Controversial Superman Opinions

[manwhohaseverything]

Either it's saccharine pap like SUPERMAN REBIRTH, or it's drama for dramas sake.

Any writer who tries something new, has it undone almost immediately by the next team.

This sentiment i can get behind.i can tolerate saccharine pap. But, the drama is unbearable.

[Morgoth]

That's not surprising at all!! The writers seem to take great pleasure in destroying a relationship be it with a wife, a girlfriend or a child!!!!

This is a consequence of the good old shitty opinion of people like DiDio and Kuesada, who sincerely believe that "heroes must suffer, they should not have a normal personal life, otherwise no one will buy comics about them".

[marhawkman]

Who else thinks Superman should be one of the best martial artists in DC?

[Stanlos]

Who else thinks Superman should be one of the best martial artists in DC?

I don't share that opinion and cannot find it in his design. By extrapolation O think it could be tacked on though depending how you are defining "one of the best martial artists in DC".

[marhawkman]

I don't share that opinion and cannot find it in his design. By extrapolation O think it could be tacked on though depending how you are defining "one of the best martial artists in DC".

I know it's an aspect of the character design that's rarely mentioned, much like how he's one of the smartest guys on Earth. But he's a guy with decades of experience in hand to hand combat, and some versions actually have him as knowing alien(including Kryptonian) martial arts that Batman can't learn.

Now the question of being "one of the best" is a bit technical since measuring how good each one is is rarely done. Also Kal-El is definitely not one of the "super" martial artists who literally lives martial arts. He's someone who knows a wide variety of martial arts techniques. Crucially, I'd say he's probably better than most Humans who use martial arts as part of heroing. In terms of pure skill, is he better than Batman? Probably not, but he's skilled enough that without powers it'd be an actual fight, and with powers his superhuman reflexes should be enough to make any conflict very very one-sided.

But if the question is "pure skill" no obviously not "the best" but far better than most. Of course when you consider that he's got immense superhuman power? Well, martial arts skill is part of why he was able to beat Doomsday. Not even Superman was strong enough to be Doomsday by brute strength.

[godisawesome]

I’m of the opinion that Superman should be extremely experienced and “battle hardened” for hand-to-hand confrontations involving super strength, invulnerability, and flight - that he’s simply more experienced and practiced with his powers than Phantom Zone escapees would be. Faora could annihilate him in a depowered fight... but she’s not used to a fight where you don’t need to anchor your foot to the ground for leverage, and he’s so much more a natural flyer that he can outflank her quickly.

[Agent Z]

Knowing two martial arts that Batman doesn't know about wouldn't make you the best martial artist or even one of the best. The actual effectiveness of those fighting styles has never been elaborated on and the constant increase of Superman's power level makes gauging his hand-to-hand combat ability very difficult if not outright impossible. Kryptonian intelligence is also rather overrated I feel when you consider all but two of these people didn't realize their planer was about to blow up. Finally, why does he need to be the best martial artist when he has options that make melee combat moot anyway?

But if the question is "pure skill" no obviously not "the best" but far better than most. Of course when you consider that he's got immense superhuman power? Well, martial arts skill is part of why he was able to beat Doomsday. Not even Superman was strong enough to be Doomsday by brute strength.

He didn't beat Doomsday in their first battle. At best they tied. In their second encounter, Superman had to rely on advanced technology.

[Jon Clark]

Who else thinks Superman should be one of the best martial artists in DC?

I've always felt that Superman's powers are a drawback to his learning hand-to-hand skills.

Imagine for argument's sake there is a universe where no supervillains exist. The Batman of this world has dealt almost exclusively with street thugs- no Bane, no Ra's or his assassins, no Deathstroke. Now this Batman finds himself working alongside "our" Batman. Would you expect them to be equals in combat? Even as driven as Bruce Wayne is he wouldn't keep the same edge to his training unless he had regular opponents who pushed him to maintain at that level.

In the same way Superman is just so powerful that he'd never develop the mindset that Bruce has. Batman has to make sure he is ready for an attack at any moment, Superman's reflexes and response time let him still have the jump on a guy who surptises him. If I land a punch on Batman even with my pathetic physique I stand a better chance of injuring Bruce than the most highly trained combatant on Earth has of injuring Superman with his best hand-to-hand attack. There just isn't the pressure on Clark to develop skills equal to anything more than your average guy who gets in a few barfights a year. Even if he was shown the moves and memorized them, if you reduced Superman to human level his attempts to apply thiose skills would be like champion MMA fighter entering the ring with a headcold and 50lb weights on both his wrists and ankles.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't know about "martial artists" whatever that is. But, superman's powers and movements are generally depicted blandly. There is no finese or uniqueness to it. He is a flying brick who flales around like baby and that is baaaaad. Superman is an alien. His movements should be more alien like. He has a freakin byakugan and 360 degree sensory capability. This something that none of the other flying bricks has in dc including wonder woman, shazam, black adam... Etc and villains . He should have no blind spots. He is agile and should be depicted as such running on electric cables, doing flips and dives... Etc. His flight should be more like swimming through a surface.I would also remove solar battery nonsense. It removes agency from superman the strongman. Oh! Superman should be a legit strongman. A pro lifter. I would also give back mix in his boxing background and connection. He would also be a serious grappler. Suplexes should be one of his go to moves. I would also give superman the muscle expansion ability. This will also help in clark kent secret identity. As clark, he would be lanky fellow. As superman, he would bulky and huge strongman. He could control this and go in between as well. Superman is also a monster and beast. Especially Considering, aliens are horror. I would add in that beast like instinctual and recklessness in superman. Chaining him would absolutely piss him off, which is the opposite of wonder woman who likes that sort of thing. A figting/movement style that's a mix of all this. He should be competent.It's all about being visually engaging and looking good.

