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  1. #16
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    If I had to choose between Superman in jeans and a T-shirt or Superman in flashy armour, I'd take the jeans and T-shirt look. I think Superman in working man clothes is more authentic to the character than Superman in some over-embellished warrior armour. He doesn't need a high-tech outfit, he's Superman.

    What the general audience laugh at isn't just trunks over leggings--that's just one detail they focus on--what they're really laughing about is the flamboyant nature of the outfits super-heroes wear. But if you put Tom Welling or Henry Cavill in jeans and a T-shirt, it's easier for the audience to put aside their disbelief and get into the story of an extra-terrestrial raised as a human.

  2. #17
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I don't mind Superman as a vegetarian.

    I also wouldn't be too upset if Clark were raised in a more urban area. To say the only white folks populate rural areas is not true though. Smallville, Kansas can be as diverse as you make it. I simply just do not like this idea that "Midwestern values" make him Superman, especially since Recession Era America is not a Rockwell painting of family life.

    Superman is a progressive socialist crusader. He isn't traditional in any sense. He's an alien sun god who liberates people. It's important that he is working class and that he comes from humble beginnings though. He's a humble man, a hard working man.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 11-30-2016 at 10:12 PM.

  3. #18
    Incredible Member Agniwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If I had to choose between Superman in jeans and a T-shirt or Superman in flashy armour, I'd take the jeans and T-shirt look. I think Superman in working man clothes is more authentic to the character than Superman in some over-embellished warrior armour. He doesn't need a high-tech outfit, he's Superman.

    What the general audience laugh at isn't just trunks over leggings--that's just one detail they focus on--what they're really laughing about is the flamboyant nature of the outfits super-heroes wear. But if you put Tom Welling or Henry Cavill in jeans and a T-shirt, it's easier for the audience to put aside their disbelief and get into the story of an extra-terrestrial raised as a human.
    so it is wrong for a extraterrestrial to dress like an extraterrestrial for the sake of being a extrahuman?

    oh and im not criticizing, cause after all this tread is for opinions, i just didnt understand
    Last edited by Agniwolf; 11-30-2016 at 10:09 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agniwolf View Post
    so it is wrong for a extraterrestrial to dress like an extraterrestrial for the sake of being a extrahuman?

    oh and im not criticizing, cause after all this tread is for opinions, i just didnt understand
    I'm just saying if I was forced to choose, it fits Superman better to be in regular clothes than the armour. But obviously, I don't prefer either.

    In the early designs for Superman, Shuster drew him in regular street clothes--and in various adventures, Superman didn't always suit up, he'd sometmes go into action in regular clothes. So to me, that guy still has the look of Superman. Plus regular clothes don't become as dated so fast as some of these designs for alien armour.

    I dont really believe that human-looking aliens would wear the kind of outfits that we see in a lot of science fiction movies. They would dress for comfort and for fashion. I guess that the John Byrne Mike Mignola Kryptonians make sense in their dress, for the upper class indulged elite. Those outfits are reasonable for that kind of world--it's just not a version of Krypton I like.

    The Shuster Superman suit makes sense, because it's the kind of action outfit that somebody would throw together in 1938. It doesn't look extra-terrestrial--it just looks like a showman's outfit. Had Superman been created in the '70s, he'd probably wear something like the Elvis Presley and Evel Knievel jumpsuits.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member Agniwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I'm just saying if I was forced to choose, it fits Superman better to be in regular clothes than the armour. But obviously, I don't prefer either.

    In the early designs for Superman, Shuster drew him in regular street clothes--and in various adventures, Superman didn't always suit up, he'd sometmes go into action in regular clothes. So to me, that guy still has the look of Superman. Plus regular clothes don't become as dated so fast as some of these designs for alien armour.

    I dont really believe that human-looking aliens would wear the kind of outfits that we see in a lot of science fiction movies. They would dress for comfort and for fashion. I guess that the John Byrne Mike Mignola Kryptonians make sense in their dress, for the upper class indulged elite. Those outfits are reasonable for that kind of world--it's just not a version of Krypton I like.

