Controversial Superman Opinions

[manwhohaseverything]

The amount of energy needed to be absorbed isn't equivalent to what superman releases . Superman would need to eat 100s of suns literally to pull off some of the ridiculous stunts he pulls off like travelling 1000 times faster than light. He doesn't have enough surface area and right shape to absorb light radiation of that magnitude, regardless. There is reason leaves, solar panels... Etc are usually flat .So realism argument doesn't hold weight. Superman would need to look like a giant leaf or satellite or solar panels or something. That too, he would need to be longer surface area than atleast the surface area of the planet.

The only realistic superman is the first one with ability run faster than locomotive, able to lift heavy weights, leap 1/8th mile, durability of tanking at best bursting shell.. Etc. Even that's pushing it. But, the bug explanation of siegel and shuster was pretty good all things considered.Realistically superman would never fly. At best he would be hoping around like an arthropod. His body structure and composition atleast should be internally different.Heck! Having an exoskeleton would be very much in the realm of possibility. Higher gravity can be used for explaining the structural durability of the body. If you want a realistic superman. That's the best you can do. He won't be lifting huge objects without going right through it. Not that, that superman can lift a plane.


Now on to the next powerlevel and mythic storytelling .As if, sun is requirement for blowing up a planet or being that powerful. That's a no brainer. Sun didn't make superman powerful. The explanation was put in to give the illusion of superman's ridiculous feats such as tanking nukes as realistic . But, it doesn't. It would never make sense because its not meant to be realistic. It's meant to be mythic like moses parting the sea, krishna lifting a mountain with a finger, jesus walking on water... Etc. Superman isn't powerful because of the sun explanation. It's because superman became powerful the sun explanation was put in so that people can have crutch for realism . The first thing one punch man does is make fun of readers who cling to surreal explanations because they want to force something to be not absurd and entirely realistic Or atleast keep the delusion of it.One punch man's power source is this.


People where expecting a grand explanation like gods, aliens, flying donkeys... Etc. But, they got this. Superman doesn't need the sun. He could lift a planet with hundred pushups. If you think that's absurd. Then you shouldn't be reading superman in the first place cause the guy wears a glass for disguise. A guy sneezing away galaxy is never gonna be realistic. It would always be absurd. Superman would always have the absurd in him. He can be strong enough to kill a godzilla and still not be able to kill a mosquito. Anyways, as if Goku needs the sun to destroy a planet. The phoenix force doesn't need it.The hulk powered by toba just smashed an entire multiverse that was supposed to exist after this one.As if, gamma radiation can do that. It's a freaking story. Make stuff up.

Now why do i hate the sun explanation. Well, the narrative makes it seem like human effort or ambition isn't worth anything or That pursuing strength is a waste. That humanity should just be "good". Worse, superman is never questioned for what he is selling as a narrative . As if people read books about weak people's conflicts. As if history books were written by the weak. Even superman with muscles made of hot air needs to be powerful to some degree(it might differ from person to person) for people to find enjoyment in his adventures . Otherwise, what's the point. Sure, many might find fluff, journalism and his office room drama entertaining.But then, what's the need for having a guy that's bullet proof. You can just read about a normal guy clark kent.No need to call the books superman books.Being comfortable with weak state of existence is just pure sloth.I don't care if superman's lifting quintillion tons is just a window dressing. I want a narrative that doesn't encourage sloth and complacency. I want a guy who has to sweat in anyway or form.As it stands, Superman's narrative is only gonna be useful for people who are already strong.

[PCN24454]

I like the way it was in the earlier days, Kryptonians were just most powerful than humans, they are aliens they don't need to have power source, just like Martian Manhunter don't have one.
It's what Robert Kirkman did in Invincible too, the viltrumites are just superpowered aliens, and so should be the kryptonians.

My only problem with this logic, is that Superman and other kryptonians should not be as powerful as they are and get killed by a planet explosion. Given Superman feats and all, if Earth exploded he was survive it. So, without the sun connection, maybe kryptonians should be toned down power wise. Or They can come up with something that explain why Clark is more powerful.

One reviewer argued that the reason why Kryptonians could get so powerful narratively was because they had weaknesses in a way similar to how vampires are portrayed.

It's likely one of the reasons why Wonder Woman can afford to be portrayed as weaker than Superman.

