness, compassion and humility. I believe his altruism, comes from three places (1) his mission on Earth given to him by his biological father, (2) the way he was raised by his adopted father, Jonathan Kent and (3 arguably the most important reason of all), because he knows he is the last of his kind, the 'last son of Krypton', the last of a failed society who should have flourished if only they could have learned to work together and get past their differences. Because of point (3) I believe that he does have an internalised sense of loneliness and sadness, but this fuels him to keep smiling, be cheerful and optimistic and to fight for truth, justice and freedom for all in the 'hope' that we avoid the same fate as Krypton.

This isn't to say that the stories can not be dark, I think. In fact characters such as General Zod, Brainiac, Darkseid and particularly Lex Luthor do take humanity to very dark places, but Superman is and always should be the bright shining beacon that promotes human goodness and compassion to triumph over our more insidious side! The story of Superman, I believe, really is an examination of ourselves and the horrible things we do to each other when we are placed in such circumstances.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

This upcoming CW joint is going to do more to harm Superman's overall popularity than anything. It's almost a signaling of defeat on WB's side.

The CW might be bad for Superman (a matter of opinion really) but I don't think it will ever compare to the levels of what WB have actually done to the character since Superman Returns. It's like with each installment the IP dies just a little. They've stopped short to openly admitting that they have no clue what to do with the big guy, which is a crying shame. At this stage they are afraid of even trying to put out a good product, let alone any product headlining Superman. I want better for the character but I've now accepted that it will never happen whatever format they put out.

Every single live action adaption of Superman are generally considered to fit into the "guilty pleasure" category.
-The Donner Superman
-The Snyder Superman
-Lois and Clark
-Smallville
-Superman Returns

I'm sorry but nothing truly great up there. And I consider the Snyder movies to be just as much, if not more so corny as the rest of them. Only unintentionally so. I mean there is literally a scene where Clark Kent the reporter gets in an argument with Bruce Wayne about who's better, Batman or Superman. Only to be interupted by Eisenburg's hammy Lex.
This new thing will probably just be on par for the course.

[rpmaluki]

Superman on the CW is not great but it can't possibly be the worst of the worst compared to what's come before it on tv as well as film, at least not before we've seen the finished product of a Superman-led show.

[Flash Gordon]

I don’t see how. What’s the audience for these CW shows, 2 million at the max? Compare that with hundreds of millions who witness the implosion of the DC Film Franchise on the big screen or played Injustice where he melts Shazam’s brain for saying they shouldn’t slaughter cities. At the worst the CW show will just be corny, but the average person already thinks Supes is corny.

That said WB has given up on him for the moment on the big screen, at least for the moment. There was a whole article about how they have no clue what to do with him.

The problem with the CW isn't that it's cheesy, I'd welcome some real honest to goodness camp tbh- it's just bad tv.

If the budget isn't there, lean into it! Camp up Superman and give him weird practical effect driven creatures to do battle with! Have fun with it! It isn't the budget, it's just the quality of the CW.

[fan_of_the_messiah]

Hello all, slightly off topic but are there many Lex Luthor fans on here? Forgive me, but he is my absolute favourite character from the Superman story and of all time. I am ashamed to say that I am a bigger fan of Lex Luthor than I am of Superman, purely from a character study. A man from "American aristocracy", born into a wealthy family akin to the American Rockefeller family, but whose real power is not his wealth but his almost supernaturally gifted intellect for academic study. A man who falsely believes himself to be the rightful leader of not just America but of the entire world.

From when I was a school student, studying history and politics, I started to think about the differences in state involvement between socialist and capitalist political thinking. The extreme of socialism is communism and the extreme of capitalism is considered to be fascism.....or is it? Is it neo-liberalism? The idea of "least government involvement the better". Since the end of the cold war, it seems that communism has been dead and buried, leading to the former soviet block to adopt free market thinking principles including countries such as China. In such a global market economy, where businesses flourish and corporations are now able to move beyond the borders of their home nations, purchase other corporations in conglomerates and holdings, would it really be unfathomable to enter a worldwide political system where corporations hold greater sway over the population of a nation than the governments of the nations themselves? This is what I have read to be the emergence of the corporatocracy ideology. In todays day, workers "belonging" to corporations are able to move from nation to nation over the behest of their corporate employer. This I believe is the crux of how Lex Luthor in a domino effect is able to capture the world; through corporatocracy from his multi-national businesses and fundamentally appealing to national and individual greed.

[Flash Gordon]

I think you give the CW too much credit. Their reach isn't that long, and at this point a crappy Superman show is just a drop in the bucket. And if this show somehow nets Superman some new, younger fans, that's not a bad thing either. New fans are always welcome.

I don't watch the shows but I did see a couple clips of the CW guy, Heochin or whatever, next to Routh in his Kingdom Come suit. And....gods, Hoechin just looks so out of place, like a kid in a Halloween costume. Routh couldn't deliver the Superman we deserved (not his fault) but he looks like the real deal compared to Mr CW.

Why couldnt we get a show with Routh as that Superman? I still don't have much faith in Routh to get it right and I don't have any faith in CW at all, but at least the actor would look the part.

I really hate bashing on the CW guy like this. He's probably a good dude. But from what I've seen he was poorly cast.