    The Shuster Superman suit makes sense, because it's the kind of action outfit that somebody would throw together in 1938. It doesn't look extra-terrestrial--it just looks like a showman's outfit. Had Superman been created in the '70s, he'd probably wear something like the Elvis Presley and Evel Knievel jumpsuits.
    isee, i makes sense now, and i do agree with the comfortable clothes thing

    still like the battle armor tho

    in fact i would like to see him with the elite guard clothes too (saw lara n zod using those somewere)

  6. #21
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Controversial? I'm not sure how controversial my opinions are, but there's fairly specific, I guess. We'll see how controversial they are.

    1)I think his name is Clark Joseph Kent, and I think that's what who he thinks of himself. I think "Kal-El" is a sign of remembrance, respect, and love for his lost culture at best. In someways it's also the first word in the first sentence to an entire "what if" story that Clark will never get to write. I think Clark had acclimate himself to the idea of being a Kryptonian. I don't agree with the idea that he's somehow "lost his flavor" or become "Marvel-ized because he doesn't he's not working under the Elliot S Maggin/Mark Millar idea. I thank that severely undervalues the inherent first generation immigrant (wasn't really born here but he has next to no memories of his old planet) idea. Whenever some native speaker like Zod or Kara get on Clark for how awkward his Kryptonian sounds, I applaud the writer who thinks of that scene. That is SUCH a legit aspect to being "of two world." I'm first generation born in America, but due to the fact my motherland culture was still very present in my life, I'm bilingual. But even so I make a point to respond in as little of my mother langue as I can because my accent for it is horrible. I like the idea of Kandor because it's like all the times visited my motherland, and felt the sort of bittersweet feeling of being in a place full of people who should be like but still aren't. You laugh because you get some jokes or gestures that have no equivalent in English, but you still feel like just one step above a tourist, and as soon as you open your moth strangers there think of you that way. You always have this feeling of needing to validate yourself for something that should be your birthright.

    You do the whole Maggin/Millar thing where he's just and alien who likes us a lot, and you strip ALL of that away, IMO. People assume that because Clark doesn't see himself as Superman pretending, somehow he isn't alien or interesting enough. That's a gross oversimplification, and doesn't aknowldge the large amount of people (like myself, Yang, and Pak) who really live in "two worlds." Just like Clark, I have a special other name that only a select few know.


    2)I think Jimmy Olsen should've gotten a show over Supergirl. Obviously nothing even close to the Jimmy of the show, honest to goodness Jimmy Olsen. I think he's more interesting in a TV setting (Network or Steaming), far more versatility, and far less pressured expectation placed on him (I said less not none). Jimmy's essentially one big metaphor/stand in for being late teen early 20s. His life is the equivalent of taking as many random 101 classes in collage as you can. Every strange transformation, gypsy's curse, and alien abduction is Jimmy doing another "101 class." What you've basically got is Doctor Who, but he's allowed to meet superheroes, and have strange transformations. I just think he's by far the most interesting character out of the Superman world that should have a show.


    3)I don't think Superman comics should actually have Superman getting into a violent confrontation for more than 2 and a half pages most of the time. I think there should be a stronger refocusing on adventure and less orthodox conflicts than physical ones. Not saying that his fights should never ever be longer. Hell I think on the special occasions where he actually has a big brawl or something it should be a 1 to 2 issue "mini event" in the book. "Good lord, he can hit Superman" isn't as compelling if it's a pretty normal situation, ya know?


    4)I think the Superman movie reboot should've been the world's most expensive indie movie. I think that should've made it predominantly a character piece that happened to have well placed action in it, and not mainly an action movie. I think Superman should've been the only alien for at least the first movie. I wouldn't say it's tone should've been "light" in the same sense as a Marvel film. However, I will say the movie should've had a slightly offbeat dry humor to it when appropriate. You'd be surprised how well that works for Superman's world.


    5)I think Superman: Secret Identity is one of the characters defining books, and it should be a template for nearly all mainstream Superman. I'm glad to see that Rebirth Superman somewhat lines up with it at times.

    6)I personally like it when Superman is a skilled engineer and scientist, but I don't actually think it's at all imperative to his character, or even needed to make him clever in situations.


    7)I think pro wresting, and Dragon Ball are two of the actual worst things to ever influence Superman, and the perceptions of fans on the character. These two things aren't inherently bad (I'm a fan of Dragon Ball) but the way that western audiences have filtered them is just the worst. Doesn't help at all how the English dub of Goku is a bastardization of the creators original intent (he's spoken about this before).