[Agent Z]

The amount of energy needed to be absorbed isn't equivalent to what superman releases . Superman would need to eat 100s of suns literally to pull off some of the ridiculous stunts he pulls off like travelling 1000 times faster than light. He doesn't have enough surface area and right shape to absorb light radiation of that magnitude, regardless. There is reason leaves, solar panels... Etc are usually flat .So realism argument doesn't hold weight. Superman would need to look like a giant leaf or satellite or solar panels or something. That too, he would need to be longer surface area than atleast the surface area of the planet.

The only realistic superman is the first one with ability run faster than locomotive, able to lift heavy weights, leap 1/8th mile, durability of tanking at best bursting shell.. Etc. Even that's pushing it. But, the bug explanation of siegel and shuster was pretty good all things considered.Realistically superman would never fly. At best he would be hoping around like an arthropod. His body structure and composition atleast should be internally different.Heck! Having an exoskeleton would be very much in the realm of possibility. Higher gravity can be used for explaining the structural durability of the body. If you want a realistic superman. That's the best you can do. He won't be lifting huge objects without going right through it. Not that, that superman can lift a plane.


Now on to the next powerlevel and mythic storytelling .As if, sun is requirement for blowing up a planet or being that powerful. That's a no brainer. Sun didn't make superman powerful. The explanation was put in to give the illusion of superman's ridiculous feats such as tanking nukes as realistic . But, it doesn't. It would never make sense because its not meant to be realistic. It's meant to be mythic like moses parting the sea, krishna lifting a mountain with a finger, jesus walking on water... Etc. Superman isn't powerful because of the sun explanation. It's because superman became powerful the sun explanation was put in so that people can have crutch for realism . The first thing one punch man does is make fun of readers who cling to surreal explanations because they want to force something to be not absurd and entirely realistic Or atleast keep the delusion of it.One punch man's power source is this.


People where expecting a grand explanation like gods, aliens, flying donkeys... Etc. But, they got this. Superman doesn't need the sun. He could lift a planet with hundred pushups. If you think that's absurd. Then you shouldn't be reading superman in the first place cause the guy wears a glass for disguise. A guy sneezing away galaxy is never gonna be realistic. It would always be absurd. Superman would always have the absurd in him. He can be strong enough to kill a godzilla and still not be able to kill a mosquito. Anyways, as if Goku needs the sun to destroy a planet. The phoenix force doesn't need it.The hulk powered by toba just smashed an entire multiverse that was supposed to exist after this one.As if, gamma radiation can do that. It's a freaking story. Make stuff up.

Now why do i hate the sun explanation. Well, the narrative makes it seem like human effort or ambition isn't worth anything or That pursuing strength is a waste. That humanity should just be "good". Worse, superman is never questioned for what he is selling as a narrative . As if people read books about weak people's conflicts. As if history books were written by the weak. Even superman with muscles made of hot air needs to be powerful to some degree(it might differ from person to person) for people to find enjoyment in his adventures . Otherwise, what's the point. Sure, many might find fluff, journalism and his office room drama entertaining.But then, what's the need for having a guy that's bullet proof. You can just read about a normal guy clark kent.No need to call the books superman books.Being comfortable with weak state of existence is just pure sloth.I don't care if superman's lifting quintillion tons is just a window dressing. I want a narrative that doesn't encourage sloth and complacency. I want a guy who has to sweat in anyway or form.As it stands, Superman's narrative is only gonna be useful for people who are already strong.

I think you might be reading way too much into this.

[SuperX]

The golden age /Linda danvers in blue and white/cir-el/YJ superboy levels of power should be the consistent and natural state for any kryptonian regardless of anything.then add the sun God powers if you want, don't care if everyone gets them, or just him, or if they get them instantly or over time, change thst, work within that,not just human when not charged up, thst sucks

[Laufeyson]

The amount of energy needed to be absorbed isn't equivalent to what superman releases . Superman would need to eat 100s of suns literally to pull off some of the ridiculous stunts he pulls off like travelling 1000 times faster than light. He doesn't have enough surface area and right shape to absorb light radiation of that magnitude, regardless. There is reason leaves, solar panels... Etc are usually flat .So realism argument doesn't hold weight. Superman would need to look like a giant leaf or satellite or solar panels or something. That too, he would need to be longer surface area than atleast the surface area of the planet.

