Controversial Superman Opinions

[fan_of_the_messiah]

Superman being viewed as a symbol of hope doesn't mean his stories are automatically limited to just that. There's a wide spectrum of themes that some writers simply are too inept or unwilling to tackle. Clark is many things just because he inspires others to be hopeful doesn't mean he doesn't experience bouts sadness, loneliness, vexation, brashness etc. Why not show Clark also struggling within because people have placed him on too high a pedestal? Writers get bogged down with too much plot focused storytelling while neglecting his characterisation. If they did both, it wouldn't matter if he was a bachelor or a family man, we'd see him deal with whatever challenge gets thrown his way and rise to the occasion. Clark should not be depicted as the perfect saviour, but someone with a never say die spirit that pushes on despite facing external and perhaps even internal limitations.

Bruce as the ever (not criticised/belittled) Dark Knight, why aren't his stories "limited" to that one-note characterisation yet people can't see past the "hope" angle for Superman?

I concur. I think a lot of non-Superman fans do not understand the nature of that sense of "Hope". In my opinion, it is the hope that we will move past our differences and work as a collective civilisation, superseding what Krypton achieved and what led to their doom and we will instead work towards a brighter future for us all. Where Kryptonian society failed, humanity will overcome its own obstacles and barriers to become a truly prosperous civilisation.

I do enjoy reading stories and seeing live action shows of Superman where he experiences moments of doubt, sadness and loneliness, but that's where the villains take advantage of vulnerable people in Superman's absence. For example in many iterations Superman was friends with Lex Luthor at the beginning. Lex is so incredibly clever that he is able to pull the wool over Superman's eyes and deceive Superman into believing that he is a benign humanitarian also, and despite being explicitly told by Jor-El that his mission on Earth would be a lifelong mission to lead by example and not to directly get involved in human society's politics and take sides with nations, Superman endorses Lex Luthor for the presidency of the US to only later realise what a big mistake he made. In such stories, Superman endorses Lex for the presidency, because he feels the burden of being the "messiah" and what he truly wants is to be "human", to have what his adopted parents had, to marry, settle down and be a farmer on the kent farm and raise children. In his almost desperate bid to relieve himself of the duty of being humanity's saviour he foolishly "passed on" this responsibility to Lex Luthor as US president only to later discover Lex's evil intentions for the world.

[TheSuperMule]

All might was the symbol of peace, the number one hero. It was fantastic. It still is. Superman being that isn't a limitation,at all.

That character was completely ruined for me. There's no way the symbol of peace passes on his powers to a quirkless kid and then doesn't tell him all the implications of what he's getting into with those powers. Also the way he put Midorya on the spot during the festival/tournament thing was a pretty dick thing to do to a kid who had powers for only a few months. The fact that he knew that Midorya adored him and still pushed him that way felt really weird to me.

[manwhohaseverything]

That character was completely ruined for me. There's no way the symbol of peace passes on his powers to a quirkless kid and then doesn't tell him all the implications of what he's getting into with those powers. Also the way he put Midorya on the spot during the festival/tournament thing was a pretty dick thing to do to a kid who had powers for only a few months. The fact that he knew that Midorya adored him and still pushed him that way felt really weird to me.

Well mate, he did prior to that. He also showed it to him with his own body. It isn't a dick thing to do. It's the responsible thing to do. If he can't handle a flimsy tournament .he isn't fit to go out in the real world and he isn't worthy of his quirk. There were better candidates. Instead, he had faith as a teacher.

Deku would have dived head first into trouble far above his head regardless of allmight. He might have gotten slaughtered as well. He knows that but for deku not helping is not an option. It is the same for allmight and superman . And allmight knows that. He gave him his quirk, responsibility and a fighting chance. You are also forgetting that allmight was also quirkless. If he is ruined for being the best character in the show except for maybe lemillion then i don't know what to tell you.

What did you in place of deku expect anyway?With great power their will always be responsibility. He wanted it. He got it. Being the number 1 doesn't come easy.

[TheSuperMule]

Well mate, he did prior to that. He also showed it to him with his own body. It isn't a dick thing to do. It's the responsible thing to do. If he can't handle a flimsy tournament .he isn't fit to go out in the real world and he isn't worthy of his quirk. There were better candidates. Instead, he had faith as a teacher.