If i am going to have sun explanation. It wouldn't be solar battery nonsense. I would make it more like a plant. There would be limits to how much he eats. It wouldn't give him instant plot device escape routes and boosts. Clark would need to focus and meditate to absorb solar radiation and convert it to his aura. The aura would then give him the necessary healing factor or if he is able to absorb enough energy a boost. The aura would act like nen. There would be various abilities and types of aura users(since there are many kryptonIan survivors ) ,with weakness and strengths.

[Agent Z]

I don't know about "martial artists" whatever that is. But, superman's powers and movements are generally depicted blandly. There is no finese or uniqueness to it. He is a flying brick who flales around like baby and that is baaaaad. Superman is an alien. His movements should be more alien like. He has a freakin byakugan and 360 degree sensory capability. This something that none of the other flying bricks has in dc including wonder woman, shazam, black adam... Etc and villains . He should have no blind spots. He is agile and should be depicted as such running on electric cables, doing flips and dives... Etc. His flight should be more like swimming through a surface.I would also remove solar battery nonsense. It removes agency from superman the strongman. Oh! Superman should be a legit strongman. A pro lifter. I would also give back mix in his boxing background and connection. He would also be a serious grappler. Suplexes should be one of his go to moves. I would also give superman the muscle expansion ability. This will also help in clark kent secret identity. As clark, he would be lanky fellow. As superman, he would bulky and huge strongman. He could control this and go in between as well. Superman is also a monster and beast. Especially Considering, aliens are horror. I would add in that beast like instinctual and recklessness in superman. Chaining him would absolutely piss him off, which is the opposite of wonder woman who likes that sort of thing. A figting/movement style that's a mix of all this. He should be competent.It's all about being visually engaging and looking good.

If i am going to have sun explanation. It wouldn't be solar battery nonsense. I would make it more like a plant. There would be limits to how much he eats. It wouldn't give him instant plot device escape routes and boosts. Clark would need to focus and meditate to absorb solar radiation and convert it to his aura. The aura would then give him the necessary healing factor or if he is able to absorb enough energy a boost. The aura would act like nen. There would be various abilities and types of aura users(since there are many kryptonIan survivors ) ,with weakness and strengths.

No offense, but your ideas of what Superman is are based way too much on anime tropes rather than anything that actually makes sense for the character.

[manwhohaseverything]

No offense, but your ideas of what Superman is are based way too much on anime tropes rather than anything that actually makes sense for the character.

Why would i take offence?if you have problems and look down on anime that's on you. As if the speed force or emotional spectrum is something great idea.

heck, yeah!it's anime influenced but only the nen part.And him running on electric cables, his sensory abilities,his flight being more like swimming, him being agile, strongmanship, boxing background, reluctance to be bound,.. Etc are all ingrained and part of the character's history. Its way better than stupidities like torqusm watchma call it.which doesn't look alien and frankly it's abit offensive. They basically mixed in taichi, yoga, wingchun... Etc and everything felt familiar, in a stereotypical manner.Alienness in movement is my own idea. If spiderman moves like agile acrobatic creepy crawler. The bat moves like a shadowy bat creature ninja. Superman should move like a strongman from space.

Edit- i forgot, i would also add the pulp fiction gunslinger vibe back to superman. Him racing bullets, dodging them... Etc. Have fun with the concept.This guy right here is my superman.

[Agent Z]

Why would i take offence?if you have problems and look down on anime that's on you. As if the speed force or emotional spectrum is something great idea.

I don't look down on anime. I just know that Superman isn't an anime character.

Contrary to what people think, Dragon Ball did not create the concept of super powered enemies duking it out and causing destruction, something that is as old as mythology.

heck, yeah!it's anime influenced but only the nen part.And him running on electric cables, his sensory abilities,his flight being more like swimming, him being agile, strongmanship, boxing background, reluctance to be bound,..
Running on electric cables is not a Superman thing. Aside from the one off where he fought Muhammad Ali, boxing isn't in his background. Pretty much everything you've listed here is either not a part of the character or is so minor in his history it might as well be non-existent.

