Controversial Superman Opinions

[PCN24454]

The why do people constantly bring up shared universe as reasoning for clark not doing anything that matters or has stakes.Anything risky.The best stories from superman is when there is three act structure.Rarely is his runs firecrackers and sales juggernauts.They need to rethink the way they sell superman.I say they need to invest on webcomic kinda deal with superman,that has a more newspaperstrip kinda deal.Superman is best when the pacing is crisp.Soap opera storytelling with exposition on "how hopeful he is" while the major focus of his actions is "Geeh!lois,why won't you go out on a date with me?" is pitiful way of handling the character.

So basically, you want Superman to be Dragon Ball Z?

[DochaDocha]

So basically, you want Superman to be Dragon Ball Z?

If he wants crisp pacing, he wants the OPPOSITE of Drag-On Ball Zzz...

[manwhohaseverything]

So basically, you want Superman to be Dragon Ball Z?

Dbz hasn't aged well for me.It doesn't fit superman kinda fast story telling.Superman is political,even as an allegorical tale.He is drenched in the society.Goku is about the individual.He is sun wukong like sage.He lives away from society.He just comes out to help sometimes.On top of that,it's dated in story telling.
More like an old western or samurai tale kinda like deal.Heck!even the old silent movies would be an inspiration like that of keaton,lloyd,..etc.With society being caputured with grace,respect..etc like miyazaki movies like mononoke.Some tone of osamu tezuka stories like astroboy and dororo tonely(think of iron giant).Inspiration would be the old pulp heroes like tarzan,zorro,hugo danner,john carter..etc.Sure enough,mine would action oriented.If i am really gonna draw inspiration from shonen battle manga,It would be series like demon slayer,one piece,hxh,fmab(full metal alchemist),...etc for the story.Although i must admit, the go to would be allmight and luffy for the character.

I am for,clark kent wearing the hat.It's badass.If these guys know how to present it.


dodging bullets is an awesome business.I want a bit of a mafia feel as well.My Superman will be an outlaw.Through and through the champion of the oppressed.I am gonna be going for the modernised version of superman's first costume and insignia.I would also draw inspiration from akira,hxh (yorknew),robocop..etc for the scifi and the metropolis in general.Think of samurai jack but with more.

[PCN24454]

If he wants crisp pacing, he wants the OPPOSITE of Drag-On Ball Zzz...

The show they wants seems to be 90% fight scenes, 9% gloating and 1% plot.

[manwhohaseverything]

The show they wants seems to be 90% fight scenes, 9% gloating and 1% plot.

You guys seem to watch mandalorian.If plot was 1 percent these wouldn't sell.Things like dororo or fmab shits on superman so hard,it's not even funny.There is genuine philosophical debates.Unlike the bullshit,i won't kill cause 'reasons' and'hope makes world go round'.Superman is action character.If you hate action,that's your mindset.If you look down on action,that's on you.which plagued superman for so long.You guys demand that.I don't.I am through with this nonsense.Sorry,i didn't detect the sarcasm.There is nothing wrong with being action oriented.Heck!superman can't even touch one piece.in terms of shere conflict and world building.
This is why i said superman should vacate action comics for other heroes.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The why do people constantly bring up shared universe as reasoning for clark not doing anything that matters or has stakes.Anything risky.The best stories from superman is when there is three act structure.Rarely is his runs firecrackers and sales juggernauts.They need to rethink the way they sell superman.I say they need to invest on webcomic kinda deal with superman,that has a more newspaperstrip kinda deal.Superman is best when the pacing is crisp.Soap opera storytelling with exposition on "how hopeful he is" while the major focus of his actions is "Geeh!lois,why won't you go out on a date with me?" is pitiful way of handling the character.

That's not a common criticism, the only person I know who do this you, and that's fine, everyone's free to have an opinion. But please don't couch it in terms of "everyone says." Which stories of Superman don't have a three act structure? That's normally how he's written in every media. Because comics is a tough business, and not very comic continuously generates sales like that year after year. Perhaps, but I'm skeptical your direction would generate that sort of buzz, we have an example of DC doing that with Snyder and its failed horribly while CW Superman was able to land his own spin-off by being in the Supergirl supporting cast. That's not "crisp" storytelling, that media drags stories down to a halt from the format for action/adventure, it's not a popular media and the storytelling options are far more limited to an ongoing, mini-series or OGN format. When has Superman comics done this? Lois is usually dating Clark off the bat, that's a cliche from the Golden Age. Superman is a character who brings hope, that's the point.