    8)I think Lex is essentially part of the supporting cast, and that's a good thing. Even when he's outed as a bad guy. I think the second you turn him into some over hyped boogeyman you cut down what makes him interesting and cool. Lex being in an issue shouldn't be a special event unless he's decided that he's gonna rip open a dimension or something.

    9) I think a fair amount of Superman issues from time to time should be straight up "slice of life" style books. I think walking in Clark's shoes for a day without the world ending is hella compelling. I always wondered weird things like if Clark liked his hair cut. Since you know he basically can't change it too much ever because he's Superman. What's that like? Not being able to do something so simple because of the life choices you've made? That idea could spin out, and build throughout a whole issue into something interesting. I don't think the world has to always get close to ending to have great Superman stories. The increasingly peculiar life of the alien, Clark Kent, is quite interesting in and of itself.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 12-01-2016 at 01:58 AM.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    1) I think that Truth was actually a good story, which will become more liked as the time passes. And I really loved the Mythbrawl and what it entailed.

    2) I don't think that decades of background makes a character like Superman interesting, it rather makes it hard to understand what happens to him for people who just enter into the comics world.

    3) I think that Clark Kent his true identity and Superman the mask he wears to be among those "gods" who protect Earth. At his heart, he is before anything else a farmer's boy willing to do good. Is alien legacy is more something which is brought by his opponents and not something he truly feels, at least not positively, most of the time.

    4) Superman should be smarter than Bruce Wayne and Luthor when it comes to to hard sciences, but he shouldn't be able to come up with incredibly complexes strategies or solutions to social or actual fights because he lacks the ruthlessness (Lex) or the dedication (Bruce) to pursue the kind of reflexion it require. Taht is not to say that he can't come up with good plans when it comes to defeating a foe. it means that his mind isn't turned to subjugating anyone.

    5) I think Lex Luthors works better as an ally of Superman, albeit one the Man of Steel doesn't really trust, than an enemy. Hence why I hope that Superlex and Superdad will both remains good.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm not crazy about a Superman in T-shirt and jeans unless it's Superboy .
    Clark has connections to a alien civiization,while kon is based and a product of earth,and more specifically America.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The New 52 suit is better than the current one. I liked it from the start, sue me.

    Doomsday has more potential than most think if the "Kryptonian myth/boogeyman" idea is played upon and explored far more.

    The longer the cape, the better.

    He looked cool with the long hair outside of certain artists who couldn't draw it right.

    In terms of brute strength he should significantly stronger than all his comrades, with the only ones close being Wonder Woman, J'onn, and Aquaman in that order.

    Superman is significantly smarter on an intellectual level than every human with the exception of Lex Luthor, of whom he's still smarter but not by as much as Lex is the smartest human being on Earth. I'm sorry if that's OP but he is of a blood-line that is respected by Brainiac for its brain power. Dude is well beyond a human level of intelligence, and that includes Bruce Wayne and Michael Holt. That just should be the way it is unless they change these basic facts about Kryptonians and specifically the El line.

    Some drew the new 52 suit terrible,but some made it look totally badass,WAY better than what we have now,which would look so much better imo if the wrist design was red,the belt connected,and the boots were red,then it also would.look badass imo.

    Agree about doomsday being the ultimate kryptonian Boogeyman.

    Agree about longer capes over shorter ones

    Agree about his long hair,haters gonna hate,but I loved Superman comics in the 90s.

    If Diana and Billy both are a 100,then Superman should be around 110 to 120 imo,he just shouldn't have any competition from earthly beings .

    DC downplays his intelligence so puny "cool' human characters have something to offer or over him,which should never happen,he is a kryptonian,he processes everything a million times better and faster than any human could dream of,plus he is a El.


    Oh and I like when Superman gets into big fights,BUT he is to powerful and to smart to need to fight to accomplish whatever he wants too.i see kon being more of a brawler than Kal would ever be.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
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    1- I feel like no one has ever written Superman properly. Yeah, I like most of his portrayals but I don't feel like I have ever seen a Superman whom I think is the real deal.
    2- I don't think Red Son Superman was a villain at all not even an antihero
    3- Superman should rarely hang out with Batman
    4- I hate Superman as a supporting character
    5- Hate cheesy shows who have Superman as a supporting character
    Last edited by Francisco; 12-01-2016 at 08:27 AM.
    "By force of will he turns his gaze upon the seething horror bellow us on the hillside.
    Yes, he feels the icy touch of fear, but he is not cowed. He is Superman!"