The only realistic superman is the first one with ability run faster than locomotive, able to lift heavy weights, leap 1/8th mile, durability of tanking at best bursting shell.. Etc. Even that's pushing it. But, the bug explanation of siegel and shuster was pretty good all things considered.Realistically superman would never fly. At best he would be hoping around like an arthropod. His body structure and composition atleast should be internally different.Heck! Having an exoskeleton would be very much in the realm of possibility. Higher gravity can be used for explaining the structural durability of the body. If you want a realistic superman. That's the best you can do. He won't be lifting huge objects without going right through it. Not that, that superman can lift a plane.


Now on to the next powerlevel and mythic storytelling .As if, sun is requirement for blowing up a planet or being that powerful. That's a no brainer. Sun didn't make superman powerful. The explanation was put in to give the illusion of superman's ridiculous feats such as tanking nukes as realistic . But, it doesn't. It would never make sense because its not meant to be realistic. It's meant to be mythic like moses parting the sea, krishna lifting a mountain with a finger, jesus walking on water... Etc. Superman isn't powerful because of the sun explanation. It's because superman became powerful the sun explanation was put in so that people can have crutch for realism . The first thing one punch man does is make fun of readers who cling to surreal explanations because they want to force something to be not absurd and entirely realistic Or atleast keep the delusion of it.One punch man's power source is this.


People where expecting a grand explanation like gods, aliens, flying donkeys... Etc. But, they got this. Superman doesn't need the sun. He could lift a planet with hundred pushups. If you think that's absurd. Then you shouldn't be reading superman in the first place cause the guy wears a glass for disguise. A guy sneezing away galaxy is never gonna be realistic. It would always be absurd. Superman would always have the absurd in him. He can be strong enough to kill a godzilla and still not be able to kill a mosquito. Anyways, as if Goku needs the sun to destroy a planet. The phoenix force doesn't need it.The hulk powered by toba just smashed an entire multiverse that was supposed to exist after this one.As if, gamma radiation can do that. It's a freaking story. Make stuff up.

Now why do i hate the sun explanation. Well, the narrative makes it seem like human effort or ambition isn't worth anything or That pursuing strength is a waste. That humanity should just be "good". Worse, superman is never questioned for what he is selling as a narrative . As if people read books about weak people's conflicts. As if history books were written by the weak. Even superman with muscles made of hot air needs to be powerful to some degree(it might differ from person to person) for people to find enjoyment in his adventures . Otherwise, what's the point. Sure, many might find fluff, journalism and his office room drama entertaining.But then, what's the need for having a guy that's bullet proof. You can just read about a normal guy clark kent.No need to call the books superman books.Being comfortable with weak state of existence is just pure sloth.I don't care if superman's lifting quintillion tons is just a window dressing. I want a narrative that doesn't encourage sloth and complacency. I want a guy who has to sweat in anyway or form.As it stands, Superman's narrative is only gonna be useful for people who are already strong.

I think you are taking this a bit too serious right there.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think you are taking this a bit too serious right there.

It's only as serious as clark kent disguise . A working class guy being a sun god, jesus,knight... Etc who constantly gets more powerful and defeat all odds by sun bathing is counter productive. Don't you think?it just doesn't fit the character is all.Superman ain't inspirational. Especially, when you have guys that get backs broken every single time to help. I just don't find a guy that holds back like that particular in high regards.

[Jim Kelly]

I never read the Green Lantern story where Mongul destroyed Coast City. Is that where his downward slide began? It seems like he was disrespected after Crisis. Others take over Warworld, including the Brainiacs, and everyone owns Mongul. Seems screwy to me. As if they didn't want Mongul to be a top tier Superman villain.

[KC]

Straight up, I don't like the Triangle Era. I have tried it a few times but I really couldn't get into it. It honestly felt a bit too Marvel for me and don't get me wrong, I like Marvel but that isn't what I read DC for.

[Stanlos]

Straight up, I don't like the Triangle Era. I have tried it a few times but I really couldn't get into it. It honestly felt a bit too Marvel for me and don't get me wrong, I like Marvel but that isn't what I read DC for.

Given the loss of identity both DC and Marvel have suffered copying each other I have to ask what made the era too Marvel

[Vordan]

Straight up, I don't like the Triangle Era. I have tried it a few times but I really couldn't get into it. It honestly felt a bit too Marvel for me and don't get me wrong, I like Marvel but that isn't what I read DC for.