Deku would have dived head first into trouble far above his head regardless of allmight. He might have gotten slaughtered as well. He knows that but for deku not helping is not an option. It is the same for allmight and superman . And allmight knows that. He gave him his quirk, responsibility and a fighting chance. You are also forgetting that allmight was also quirkless. If he is ruined for being the best character in the show except for maybe lemillion then i don't know what to tell you.

What did you in place of deku expect anyway?With great power their will always be responsibility. He wanted it. He got it. Being the number 1 doesn't come easy.

Sorry. I meant no disrespect to what seems to be your favorite character for that show. I don't follow Boku no Hero for a while now. The way he decided to pass One For All to Deku was fine and it made sense. Midorya was already a hero despite having no qurks. That was pretty cool. What didn't make sense to me was the symbol of peace asking a very inexperienced kid to win a national broadcast event as way to showcase his abilities as hero when knowing that 1) His powers literally destroy Midorya's body and 2) exposing Deku to his arch-enemy who he knew was still at large and underground. To me personally it didn't felt like him having faith as a teacher and mentor but more as being manipulative and egotistical like that crazy dude in Whiplash.

This was no flimsy tournament. He was going to fight against people who were older and more experienced. And again at this point Deku is still learning how to use his powers without basically exploding. Even master Roshi, way back in Dragon Ball, participated in disguise on the martial arts tournament to make sure that Goku and Krillin wouldn't get too cocky because of their training. That they still had a lot of ways to go and improve.

Imagine Braniac invading the Earth, right? And Clark basically turns to Jon and goes: "son I want you to take this moment, to tell the world: I'm Here! I'm the son of Superman and I'm going to save everyone! I'm counting on you. Don't mess up!"

[Ascended]

All might was the symbol of peace, the number one hero. It was fantastic. It still is. Superman being that isn't a limitation,at all.

Oh, All Might is great. Love that guy. But I don't know how great his parallel is for this particular discussion.

I mean yeah, he's the #1 hero, the most powerful guy around, symbol of peace, etc etc., and all that is virtually a point-for-point comparison to Clark. All that responsibility, the burden, the target painted on your back, blah blah blah.

But All Might serves a very different role in MHA than Clark does in his comics. MHA isn't All Might's story, he's a supporting character only and what the narrative needs from him isn't the same as what Clark's story needs from Superman. It's easier to be the symbol of peace when you're not expected to be the one driving the plot.

Oh, and yeah All Might totally screwed up a bunch of things. He's a bad teacher, that's sort of his whole arc; going from effortless #1 hero to a powerless teacher with a lot to learn. In his defense we can't forget that he spent almost a year training Deku before passing his quirk on so the process wasn't rushed, nor that when All Might originally got the power he took to it immediately and didn't struggle with containing it. Deku's issues with One For All are very different from what All Might went through, so we can't totally blame the guy for not being prepared for that stuff. But even if we give him a pass for that he still never told Deku about a lot of things until he had to, hasn't been that much of a help in Deku's training (not really), and has encouraged the kid to the point of Deku nearly dying like, every other episode. Deku's gonna run head first into stupid stuff anyway, but All Might doesn't have to encourage it so much.

[manwhohaseverything]

Sorry. I meant no disrespect to what seems to be your favorite character for that show. I don't follow Boku no Hero for a while now. The way he decided to pass One For All to Deku was fine and it made sense. Midorya was already a hero despite having no qurks. That was pretty cool. What didn't make sense to me was the symbol of peace asking a very inexperienced kid to win a national broadcast event as way to showcase his abilities as hero when knowing that 1) His powers literally destroy Midorya's body and 2) exposing Deku to his arch-enemy who he knew was still at large and underground. To me personally it didn't felt like him having faith as a teacher and mentor but more as being manipulative and egotistical like that crazy dude in Whiplash.

This was no flimsy tournament. He was going to fight against people who were older and more experienced. And again at this point Deku is still learning how to use his powers without basically exploding. Even master Roshi, way back in Dragon Ball, participated in disguise on the martial arts tournament to make sure that Goku and Krillin wouldn't get too cocky because of their training. That they still had a lot of ways to go and improve.

Imagine Braniac invading the Earth, right? And Clark basically turns to Jon and goes: "son I want you to take this moment, to tell the world: I'm Here! I'm the son of Superman and I'm going to save everyone! I'm counting on you. Don't mess up!"

As said, there were better candidates. He needs to do his absolute best. When you compete, you compete to win and you are expected give it your all and more ,plus ultra. Othere, you are doing a disservice and dishonoring his fellow competitors. Why do you think kaachan was pissed at todoroki?