  10. #25
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    You do the whole Maggin/Millar thing where he's just and alien who likes us a lot, and you strip ALL of that away, IMO. People assume that because Clark doesn't see himself as Superman pretending, somehow he isn't alien or interesting enough. That's a gross oversimplification, and doesn't aknowldge the large amount of people (like myself, Yang, and Pak) who really live in "two worlds." Just like Clark, I have a special other name that only a select few know.
    You're totally right, of course (how many times have we've had this discussion?). Superman has a foot equally in both worlds. He's the guy who grew up on the farm as much as he's the stranger in a strange land. I feel like thats the direction the franchise was headed in when Crisis and Byrne forced it to veer off onto a twenty-five year "Clark's Life Matters" tangent. You and I and others talk about the complex psychology of the character but its a thing we only glimpse in the comics when a good writer rolls around. I feel like if Byrne hadn't taken the direction he did, maybe that'd be more common and Superman wouldnt be struggling as much.

    I love Landis' title; American Alien. Hits the right chords perfectly; supporting the "normal" and "extranormal" aspects of Clark Kent. Which is funny considering the nature of the story.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  11. #26
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Let's see if I can get people mad at me lol.

    1) The trunks aren't a big deal either way and I think the only people who give a damn are us comic nerds. No one is going to refuse to try reading Superman if he wears the trunks or visa versa.

    2) the original version of Jim Lee's Nuperman design was pure ass. Sorry,but it's true. When later artists tweaked it,it looked ok.

    3) Lois Lane is as important to the overall Superman legend as Superman himself...BUT that does not necessarily mean she has to be his only love interest or wife.

    4) the hatred from some here and elsewhere directed towards Jon is petty,childish and just mean,and I think in part is fueled not only the circumstances of his arrival,but because his mother is Lois Lane and not...someone else.

    5) Superdad is what should have been done in 2011 along with an origin retweak by Morrison....NOT Nuperman.

    6) that being said, Nuperman had some redeeming qualities and if they simply fixed a few things and brought in the quality writing we have now I'd still be ok with Nuperman sticking around.

    7) Dan Jurgens shouldn't be writing Superman stories in 2016...but I think he'd be a kickass editor in the vein of Mike Carlin.

    8) Superman would be in MUCH better shape if he wasn't completely rebooted in 1986.

    9) Post Crisis era was the greatest and worst era for Superman simultaneously.

    10) Superman should have a beard. Yes I said it.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  12. #27
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    Keep the red hair, but Lana Lang ought to be Asian-American. That's one of the diversity changes that actually made some sense to me.

  13. #28
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Keep the red hair, but Lana Lang ought to be Asian-American. That's one of the diversity changes that actually made some sense to me.
    I agree. Also Pete can be African American. SMALLVILLE in terms of casting had some good ideas. Smallville can still be a Midwestern town while being diverse. I live in the boonies here in VA in a rural area much like Smallville and it's becoming a fairly diverse community.

    I also wouldn't mind if Lois was Asian,or afro American or even latina in future retellings.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    Even though I don't like... really all of the changes from New52 Superman (need to come up with a better name than Nuperman), the armor suit, the solar flare, the relationship with wonder woman, the whole motorcycle phase, I still respect what they did with him, because they actually bothered to take risks with the character. Unlike Green Lantern and Batman, they actually took advantage of the reboot and told stories that you couldn't have told without the reboot. Really what brought him down was the damn crossovers, which could have just been solved by taking it easy on the events.
    I think it would be great if N52 Lex Luthor doesn't go bad again, and actually ends up following in the footsteps of N52 Lois and Clark and dies heroically and Mr El's Lex from post-crisis eventually comes back. It would be a nice way to put a bow on the new 52 era and give a satisfying and less predictable end to Lex's arc. It would be interesting to see how Supes would react to seeing his nemesis sacrifice himself.
    I know its a hot button here but "Clark" being the real guy makes more sense to me, I mean he was "Clark" before he was Superman.
    I changed my mind, I'm actually warming up to Jon. He's a likable addition and its nice seeing Supes as dad. I think the only reason I didn't like the idea in the first place was Superman Returns.
    I second that Superman should have a beard. Beards makes everything better. Give Wonder Woman a beard next.
    Superman should spend some time in space. Just exploring and offering help wherever he can.

