Controversial Superman Opinions

[manwhohaseverything]

I would be content with them if they actually write clark as more contemporary hero at the very least. I also hate superman being boxed in a typical role for instance being some kind guy who gives wierd speeches that's actually doesn't mean anything .

[Nelliebly]

While with some heavy lifting it may be possible to change Clark's profession, I don't think it's really possible to move Lois from journalism. She would no longer be his rival.

Hell, the model for "how do we update the love interest and make her kick ass" is "just make her Lois Lane." Not even Mary Jane over at Marvel could resist that gravitational pull. Mary Jane Watson.

I know—it’s funny Bc there are always posts (usually written by kids) over on tumblr complaining about why all the women are journalists and they list all these women and include Lois on there as one of many. And you always see someone jump on it like “whoa whoa whoa hang on kid”. All of these other women were copies of Lois Lane. Lois was the original and journalism actually was a core of Superman. It’s all these other stories who tried to steal from Superman but just couldn’t get it right. Leave Lois out of this! LOL

[Flash Gordon]

I know—it’s funny Bc there are always posts (usually written by kids) over on tumblr complaining about why all the women are journalists and they list all these women and include Lois on there as one of many. And you always see someone jump on it like “whoa whoa whoa hang on kid”. All of these other women were copies of Lois Lane. Lois was the original and journalism actually was a core of Superman. It’s all these other stories who tried to steal from Superman but just couldn’t get it right. Leave Lois out of this! LOL

In 1938 it was a job that they could give to a female lead and yet still have her be able to participate in the action. That's why so many Golden Age female characters have that job.

It's not really at the core of the concept at all.

[Yoda]

Journalism isn’t a core concept connected to the Superman mythos? Seriously?

And the prevalence of women journalists in superhero fiction is unconnected to Lois Lane being the most well known and famous example (and likely the 1st)? And she was based on Nellie Blye a real journalist at the time. Never seen it claimed she was modeled after some acceptable trend for women’s professions in the 1930’s.

[manwhohaseverything]

Journalism isn’t a core concept connected to the Superman mythos? Seriously?

And the prevalence of women journalists in superhero fiction is unconnected to Lois Lane being the most well known and famous example (and likely the 1st)? And she was based on Nellie Blye a real journalist at the time. Never seen it claimed she was modeled after some acceptable trend for women’s professions in the 1930’s.

No, it ain't. The office drama and romantic drama is more important. I haven't seen as much superman comics with a good journalism angle.but,i get the intent was to have a couple of good ethical journalist. but, that is besides the point. (that includes the original) Office drama ain't journalism. You can have that kind of thing in many settings other than journalism, if you want. And superman was based on strongman, zorro, tarzan... Etc. I haven't even seen the guy lift for training much Nor have i seen the guy having much of a dashing debonair personality like zorro, In ages. Either make journalism in the books good. Or don't say its important. It's like the underwear debate for superman. I am not even sure why people want it when the character doesn't embody anything about the strongman suit.

[Flash Gordon]

Journalism isn’t a core concept connected to the Superman mythos? Seriously?

And the prevalence of women journalists in superhero fiction is unconnected to Lois Lane being the most well known and famous example (and likely the 1st)? And she was based on Nellie Blye a real journalist at the time. Never seen it claimed she was modeled after some acceptable trend for women’s professions in the 1930’s.

Nah, it's not a core concept to the Superman mythology at all. It's barely used beyond dated references to "front page news" or Lois talking about a Pulitzer. There's no thought put into what journalism is today.

Unfortunately female characters didn't have a lot to choose from profession wise in 1938. It's a testament to how solid Siegel 'n Shuster were that she even got to have a career in the stories, much of the material at that time was misogynistic in every way shape and form. It's 2020 now, where I am at least, so I think improvements can be made.

[manwhohaseverything]

Nah, it's not a core concept to the Superman mythology at all. It's barely used beyond dated references to "front page news" or Lois talking about a Pulitzer. There's no thought put into what journalism is today.

Unfortunately female characters didn't have a lot to choose from profession wise in 1938. It's a testament to how solid Siegel 'n Shuster were that she even got to have a career in the stories, much of the material at that time was misogynistic in every way shape and form. It's 2020 now, where I am at least, so I think improvements can be made.