As his coach, its his duty to believe he can do it. Midoriya needed the goal for moving forward . As his mentor, allmight set it for him.he can fail, that isn't much of an issue. But, it is important that he tries and gives it his all in his efforts.He needs to aim high for reaching the top.

1)Most of the quarks have disadvantages, that doesn’t mean anything. Everyone works around that. That isn't much of expectation for allmight. It is a given. Especially, if you want to be number 1

2)A heroes job is in the lime light. Especially, if you are the symbol of __ or number one hero. There will be no room to hide. It's the reason superman or allmight comes forward and takes a bullet when they can easily dodge them like nothing.

Deku is in training for being a symbol like that. He would be in danger regardless. League of villains have their network. The difference is deku might have been squashed egg if he stayed in a shell. Otherwise, he sends a message. You come after me, you better be prepared. You can call that reckless. But, it is what a symbol means. He needs to be seen. Everyone needs to believe in it. Fear is not an option. Charging recklessly into battle selflessly is what people like allmight, superman.... Etc are all about. Because they need to announce
"Have no fear, i am here"
Because that announcement means a lot to people. It gives them something to hang on to. Something that might give them a second wind when they are in a pickle. So that, they are inspired to do the same for people weaker than them.

It is mate. The entire tournament was monitored. more experienced,yeah! Right! There were only first years in the tournament. Heck! It didn't even have schools strongest and best students. In the real world there won't be any training wheel. And deku gets a taste of real world throughout, especially later on. This tournament and dbz tournament are different. This is a school thing. If you are blaming allmight for being too hard on deku then, Why would you want him to fight in the tournament at full?

Tournament isn't a villain. It's the safest thing compared to real world, with decent reward and helps train.

I am spoiling . So stop, here. If you don't want that. But it is part of the reply.

spoilers:

All might didn't do any of that. He infact took an oath to not die till he makes deku to into the symbol.there is a prophecy that he will die. Allmight trains while even becoming quirkless now.

end of spoilers

[manwhohaseverything]

Oh, All Might is great. Love that guy. But I don't know how great his parallel is for this particular discussion.

I mean yeah, he's the #1 hero, the most powerful guy around, symbol of peace, etc etc., and all that is virtually a point-for-point comparison to Clark. All that responsibility, the burden, the target painted on your back, blah blah blah.

But All Might serves a very different role in MHA than Clark does in his comics. MHA isn't All Might's story, he's a supporting character only and what the narrative needs from him isn't the same as what Clark's story needs from Superman. It's easier to be the symbol of peace when you're not expected to be the one driving the plot.

Oh, and yeah All Might totally screwed up a bunch of things. He's a bad teacher, that's sort of his whole arc; going from effortless #1 hero to a powerless teacher with a lot to learn. In his defense we can't forget that he spent almost a year training Deku before passing his quirk on so the process wasn't rushed, nor that when All Might originally got the power he took to it immediately and didn't struggle with containing it. Deku's issues with One For All are very different from what All Might went through, so we can't totally blame the guy for not being prepared for that stuff. But even if we give him a pass for that he still never told Deku about a lot of things until he had to, hasn't been that much of a help in Deku's training (not really), and has encouraged the kid to the point of Deku nearly dying like, every other episode. Deku's gonna run head first into stupid stuff anyway, but All Might doesn't have to encourage it so much.

You are forgetting about deku.even though he might not share the same personality. Shares everything else with allmight. He is the protagonist.The only other difference is deku is more methodical and strategic . He plans things in his head. Allmight is intuitive and adaptive. He is sort of like kaachan.

Being the symbol of peace adds something to the character. It gives him layers. It would have worked and i believe even better if he were a protagonist. The problem is the symbol being taken as the person when writing the character. As a symbol he has to be infallible for others. But, as person he is just a guy. There are things like deku asking if he has ever failed and his explanation to deku whe he first asks whether he can be a quirkless hero. His very demeanour changes as allmight compared to when he is toshinori yagi because world needs it And he can deliver. Only a few people know toshinori.

Screwing up isn't a problem. But, as long as he is the symbol. he cannot let that break the belief of people. So, screwing up has consequences for him which are much dire. He does ofcourse. But he gives it his all and more.he bounces back especially, infront of people. He eats punches with a smile. So that the people know their hero will protect them.