[manwhohaseverything]

That's not a common criticism, the only person I know who do this you, and that's fine, everyone's free to have an opinion.

i have to ask,sir or madam or other.Do you see me as closet snyder stan or something?Who cares about snyder?
Dude,go back three pages.And look at what @robbanker said.Superman can't do this or that cause "he is in a shared universe".
Snyder movies weren't crisp.The dude spent 20 to 30 minutes on "krypton blew up again".Lois is dating superman.Yet,most of the time it's drama,drama,drama...etc.I had read through shit like action comics #1004.which was basically "clois" drama about living apart for job reason.BLAH!Superman brings hope by writers monologing about it.That's not storytelling.That's propaganda.There is damn difference.I am gonna want something that goes for modernised siegel and shuster's superman in spirit.Cause it's their character.Not yours or mine.I don't care if it fails.All I want is a story that atleast tries to be good,entertaining and something i can be proud of as a superman fan. i am manga reader,i like old literary works in general. I don't care if the story caters to some stupid notions and image of superman built in society by the company.I only want adaptations of the original superman in a modern world.That's how i operate.

[PCN24454]

i have to ask,sir or madam or other.Do you see me as closet snyder stan or something?Who cares about snyder?
Dude,go back three pages.And look at what @robbanker said.Superman can't do this or that cause "he is in a shared universe".
Snyder movies weren't crisp.The dude spent 20 to 30 minutes on "krypton blew up again".Lois is dating superman.Yet,most of the time it's drama,drama,drama...etc.I had read through shit like action comics #1004.which was basically "clois" drama about living apart for job reason.BLAH!Superman brings hope by writers monologing about it.That's not storytelling.That's propaganda.There is damn difference.I am gonna go for modernised siegel and shuster's superman in spirit.Cause it's their character.Not yours or mine.I don't care if it fail.All I want is a story that atleast tries to be good,entertaining and something i can be proud of as a superman fan. i am manga reader,i like old literary works in general. I don't care if the story caters to some stupid notions and image of superman built in society by the company.I only want adapts the original superman in a modern world.

They didn't call you a Snyder stan. They were pointing out that your ideas weren't that different from Snyder's views on Superman.

[manwhohaseverything]

They didn't call you a Snyder stan. They were pointing out that your ideas weren't that different from Snyder's views on Superman.

I had no intention of going for snyder's superman.And i don't think so.But,if it is and that is what you get.Then what they are saying is snyder adapted the original or real superman.What you guys have been reading is not superman at all.You have only read or seen the corporate image of superman projected by the company.Cause superman is siegel and shuster's first.Authors and creators matter.Nobody has the right to say this is superman or that is superman.They don't own the character.His creators defined superman.Your or my notions are mere perspectives on the character. And writers are merely adapting superman whether it's byrne,donner,moore,morrison..etc.

The superheroes themselves – largely written and drawn by creators who have never stood up for their own rights against the companies that employ them, much less the rights of a Jack Kirby or Jerry Siegel or Joe Schuster – would seem to be largely employed as cowardice compensators, perhaps a bit like the handgun on the nightstand.

I have nothing against middle class people but it wasn’t meant to be a medium for middle aged hobbyists. It was meant to be a medium for people who haven’t got much money.

I don't want propaganda about hope.If people want to be the above. they can.A quote from alan moore.I am gonna include the people that read superman as well.The fans,not just authors that adapt the characters.As i said,i am reader.not a hobbyist.Superman really matters to me.By extension the creators do as well,in that regard.Superman is the champion of the great depression.If you don't want the creators created then don't adapt.It's plain and simple.Make your own different character.Don't say nonsense is superman.

[Robanker]

That's not a common criticism, the only person I know who do this you, and that's fine, everyone's free to have an opinion. But please don't couch it in terms of "everyone says." Which stories of Superman don't have a three act structure? That's normally how he's written in every media. Because comics is a tough business, and not very comic continuously generates sales like that year after year. Perhaps, but I'm skeptical your direction would generate that sort of buzz, we have an example of DC doing that with Snyder and its failed horribly while CW Superman was able to land his own spin-off by being in the Supergirl supporting cast. That's not "crisp" storytelling, that media drags stories down to a halt from the format for action/adventure, it's not a popular media and the storytelling options are far more limited to an ongoing, mini-series or OGN format. When has Superman comics done this? Lois is usually dating Clark off the bat, that's a cliche from the Golden Age. Superman is a character who brings hope, that's the point.