They even had clark being the bad guy in their relationship and reason for rejections. That also is worthy of consideration.

[Yoda]

Nah, it's not a core concept to the Superman mythology at all. It's barely used beyond dated references to "front page news" or Lois talking about a Pulitzer. There's no thought put into what journalism is today.

Unfortunately female characters didn't have a lot to choose from profession wise in 1938. It's a testament to how solid Siegel 'n Shuster were that she even got to have a career in the stories, much of the material at that time was misogynistic in every way shape and form. It's 2020 now, where I am at least, so I think improvements can be made.

I’m not really understanding your argument here. Lois was inspired by Torchy Blane and Nellie Bly. Fictional and real women journalists. She’s surpassed both really and remains an actual inspiration to women journalists.

Journalism is a core concept of the mythos. It’s been part of it consistently for all 80 years and is inextricably linked to the character. The lack of use in comics is meaningless. Comics are close to irrelevant at this point.

[manwhohaseverything]

I’m not really understanding your argument here. Lois was inspired by Torchy Blane and Nellie Bly. Fictional and real women journalists. She’s surpassed both really and remains an actual inspiration to women journalists.

Journalism is a core concept of the mythos. It’s been part of it consistently for all 80 years and is inextricably linked to the character. The lack of use in comics is meaningless. Comics are close to irrelevant at this point.

What he is saying is that its a shell, a relic structure used as punch line with nothing going for it. Nothing more, nothing less. Its the same as the clark kent glasses identity. It was an absurd joke. Now, the humor has left the chat room.

[Ascended]

Nah, it's not a core concept to the Superman mythology at all. It's barely used beyond dated references to "front page news" or Lois talking about a Pulitzer. There's no thought put into what journalism is today.

I disagree with that. Journalism, and more precisely the search for truth to bring justice to those who abuse power, is central to the foundation of the mythos. It's not just about Superman beating up the villain, it's about Clark and Lois revealing secrets "Those In Power" want hidden and creating positive social change in a long-term way that Superman can't.

We see this play out over and over again; it wasn't Superman who ultimately defeated Lex Luthor in Action 700, or Glennmorgan in Morrison's Action run. It was Clark and Lois.

Journalism is, ultimately, about accountability and bringing that to people who otherwise wouldn't be held accountable. That's pretty core to who and what Superman is. It is the lever that the "average man" uses to balance the corruption and abuses of the powerful.

You're absolutely right that DC has f*cked it all up in recent years, ignored this facet of the mythos and characters and given little more than lip service to the profession while ignoring everything that is happening in that industry, using it, at best, as an excuse to put Lois in danger. And in roughly the same span of time the quality of the books has been very much noticeably lower. That's not a coincidence; DC has ignored half of who and what Superman is so of course the books have suffered.

[Flash Gordon]

I disagree with that. Journalism, and more precisely the search for truth to bring justice to those who abuse power, is central to the foundation of the mythos. It's not just about Superman beating up the villain, it's about Clark and Lois revealing secrets "Those In Power" want hidden and creating positive social change in a long-term way that Superman can't.

We see this play out over and over again; it wasn't Superman who ultimately defeated Lex Luthor in Action 700, or Glennmorgan in Morrison's Action run. It was Clark and Lois.

Journalism is, ultimately, about accountability and bringing that to people who otherwise wouldn't be held accountable. That's pretty core to who and what Superman is. It is the lever that the "average man" uses to balance the corruption and abuses of the powerful.

You're absolutely right that DC has f*cked it all up in recent years, ignored this facet of the mythos and characters and given little more than lip service to the profession while ignoring everything that is happening in that industry, using it, at best, as an excuse to put Lois in danger. And in roughly the same span of time the quality of the books has been very much noticeably lower. That's not a coincidence; DC has ignored half of who and what Superman is so of course the books have suffered.

I mean, sure- when you describe it that way, that sounds great. That just is not how Superman and his mythology has been presented outside of maybe a few instances. Journalism just doesn't really factor in.

Back in '38 it was a way for Clark to keep his ear to current happenings and find out where he's needed, but he doesn't need that anymore. It was also a way to have Lois Lane be involved in the action, in a time when women weren't portrayed that way. These things are of their time, and while they'd work in a period piece they just do not work in 2020.

