Controversial Superman Opinions

[marhawkman]

I always thought Superman would embody Teddy Roosevelt's old adage "Speak softly, but carry a big stick".

Agreed, politely explaining to crooks why they should give up is very Superman.

[Sacred Knight]

I don't think a Superman with a pre-Crisis/New 52 personalilty ever needs to really "grow out of it" and become the boyscout eventually. I've often seen this posited as what some would have seen acceptable for the New 52 version in his growth had he been allowed to do so. I don't think that was necessary. Not saying don't mature or anything, definitely show a learning in deciphering the situations when his mind would be more suited than his brawn, absolutely. But when it comes to the criminal element, the fire he had was one of the appeals to me at the same time. If we ever get a version of that Superman again, I'd much prefer he not grow out of it wholesale. His smile, his warmth, all that stuff is reserved for the innocent, and those who can be rehabilitated.

[9th.]

I feel like more can be done with Supergirl but I just don't know what

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't think a Superman with a pre-Crisis/New 52 personalilty ever needs to really "grow out of it" and become the boyscout eventually. I've often seen this posited as what some would have seen acceptable for the New 52 version in his growth had he been allowed to do so. I don't think that was necessary. Not saying don't mature or anything, definitely show a learning in deciphering the situations when his mind would be more suited than his brawn, absolutely. But when it comes to the criminal element, the fire he had was one of the appeals to me at the same time. If we ever get a version of that Superman again, I'd much prefer he not grow out of it wholesale. His smile, his warmth, all that stuff is reserved for the innocent, and those who can be rehabilitated.

I think he needed to reign himself in more as his powers grew, because the thought of a fully powered Superman acting like he did in the Golden Age or early New 52 is a terrifying thought. Thankfully he himself realizes this within Morrison's Action run (which a lot of the critics overlook).

I agree that he should never entirely lose his edge or swagger, and never become the stereotypical boy scout. He should always have some fire in him. The "boy scout" thing needs to f***ing die already along with the Batman rivalry.

[Ascended]

Y'all know I love me my Golden Age Superman. And as far as I'm concerned he shouldn't have ever lost that edge, he never should've stopped confronting real problems.

But that's what *I* want. From a business perspective, it's too radical an idea for a lot of fans to get behind. Which is funny, of course, for a lot of reasons. But it is what it is.

So, for business reasons, I'd accept a Superman who starts out with his social crusader attitude and then slowly mellows over time.

[Sacred Knight]

Oh the power thing absolutely. In fact that was something I always wanted addressed, how his power boost forced him to reign in some physicality because he simply could kill someone where he could afford to knock some heads normally before.

[phantom1592]

Y'all know I love me my Golden Age Superman. And as far as I'm concerned he shouldn't have ever lost that edge, he never should've stopped confronting real problems.

But that's what *I* want. From a business perspective, it's too radical an idea for a lot of fans to get behind. Which is funny, of course, for a lot of reasons. But it is what it is.

So, for business reasons, I'd accept a Superman who starts out with his social crusader attitude and then slowly mellows over time.

I think that's what they should have done with Superboy. Either Jon or Kon…. Keep the traditional Superman doing the traditional Superman stuff.... and have a younger, weaker 'Super' busting some heads when needed.

[Ascended]

Oh the power thing absolutely. In fact that was something I always wanted addressed, how his power boost forced him to reign in some physicality because he simply could kill someone where he could afford to knock some heads normally before.

Well, we got a little taste of how people responded to the power increase in Smashes the Klan. And that was a pretty cool moment I thought. A nice subversion of the norm. And that one kid, who keeps asking about how Superman smells? His line there was legit scary.

I think that's what they should have done with Superboy. Either Jon or Kon…. Keep the traditional Superman doing the traditional Superman stuff.... and have a younger, weaker 'Super' busting some heads when needed.

I'd take Conner doing that as a valid substitute. I like Jon as the living Silver Age homage, so Conner as a living Golden Age homage would be fine with me.

I'd rather Superman were still truly a champion of the people, but....I don't think fans would accept it today. Look at the BS reactions to Morrison. Those were some damn smart issues; that was pure, undiluted, raw Superman, but people rejected it. So since fans wont let us have the Superman the world deserves, I'd accept Conner taking the role.

[Flash Gordon]

I agree that Conner would be better suited as a champion of the common man. That should be Superman's role, but a lot of the fandom is spilt now between the more classically depicted Golden/Silver/Bronze Age Superman and the Superman of the 90s/Superdad. So much so that I don't think a distinctly modern vision of the character can be done.

Conner Kent has way more wiggle room. You can get creative with him and tell modern stories. Stories that don't just fall into 'superhero punches supervillain' narratives.