He isn't a bad teacher. Screwing up doesn't make someone bad. My aunt was teacher. She fainted the first time she was taking her first class because of nervousness . That doesn't mean she is bad. In fact, she became the best.Dude,he is the one who gives deku directions and pointers. If it wasn't for him, deku wouldn't get to meet guys like grantorino, nighteye, mirio.. Etc. He does what he supposed to do. opens doors, provides him options and an example in himself . There are things he can teach him. There are things he can't.he never hid anything from deku. All the information was given to him whenever he enquired about it.the only exception is,
spoilers:

about the prophecy of his death.There being a better candidate for the quirk. He even goes out to collect information about quirks of previous one for all users

end of spoilers
Death will come regardless. Its in the job description. Deku can't play it safe,if he aims to be the symbol of peace. Allmight is by his side. Even took an oath .

[DrNewGod]

...Superman, to me, from a young age represented altruism in its purest form. His core belief: The preservation of all life, even if the cost is his own life. As an Indian, forgive me for saying, but I didn't see him as just an American hero but a hero for all humanity. A force to reconcile and unite us all; to show us that despite our differences in race, faith, sexuality, etc we are all one people living in one world...

I don't think that requires any apology on your part at all. Well said.

Well the rumors say Abrams will be rebooting him. YMMV on whether that’s a good or bad thing lol.

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

[fan_of_the_messiah]

Hello all, forgive me for bringing this topic up for discussion in case there are any US citizens who are supporters of Donald Trump on this board and I know it is cliché to say so but does anyone else draw some similarities between the Man of Steel's greatest adversary and the chap that has recently been acquitted of impeachment charges and is currently occupying your Oval office? (One striking difference being your leader doesn't suffer from alopecia universalis). Would anyone say this is a case of art imitating life........or is that the other way around?

[Jackalope89]

Hello all, forgive me for bringing this topic up for discussion in case there are any US citizens who are supporters of Donald Trump on this board and I know it is cliché to say so but does anyone else draw some similarities between the Man of Steel's greatest adversary and the chap that has recently been acquitted of impeachment charges and is currently occupying your Oval office? (One striking difference being your leader doesn't suffer from alopecia universalis). Would anyone say this is a case of art imitating life........or is that the other way around?

Both are narcissists, but Luthor is actually a genius billionaire and understands science. The other guy can't even do a good fake suntan.

[fan_of_the_messiah]

Both are narcissists, but Luthor is actually a genius billionaire and understands science. The other guy can't even do a good fake suntan.

Hahahaha, I agree 100%

[Ascended]

Hello all, forgive me for bringing this topic up for discussion in case there are any US citizens who are supporters of Donald Trump on this board and I know it is cliché to say so but does anyone else draw some similarities between the Man of Steel's greatest adversary and the chap that has recently been acquitted of impeachment charges and is currently occupying your Oval office? (One striking difference being your leader doesn't suffer from alopecia universalis). Would anyone say this is a case of art imitating life........or is that the other way around?

At the risk of helping this thread derail into a ridiculous argument over a topic that has no place here......yes, there are many similarities, and yes it makes me concerned for my nation.

[Blue22]

Hello all, forgive me for bringing this topic up for discussion in case there are any US citizens who are supporters of Donald Trump on this board and I know it is cliché to say so but does anyone else draw some similarities between the Man of Steel's greatest adversary and the chap that has recently been acquitted of impeachment charges and is currently occupying your Oval office? (One striking difference being your leader doesn't suffer from alopecia universalis). Would anyone say this is a case of art imitating life........or is that the other way around?

Well...that certainly is a controversial Superman (kinda) opinion. And one that I 100% agree with. If Young Justice's third season is anything to go by then clearly it's not just the fans who notice the similarities between the two XD

[DrNewGod]

Hello all, forgive me for bringing this topic up for discussion in case there are any US citizens who are supporters of Donald Trump on this board and I know it is cliché to say so but does anyone else draw some similarities between the Man of Steel's greatest adversary and the chap that has recently been acquitted of impeachment charges and is currently occupying your Oval office? (One striking difference being your leader doesn't suffer from alopecia universalis). Would anyone say this is a case of art imitating life........or is that the other way around?

It's a fair question. My answer is that Luthor knows what he's doing.

[Flash Gordon]

I mean, believe what you want. But when crisis happened, Warner Brothers went out of their way to request for Ezra Miller to cameo in a CW crossover, in order to drum up hype for the Flashpoint movie, so. Well, what does that tell you?

Not much, really. Ezra Miller is a big fan, and it was a real tiny cameo.

The CW shows operate solely off 'teases'. A tease of this, a tease of that.