Lol well that was exactly what they were going for. 80-90s DC was all about trying to be more like Marvel. Wasn’t really until Morrison JLA and Vertigo that DC started to pivot away from that. The Triangle Era is really uneven, a natural effect of having multiple writers writing multiple books that feed into one another.

[KC]

Given the loss of identity both DC and Marvel have suffered copying each other I have to ask what made the era too Marvel

I think it is mostly in writing style and tone.

[KC]

Lol well that was exactly what they were going for. 80-90s DC was all about trying to be more like Marvel. Wasn’t really until Morrison JLA and Vertigo that DC started to pivot away from that. The Triangle Era is really uneven, a natural effect of having multiple writers writing multiple books that feed into one another.

Exactly. And honestly, the examples you gave (Morrison's JLA and Vertigo) shows just how good DC can be when they don't try to be Marvel.

[Ascended]

I never read the Green Lantern story where Mongul destroyed Coast City. Is that where his downward slide began? It seems like he was disrespected after Crisis. Others take over Warworld, including the Brainiacs, and everyone owns Mongul. Seems screwy to me. As if they didn't want Mongul to be a top tier Superman villain.

Far as I know, yeah that's about where Mongul's decline began, but I think a lot of it is more a matter of what was happening to other characters, rather than a concentrated effort to nerf Mongul himself. I don't think DC cared enough about Mongul for him to be a factor in any decisions at all. He just sort of got swept up in everyone else's stuff.

For one thing, we had the power drop between pre- and post-Crisis and that closed the power gap a lot, allowing heroes like Diana and Hal to hold their own against Mongul when they hadn't been able to before the reboot. Stuff like For the Man Who Has Everything and the beat down Mongul put on Diana wouldn't be allowed in post-Crisis, where she and Clark were so equal in power and capability it made little difference.

And then there's Darkseid, who became a more active player in the Super-verse during post-Crisis. When you've got Superman brawling with the Omega God himself, a fight with Mongul looks like some second-rate opening act. And it is; Mongul is just a poor man's Darkseid who was created largely because pre-Crisis DC treated Darkseid as a threat too big to be contained in a single rogues gallery. But in post-? Clark seemed to be fighting Darkseid every couple months.

And I think a lot of people look at Mongul in Johns' Green Lantern run and discount how truly scary the guy was; ultimately Mongul lost control of the Corps to Sinestro so Mongul seems "less" in our eyes, but if you go back and look at what Mongul actually did....he was pretty gods damn scary. But he ended up kneeling to another villain again, and you can only do that so much before you end up looking like a henchman with an inflated opinion of yourself.

[Ra-El]

Far as I know, yeah that's about where Mongul's decline began, but I think a lot of it is more a matter of what was happening to other characters, rather than a concentrated effort to nerf Mongul himself. I don't think DC cared enough about Mongul for him to be a factor in any decisions at all. He just sort of got swept up in everyone else's stuff.

For one thing, we had the power drop between pre- and post-Crisis and that closed the power gap a lot, allowing heroes like Diana and Hal to hold their own against Mongul when they hadn't been able to before the reboot. Stuff like For the Man Who Has Everything and the beat down Mongul put on Diana wouldn't be allowed in post-Crisis, where she and Clark were so equal in power and capability it made little difference.

And then there's Darkseid, who became a more active player in the Super-verse during post-Crisis. When you've got Superman brawling with the Omega God himself, a fight with Mongul looks like some second-rate opening act. And it is; Mongul is just a poor man's Darkseid who was created largely because pre-Crisis DC treated Darkseid as a threat too big to be contained in a single rogues gallery. But in post-? Clark seemed to be fighting Darkseid every couple months.

And I think a lot of people look at Mongul in Johns' Green Lantern run and discount how truly scary the guy was; ultimately Mongul lost control of the Corps to Sinestro so Mongul seems "less" in our eyes, but if you go back and look at what Mongul actually did....he was pretty gods damn scary. But he ended up kneeling to another villain again, and you can only do that so much before you end up looking like a henchman with an inflated opinion of yourself.

Mongul is almost the Superman of villains. Used to be on the top, but now his fame as a tough guy is only used to highlight how whatever character beat him is a badass.

[Sacred Knight]

Reign definitely began the decline. The moment we saw Hank Henshaw's backstory and that upon meeting Mongul, he one shotted him then made him kneel.