He's also a bit weaker, younger, a lil rougher- he can have showdowns with corporate tyrants. He can get involved in labour issues, and weird science run amok. I think it works.

[Jon Clark]

I don't think a Superman with a pre-Crisis/New 52 personalilty ever needs to really "grow out of it" and become the boyscout eventually. I've often seen this posited as what some would have seen acceptable for the New 52 version in his growth had he been allowed to do so. I don't think that was necessary. Not saying don't mature or anything, definitely show a learning in deciphering the situations when his mind would be more suited than his brawn, absolutely. But when it comes to the criminal element, the fire he had was one of the appeals to me at the same time. If we ever get a version of that Superman again, I'd much prefer he not grow out of it wholesale. His smile, his warmth, all that stuff is reserved for the innocent, and those who can be rehabilitated.

Except that Morrison's story arc was supposed to span his career with those final issues showing that the "t-shirt and jeans" guy who dangled Glenmorgan over the edge of the roof eventually grew into something closer to the "boy-scout" we are used to seeing.

[Sacred Knight]

Was it? I never got that impression. There was a level of maturation by the end, but he still didn't come across as the boyscout to me. He still very much retained that champion of the people persona, although the scope of everything from his powers to his threats grew to new levels. And I don't recall the completed tale spanning his whole career, it just spanned a few years as it pertained to his Superman debut to the then-present day (loosely accommodating the 5 year timeline at the time). And I don't think there was ever an intention to do anything different since he left of his own accord when his tale was done.

All-Star is probably the better example of where he personally sees his ideal fully-fleshed Superman ending up.

[manwhohaseverything]

Oh the power thing absolutely. In fact that was something I always wanted addressed, how his power boost forced him to reign in some physicality because he simply could kill someone where he could afford to knock some heads normally before.

The guy has enough control to do everything a normal person does normally and more. Why would he need to reign in physically and not do things he usually does? He could just exert enough strength.He gets pissed he still throws you through a wall, not to the sun.

Except that Morrison's story arc was supposed to span his career with those final issues showing that the "t-shirt and jeans" guy who dangled Glenmorgan over the edge of the roof eventually grew into something closer to the "boy-scout" we are used to seeing.

He might have become all star superman. Even then that was after the powerboost and the guy wanted to live happily the rest of the days he got. And that guys was still had enough anger and solaris would vouch for that. Personally, the boyscout thing is just making the character one dimensional. I would rather clark be optimistic and badass.why do generally americans portray optimistic people as puppies?

The Japanese have no problem protraying such protagonists in a badass way. The guy is a beef cake. Have him flex his muscles once in a while. They are also for show, right? Strick a pose and not copy batman on top of a gargoyle only this time in the sun. Superman should be a physical specimen and even more so than other heroes.

[Flash Gordon]

I don't think a Superman with a pre-Crisis/New 52 personalilty ever needs to really "grow out of it" and become the boyscout eventually. I've often seen this posited as what some would have seen acceptable for the New 52 version in his growth had he been allowed to do so. I don't think that was necessary. Not saying don't mature or anything, definitely show a learning in deciphering the situations when his mind would be more suited than his brawn, absolutely. But when it comes to the criminal element, the fire he had was one of the appeals to me at the same time. If we ever get a version of that Superman again, I'd much prefer he not grow out of it wholesale. His smile, his warmth, all that stuff is reserved for the innocent, and those who can be rehabilitated.

Yeah, this idea that you need to grow up and move on from your ideals is so harmful.

Superman should remain a Peoples' Champion always.

[Kuwagaton]

Except that Morrison's story arc was supposed to span his career with those final issues showing that the "t-shirt and jeans" guy who dangled Glenmorgan over the edge of the roof eventually grew into something closer to the "boy-scout" we are used to seeing.

Yeah it seems to me like the New 52 Superman only became what he's remembered as in the misdirection of following Morrison and doubling down on the "new" qualities. But at the same time, it's not different from Golden age Superman being remembered as a down to earth rebel instead of the guy he was by wartime.

It disappointed me to think Bendis would do something closer to that in one book (filtered through his street level comic lens, of course) and a later form of Superman in the other book. Action and Superman are running different plots with different styles, but I still don't feel like they're really different books.

[Ascended]

It would've been great to see Bendis tackle a more Golden Age type of Superman. I think it'd fit his wheelhouse really damn well (and his Action has still been pretty good, especially before Leviathan). But like I said, I don't think fandom would accept it. A Superman who gets involved in our problems? Too many fans just want him punching aliens and being some sort of nebulously inspiring....thing, instead of actually doing anything worth cheering for.