Controversial Superman Opinions

[fan_of_the_messiah]

I love this reading of Lex Luthor, too. He is the antithesis of everything Superman stands for.

Thank you Flash Gordon, I agree he is the antithesis of everything Superman stands for. But if Superman's core belief is that all life in the world is precious and should be protected and saved (this makes sense since he is a being who lost his entire civilisation) then surely Lex's core belief would be that “not all life is worth the same and some lives have greater value than others”. To me this type of thinking has plagued human civilisation for hundreds if not thousands of years. The holocaust, imperialism, slavery. These are examples of how this type of thinking has menaced our societies worldwide, but what's astonishing to me having read literature on these historical events is that nations of people following their leaders into committing these heinous acts, do so because they think their leaders are right and justifiable and also because by doing so they can provide a better standard of living for themselves and their families. I don't think most people commit evil acts for the sake of being evil; I think they do so because they believe they are right, but it just so happens that what they are doing is perceived as being evil to others. Lex Luthor, is a leader in the same vein, but he takes this idea of human beings having different values several steps further and pits groups of human beings against each other. Typically, people have been persecuted due to ethnicity, faith, gender, sexual orientation etc; but imagine a character that promotes the idea that human beings should be valued on their abilities and what they can contribute to our overpopulated and polluted world. The idea that some human beings, who have talents, should be allowed to flourish whilst others are merely a burden to society and should treated like meat in an abattoir. For example, viewing unskilled/low skilled citizens who are chronically ill and need support for health care as being seen as nothing but a burden to tax payers and being sent to concentration camps, or burning down entire prisons (with convicts locked inside) because they too are a burden for the tax payer and a perfect society has no use for criminals.

This goes to the heart of Superman’s lifelong battle with Lex Luthor: a battle for leadership of the human race, for the very soul of humanity. Poor leadership can break a nation or an entire civilisation and this is what I have taken as having the most profound meaning to me from the Superman stories. The trouble with poor leaders is that they seldom realise the damage that they are doing.

[Vordan]

The CW doesn't have much of an outreach, you're right. Smallville, back in it's WB days, had a larger audience. I'm prolly being too upset about it- when I don't really care either way. I just love Superman and want the best for the Big Guy. This is not that.

WB dumping Superman onto the CW is not a good sign. Not when there are plenty of other avenues for the character. Matt Reeves' THE BATMAN is likely going to be great stuff, James Wan's AQUAMAN was rad. Jenkins' WONDER WOMAN '84 looks fantastic. Hell, Superboy on TITANS was top notch and that show rocks! Superman gets a Hallmark Channel movie. Not a Christmas one either!

I think for Hoechlin it is a mixture of not having much to work with, and just not fitting the part. I don't care for Routh much either, but from the clips I saw he is a lot better.

Well the rumors say Abrams will be rebooting him. YMMV on whether that’s a good or bad thing lol.

[phantom1592]

This upcoming CW joint is going to do more to harm Superman's overall popularity than anything. It's almost a signaling of defeat on WB's side.

I doubt it. Even if the quality is 'bad'... CW did revitalize Supergirl, Black Lightning, and made Flash and Green Arrow household names. Once of the biggest complaints I heard 'normal people' say about Justice League was that that wasn't the right Flash. It should have been the TV flash...

[Flash Gordon]

I doubt it. Even if the quality is 'bad'... CW did revitalize Supergirl, Black Lightning, and made Flash and Green Arrow household names. Once of the biggest complaints I heard 'normal people' say about Justice League was that that wasn't the right Flash. It should have been the TV flash...

I don't think it actually did that for any of those characters.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I don't think it actually did that for any of those characters.

I mean, believe what you want. But when crisis happened, Warner Brothers went out of their way to request for Ezra Miller to cameo in a CW crossover, in order to drum up hype for the Flashpoint movie, so. Well, what does that tell you?

[SiegePerilous02]

Younger fans aren't so shallow that they might hate him simply for being a family man.

I never said they would "hate" him, or even dislike him, but Norman Rockwellian family stories like we've gotten in Rebirth are hardly the most exciting things you could do with the character when you want him to be fresh, exciting and relevant to get newer readers/fans (in all mediums) by his own merits.

And fans can dislike the status quo, or just don't feel it quite works for this character across all mediums, without being "shallow."

[stargazer01]

and I thought I was depressed... I still have a lot of faith in the character. Some day someone will do him real justice again on film, imo.


by the way, someone who saw the Birds of Prey movie said the DC films intro is back. that made me happy.

[Vordan]

I don't think it actually did that for any of those characters.