The CW doesn't have much of an outreach, you're right. Smallville, back in it's WB days, had a larger audience. I'm prolly being too upset about it- when I don't really care either way. I just love Superman and want the best for the Big Guy. This is not that.

WB dumping Superman onto the CW is not a good sign. Not when there are plenty of other avenues for the character. Matt Reeves' THE BATMAN is likely going to be great stuff, James Wan's AQUAMAN was rad. Jenkins' WONDER WOMAN '84 looks fantastic. Hell, Superboy on TITANS was top notch and that show rocks! Superman gets a Hallmark Channel movie. Not a Christmas one either!

I think for Hoechlin it is a mixture of not having much to work with, and just not fitting the part. I don't care for Routh much either, but from the clips I saw he is a lot better.

[Flash Gordon]

Hello all, slightly off topic but are there many Lex Luthor fans on here? Forgive me, but he is my absolute favourite character from the Superman story and of all time. I am ashamed to say that I am a bigger fan of Lex Luthor than I am of Superman, purely from a character study. A man from "American aristocracy", born into a wealthy family akin to the American Rockefeller family, but whose real power is not his wealth but his almost supernaturally gifted intellect for academic study. A man who falsely believes himself to be the rightful leader of not just America but of the entire world.

From when I was a school student, studying history and politics, I started to think about the differences in state involvement between socialist and capitalist political thinking. The extreme of socialism is communism and the extreme of capitalism is considered to be fascism.....or is it? Is it neo-liberalism? The idea of "least government involvement the better". Since the end of the cold war, it seems that communism has been dead and buried, leading to the former soviet block to adopt free market thinking principles including countries such as China. In such a global market economy, where businesses flourish and corporations are now able to move beyond the borders of their home nations, purchase other corporations in conglomerates and holdings, would it really be unfathomable to enter a worldwide political system where corporations hold greater sway over the population of a nation than the governments of the nations themselves? This is what I have read to be the emergence of the corporatocracy ideology. In todays day, workers "belonging" to corporations are able to move from nation to nation over the behest of their corporate employer. This I believe is the crux of how Lex Luthor in a domino effect is able to capture the world; through corporatocracy from his multi-national businesses and fundamentally appealing to national and individual greed.

I love this reading of Lex Luthor, too. He is the antithesis of everything Superman stands for.

[Ascended]

The CW doesn't have much of an outreach, you're right. Smallville, back in it's WB days, had a larger audience. I'm prolly being too upset about it- when I don't really care either way. I just love Superman and want the best for the Big Guy. This is not that.

WB dumping Superman onto the CW is not a good sign. Not when there are plenty of other avenues for the character. Matt Reeves' THE BATMAN is likely going to be great stuff, James Wan's AQUAMAN was rad. Jenkins' WONDER WOMAN '84 looks fantastic. Hell, Superboy on TITANS was top notch and that show rocks! Superman gets a Hallmark Channel movie. Not a Christmas one either!

I think for Hoechlin it is a mixture of not having much to work with, and just not fitting the part. I don't care for Routh much either, but from the clips I saw he is a lot better.

No, this is not what is best for the Big Guy. But it's not the worst either, and ultimately it's not the problem, but a symptom of the real issue which is WB's inability to do anything right with Clark.

I don't know why they don't just adapt a popular story from the comics. Granted, they'd probably pick the wrong story and do something trite and self-defeating like Action 775 instead of something good like All-Star, but if WB can't figure the character out, there's plenty of very popular stories that do.

Hell, a small movie budget and an adaptation of a Fleischer cartoon (Mechanical Monsters perhaps?) could be extremely successful, stupid easy to do, and fast to produce.

[Flash Gordon]

No, this is not what is best for the Big Guy. But it's not the worst either, and ultimately it's not the problem, but a symptom of the real issue which is WB's inability to do anything right with Clark.

I don't know why they don't just adapt a popular story from the comics. Granted, they'd probably pick the wrong story and do something trite and self-defeating like Action 775 instead of something good like All-Star, but if WB can't figure the character out, there's plenty of very popular stories that do.

Hell, a small movie budget and an adaptation of a Fleischer cartoon (Mechanical Monsters perhaps?) could be extremely successful, stupid easy to do, and fast to produce.

A remake of Superman VS the Mole Men would be incredible and really timely. Easy to do. Get Del Toro or somebody to have a hand in it, if not outright direct it.

[Sacred Knight]

"Family man Superman" is not the saving grace for the character many made it out to be when Rebirth first got rolling. If anything its going to hurt the character's popularity even more than it already has been over the past 30 years. In fact it might just be the worst offender, even over the infamous "simple farmboy" or "DKR government stooge" haracterizations.

[SiegePerilous02]

"Family man Superman" is not the saving grace for the character many made it out to be when Rebirth first got rolling. If anything its going to hurt the character's popularity even more than it already has been over the past 30 years. In fact it might just be the worst offender, even over the infamous "simple farmboy" or "DKR government stooge" haracterizations.

I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as those, but I agree with you in general that it is underwhelming and not helping to make him relevant to potential younger fans.

[Agent Z]

I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as those, but I agree with you in general that it is underwhelming and not helping to make him relevant to potential younger fans.

Younger fans aren't so shallow that they might hate him simply for being a family man.