Alienness in movement is my own idea. If spiderman moves like agile acrobatic creepy crawler. The bat moves like a shadowy bat creature ninja. Superman should move like a strongman from space.

Superman is an alien who likes like a human, was raised by humans, talks like a human and acts like a human. This overemphasis on the alienness that the Superman fandom has had over the years is nothing more than an overreaction to perceived flaws in post crisis and sour grapes over his depiction in Frank Miller's the Dark Knight.

Edit- i forgot, i would also add the pulp fiction gunslinger vibe back to superman. Him racing bullets, dodging them... Etc. Have fun with the concept.This guy right here is my superman.

That's not what being a gunslinger means.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't look down on anime. I just know that Superman isn't an anime character.


Contrary to what people think, Dragon Ball did not create the concept of super powered enemies duking it out and causing destruction, something that is as old as mythology.


Running on electric cables is not a Superman thing. Aside from the one off where he fought Muhammad Ali, boxing isn't in his background. Pretty much everything you've listed here is either not a part of the character or is so minor in his history it might as well be non-existent.



Superman is an alien who likes like a human, was raised by humans, talks like a human and acts like a human. This overemphasis on the alienness that the Superman fandom has had over the years is nothing more than an overreaction to perceived flaws in post crisis and sour grapes over his depiction in Frank Miller's the Dark Knight.



That's not what being a gunslinger means.

Doesn't matter he is pulp fiction action character. And besides, bioelectric aura as concept needs to be fleshed out more.

Riiight, but duking it out like that and effects are entirely reminiscent of dragon ball. I have read silverage superman books and other fights. Superman fights were never handled like that. Give the credit where its due.

Dude! Whaaaatt? Did you just say that? Have you read any goldenage books? Running on electric or telephone cables is entirely superman thing. It was one of his ways to scare the corrupt and criminals. It was awesome. No,other characters including the amazing spiderman has ever done that. The guy trained a world champion in goldenage. Up in the sky had a match. It was very nice. You might think it's minor part. But, that doesn’t mean squat. Aspects i loved and stories i adore i brought to the forefront. So, you can't say "that shouldn't be superman". You sound hypocritical especially when you defend zack Snyder’s superman. Pretty sure, many would say that shouldn't be superman as well. I love me a superman who breaks chains. A Strongman iteration is what i would want .

Please, wonder woman and spiderman looks like human too. Doesn't mean a thing. Spidey moves mimicking a creepy crawler to a large extent.There are tons of humanoid monster and aliens. He is an alien vigilante strongman that's in hiding on earth(because he can) while protecting the weak.That's the base concept. Alien movements are perfectly exceptable. In fact, i would love for superman to rotate his neck 360(like an owl) degree or be able to dislocate his bones (abit like snake), muscle expansion and stuff like that.He doesn't exactly shapshift its more like snakes and other creatures like that. It can easily be an evolutionary feature in high gravity environments like krypton .The golden age basically had compared superman to bugs and insects as well to explain his strength .Riiiiight,is that why golden age had pa kent asked him to hide himself? and stories like for the man who has everything can work with just human clark kent. Yeah! I don't think so. I don't particularly feel any sour grapes. I agree with miller stories in a sense.See, my primary motive is to change him or distinguish him from other flying bricks.

Are you always this nitpicky? I said, gunslinger vibe. That doesn't mean he has to start using a gun. It only means, a cool western-esque feel.You know like batman, joker and jason todd showdown.

[marhawkman]

Knowing two martial arts that Batman doesn't know about wouldn't make you the best martial artist or even one of the best. The actual effectiveness of those fighting styles has never been elaborated on and the constant increase of Superman's power level makes gauging his hand-to-hand combat ability very difficult if not outright impossible. Kryptonian intelligence is also rather overrated I feel when you consider all but two of these people didn't realize their planer was about to blow up. Finally, why does he need to be the best martial artist when he has options that make melee combat moot anyway?

He didn't beat Doomsday in their first battle. At best they tied. In their second encounter, Superman had to rely on advanced technology.

beat/tie... point is he'd have been killed by Doomsday and fully lost if not for his combat skills.

It's a fair point that he doesn't fight many enemies where he "needs" martial arts skills. That doesn't mean he can't practice them. One run of the JLA books showed that he did sparring practice with other Leaguers like WW. He knows it's just a matter of time before he'll have to fight someone like Zod, Mongul, or Darkseid, or... someone he's never heard of before. There are threats in the universe capable of challenging him even if he doesn't confront them daily.

[Vordan]

Here’s a controversial take: Zod and Doomsday should never lose to Clark on a pure physical fight. Zod has all of Clark’s powers plus is a trained lifelong military man. I don’t buy Clark being able to win in a straight up fight outside of Zod’s debut perhaps. Clark would need to use a little preptime himself to win.

Doomsday is supposed to become immune to whatever kills him right? So how come Clark can still hurt him with his fists given Doomsday died to blunt trauma last time? Doomsday should be to Clark what Clark is to the average human. When Clark punches Doomsday it should break his hand.