Nobody wants to really read a Superman who operates in the actual world of journalism (I would absolutely dig it, personally). It would be a lot of research and writing and talking, just with the darker side of more job cuts and multimedia conglomerate control. You can tell a story about that, sure- Robanker has pointed out an interesting way of looking at the Daily Planet in a 2020 lens- but these things are not what ACTION COMICS is about ya know? I've also yet to see a creative team that actually writes journalists how they actually are, and the place they occupy in the world. Which is even MORE frustrating in the present when we need real journalists more than ever.

"Clark Kent" is a disguise for Superman so that he can "pass" as a normal man in a normal context. This could be any job. I'd actually like to just see him doing odd jobs here and there, along with writing. A man adrift, like many people are in today's world. If you want to go with "Clark Kent" is the real guy, even more reason to give him some character.

As for Lois Lane? Special Agent Lois Lane, FBI has a nice ring to it. Something Dale Cooper-y. I rewatched MAN OF STEEL recently and felt Amy Adams' Lois Lane rang very much like Dana Scully. Actually made the movie work a little more for me than it has in the past.

[Flash Gordon]

Journalism is a core concept of the mythos. It’s been part of it consistently for all 80 years and is inextricably linked to the character. The lack of use in comics is meaningless. Comics are close to irrelevant at this point.

I am only really interested in comic books. My interest in these characters is primarily as comic book characters.

I also don't think a CW show is going to do ANYTHING remotely novel, and that's the only other place Superman is showing up now so I would not say the comics are irrelevant.

[Ascended]

I mean, sure- when you describe it that way, that sounds great. That just is not how Superman and his mythology has been presented outside of maybe a few instances. Journalism just doesn't really factor in.

Yeah, like I said DC has dropped the ball, a lot, and often. But if we place the blame for DC's ineptitude on the characters and mythos then why bother reading Superman at all?

And like you said, journalism is more important now than ever before. Seems like Clark's traditional job is something that needs to be written *correctly* for a change, not abandoned.

I don't think its a coincidence that Bendis' Action has been touted as the best take on Metropolis we've had since the triangle era and it's also the only run in recent memory that has actually done anything with the Planet, Clark's job, and his co-workers.

Like most things in the mythos, the problem lies not in the concept but in DC's failure to capitalize on it. And that's easy to fix.

[Jackalope89]

Since it was summarily dismissed from "What should Conner wear" thread, Clark should dress up like original Nutty Professor when at work. He's actually partway there in most iterations, but he needs to go that final step.

And yes, I am throwing out Bendis' reveal. I don't like it, I don't want it.

[Flash Gordon]

Yeah, like I said DC has dropped the ball, a lot, and often. But if we place the blame for DC's ineptitude on the characters and mythos then why bother reading Superman at all?

And like you said, journalism is more important now than ever before. Seems like Clark's traditional job is something that needs to be written *correctly* for a change, not abandoned.

I don't think its a coincidence that Bendis' Action has been touted as the best take on Metropolis we've had since the triangle era and it's also the only run in recent memory that has actually done anything with the Planet, Clark's job, and his co-workers.

Like most things in the mythos, the problem lies not in the concept but in DC's failure to capitalize on it. And that's easy to fix.

I don't see it as DC's fault. They're just the publisher. Like I said, people wouldn't really want to see a realistic depiction of journalism in a Superman comic, nor is a corporate character able to really have strong opinions. People read Superman for action and adventure, not for an introspective look into the collapse of print media. Or a realistic hard look at the corporate news media. Plus, most comic book writers have not a clue what it's like to be a real journalist, and don't seem interested in figuring it out (because Superman's stories are rarely ever actually about that). That's why the Daily Planet is pretty much just shown as "generic office" with generic office style humor. Which is exhausting.

The world needs real journalists now more than ever, hell yeah 200%. Superman is not real though. It would be better to update him from his 1938 context. He's going to continue to slide into obscurity the more and more his world becomes dated and resists change.

As for Bendis' run, which I have thought has been the most superior the books have been in several years, the Daily Planet still doesn't really matter. Those opening DAILY PLANET news feeds are lame. Perry White yells some stuff. Bendis actually is someone with some journalistic knowledge, too- still doesn't work.