  15. #30
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    You're totally right, of course (how many times have we've had this discussion?). Superman has a foot equally in both worlds. He's the guy who grew up on the farm as much as he's the stranger in a strange land. I feel like thats the direction the franchise was headed in when Crisis and Byrne forced it to veer off onto a twenty-five year "Clark's Life Matters" tangent. You and I and others talk about the complex psychology of the character but its a thing we only glimpse in the comics when a good writer rolls around. I feel like if Byrne hadn't taken the direction he did, maybe that'd be more common and Superman wouldnt be struggling as much.
    Lol this is like round 5 or something. Yeah I think Byrne ultimately did wrong, BUT I never thought it was because of his "Superman is what I do, but Clark is who am" line. I don't think that's inherently wrong at all. Where Byrne shoots himself and Superman in the foot is the idea of Superman largely rejecting the very idea of his second culture. I don't mind Clark being apprehensive of his Kryptonian heritage when he finally discovers it. The first few times I went to visit my mom's country (and I could recollect it), I promise you I had some serious reservations. I'd spent about 9 to 10 years with one particular culture. There was no way that the I was gonna readily except the idea that I wasn't just an American. Even though my mom, the family we have over here, and myself being bilingual were actual physical reminders that I had more to me, it still had trouble really embracing. With age came wisdom, and through the years I grew more and more to the point that I look at my second flag with a swell of pride in my heart. Though with that said, America is the first true home I can remember, and nothing can change that in my heart.

    I figure that's what Byrne was clumsily trying to impart. Max Landis' Superman American Alien takes Byrne's idea and makes it work far better. When Clark says (in one of the coolest lines he's ever uttered) "I'm not from Krypton. I'm from Kansas" I totally get that it's not a knock against Krypton. I get this because Landis makes damn sure to show that Clark wanted nothing more than to find out more about his second culture. He went so far as to paint his family crest on his chest in hopes that maybe one of the broadcast from Earth will be picked up by a Kryptonian. But Clark is right when he says he's not a product of Krypton. Earth informed his formative development far more the Krypton. Earth is where Clark Kent is from. It's only later that he REALLY gets in touch with Krypton (in basically every incarnation). And I think it's such a topical and beautiful idea for the modern day. So many people in America seem to have to fight to validate themselves as Americans these days. We may be born of immigrants, have the ability to speak another language, and we may have middle or last names that hard difficult to pronounce, but believe me when I say we're American as it gets.

    I don't think eventually having respect, love, reverence for his Kryptonian culture stops Clark from proudly being a man of Earth. I think DC needs to start treating Krypton as if it were another "nation" rather than some unknowable alien culture. It sounds strange, but I fully believe this to be the way to solve the question of "who does he see himself as." I personally suggest a small build up. Relatively small lines at first like Lois telling Jon not to say he's half alien, but instead to proudly say that he's half Kryptonian. This would be because Lois feels "alien" is a bit derogatory, and she won't have her son dismissing his second culture (I remember getting talks similar to this as a kid). Then escalate it up to Clark and Lois making Kryptonian food a few days of the week for dinner. Then bring in special holidays, naming ceremonies for Jon, and things in the culture that Clark doesn't fully agree with because of his upbringing. I think this would make it far more inviting and flexible for writers to play with. I also think it adds relatabilty but doesn't sacrifice the awe of Krypton. That's basically where I've landed on the whole thing.

    I love Landis' title; American Alien. Hits the right chords perfectly; supporting the "normal" and "extranormal" aspects of Clark Kent. Which is funny considering the nature of the story.
    American Alien is quite possibly the most brilliant and evocative title that I've seen given to a Superman product. It's the perfect encapsulation of the character that draws from all the way back to his first appearance. I hope people use this title from time to time when addressing Clark (as seen in Trinity), and maybe even as a title for a movie or something because it's gold.

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