For Flash and to a lesser degree Green Arrow it definitely did. Flash sales skyrocketed with the TV show and Flash has become a much more popular character because of it. Reverse Flash has also seen a jump in popularity.

[manwhohaseverything]

I never said they would "hate" him, or even dislike him, but Norman Rockwellian family stories like we've gotten in Rebirth are hardly the most exciting things you could do with the character when you want him to be fresh, exciting and relevant to get newer readers/fans (in all mediums) by his own merits.

And fans can dislike the status quo, or just don't feel it quite works for this character across all mediums, without being "shallow."

You do realise that normal rockwellian family stories had wayyyy more enjoyable scifi, mystery and adventure mixed in than even the current bendis run which is just drama. As said, kids could actually get into superman for once. That wasn't the case.
And coming to rebirth and cw show.They are two different things. It should be clear by now.

[Agent Z]

I never said they would "hate" him, or even dislike him, but Norman Rockwellian family stories like we've gotten in Rebirth are hardly the most exciting things you could do with the character when you want him to be fresh, exciting and relevant to get newer readers/fans (in all mediums) by his own merits.

And fans can dislike the status quo, or just don't feel it quite works for this character across all mediums, without being "shallow."

Who said the people who liked Superman as a family man want Norman Rockwellian stories? I wouldn't even call Rebirth that.

And considering how often family man Clark is criticized for not being a young playboy who hops from one woman to another in between adventures (I'm not saying you are doing this), I would say that the backlash towards the current status quo is in huge part for reasons more than a little bit shallow. Not all but a huge part.

[rpmaluki]

My favourite depiction of a family dynamic is Lost in Space but without the powers, now add them and that would be Super, just like the Incredibles. It's not impossible to write good family stories, it just needs to be done instead of shying away from them because it's much easier to tell stories about a younger Clark in his bachelor days.

[TheSuperMule]

Frank Miller is a good Superman writer. I feel a lot of fans tend to overreact how damaging DKR actually was. Also Year One was good and so was DKR III (Haven't read Golden Child yet).

The Symbol of Hope characterization is boring and is holding Superman back. Creatively it's something that limits the writers in a big way. Superman by default is a symbol of hope (aren't all super-heroes to some degree?). But it always comes off to me as forced. And it doesn't let the stories go in any direction.

I liked that all Kryptonians had powers back in Krypton. It would make them that much more arrogant to think that they can survive a cataclysmic event. Maybe not all abilities that Clark has under a yellow sun but everyone had at least the speed, strength, invulnerability.

Unchained is one of my favorite Superman stories. That battle with Wraith is just crazy, popcorn, blockbuster stuff and I loved every single second of it!

[rpmaluki]

Superman being viewed as a symbol of hope doesn't mean his stories are automatically limited to just that. There's a wide spectrum of themes that some writers simply are too inept or unwilling to tackle. Clark is many things just because he inspires others to be hopeful doesn't mean he doesn't experience bouts sadness, loneliness, vexation, brashness etc. Why not show Clark also struggling within because people have placed him on too high a pedestal? Writers get bogged down with too much plot focused storytelling while neglecting his characterisation. If they did both, it wouldn't matter if he was a bachelor or a family man, we'd see him deal with whatever challenge gets thrown his way and rise to the occasion. Clark should not be depicted as the perfect saviour, but someone with a never say die spirit that pushes on despite facing external and perhaps even internal limitations.

Bruce as the ever (not criticised/belittled) Dark Knight, why aren't his stories "limited" to that one-note characterisation yet people can't see past the "hope" angle for Superman?

[TheSuperMule]

Superman being viewed as a symbol of hope doesn't mean his stories are automatically limited to just that. There's a wide spectrum of themes that some writers simply are too inept or unwilling to tackle. Clark is many things just because he inspires others to be hopeful doesn't mean he doesn't experience bouts sadness, loneliness, vexation, brashness etc. Why not show Clark also struggling within because people have placed him on too high a pedestal? Writers get bogged down with too much plot focused storytelling while neglecting his characterisation. If they did both, it wouldn't matter if he was a bachelor or a family man, we'd see him deal with whatever challenge gets thrown his way and rise to the occasion. Clark should not be depicted as the perfect saviour, but someone with a never say die spirit that pushes on despite facing external and perhaps even internal limitations.

Bruce as the ever (not criticised/belittled) Dark Knight, why aren't his stories "limited" to that one-note characterisation yet people can't see past the "hope" angle for Superman?

My thoughts exactly.

[manwhohaseverything]

All might was the symbol of peace, the number one hero. It was fantastic. It still is. Superman being that isn't a limitation,at all.