Hey, I actually do use Clark being part of a shared universe for a reason why he can't enact lasting global change-- because he doesn't get to control the flow of all narratives. For Clark to actually accomplish that, he'd have to clean up Gotham too, for example. The shared universe essentially creates pockets of influence for these characters, Clark included. You only get to see any of these characters make lasting changes in Elseworlds for that reason. It's the nature of the beast.

[Stanlos]

Dbz hasn't aged well for me.It doesn't fit superman kinda fast story telling.Superman is political,even as an allegorical tale.He is drenched in the society.Goku is about the individual.

I have to tell you that I am nothing short of baffled by the popularity of DBZ. I do NOT get it and I don't want that stuff ANYWHERE near the DCU. I don't want to diss or trash talk it so I will just no thanks. Like to the infinite power.

[Stanlos]

The show they wants seems to be 90% fight scenes, 9% gloating and 1% plot.

Don't forget to extend the runtime by twenty minutes for an endless 'UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! " FOR NO REASON.

Ick. Please no!

[manwhohaseverything]

I have to tell you that I am nothing short of baffled by the popularity of DBZ. I do NOT get it and I don't want that stuff ANYWHERE near the DCU. I don't want to miss it so I will just no thanks. Like to the infinite power.

I am not advocating for it either.Dbz sells cause.Guess what?goku is working class dude who inspires people to work and work and work to achieve goals.To push back boundaries in your field with sheer will and effort.Goku's whole tale is about immigrant slaves grappling with their past.There is real palpable colonisation narrative with frieza and planet vegeta.Did you know the british used to call people from indian subcontinent, dogs?"Dogs and Indians are not allowed.".I am not even going for the implications of the story with goku and black people. Frieza calls saiyans monkeys..Goku isn't a saint that sits above humanity and goes "hope harder.I am jesus 2.0.I am your great messiah.Follow me,i won't look bad infront of people".It's a hyperbole.But,it needs to be said.Superman was goku at one time.It's fine if you think superman is all that.But,don't think for one second Goku is less than him.condescension isn't appreciated.

[Agent Z]

I don't think so. Personally for me it's the opposite. I look at the old george Reeves show or even the fleisher shows and it's mostly just robots and gangsters... the 'superman' is better than any one else around... but its' just such a low bar that he doens't have to be THAT powerful. He doesn't need to lift a skyscraper when throwing a car is more than enough to do the job.

Having a shared universe where Superman is still by default 'the best' superhero means the stakes are a LOT higher. He's got to be able to outshine Batman, wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Lobo, Flash, etc. etc... Whether you like the 'competitiveness' of heroes or not.. and a lot of people don't, it still boosts the scale of his feats to MORE Mythic than if he was all by lonesome...

Captain Marvel though? I think he tends to get diminished more and more with Superman always having that #1 spot... so yeah, HIM I do think works better in his own world.

Superman was not created to outshine Batman, Wonder Woman or other heroes. It is not necessary for him to compete with them. If Captain Marvel is diminished by being in the same universe with Superman why is it acceptable for other superheroes to suffer the same?

[The World]

That's not a common criticism, the only person I know who do this you, and that's fine, everyone's free to have an opinion. But please don't couch it in terms of "everyone says." Which stories of Superman don't have a three act structure? That's normally how he's written in every media. Because comics is a tough business, and not very comic continuously generates sales like that year after year. Perhaps, but I'm skeptical your direction would generate that sort of buzz, we have an example of DC doing that with Snyder and its failed horribly while CW Superman was able to land his own spin-off by being in the Supergirl supporting cast. That's not "crisp" storytelling, that media drags stories down to a halt from the format for action/adventure, it's not a popular media and the storytelling options are far more limited to an ongoing, mini-series or OGN format. When has Superman comics done this? Lois is usually dating Clark off the bat, that's a cliche from the Golden Age. Superman is a character who brings hope, that's the point.

Christ no it isn't. He's an old pulpy sci-fi action character who fights things that he finds reprehensible. Yes that can inspire hope but that isn't the point behind his actions. A man of action can inspire hope, but a symbol of hope isn't necessarily a man of action and being a man of action is far more important to Superman's character than inspiring hope. This symbol of hope junk needs to come to an end.

As for CW "Superman" guy is playing second banana to a character who only exist because he was a success. That's an off the back failure regardless if it came packaged with a tv shows for taking a bunch of L's to get it. Lowering yourself to get a promotion really doesn't sound like Superman frankly.

Superman was not created to outshine Batman, Wonder Woman or other heroes. It is not necessary for him to compete with them. If Captain Marvel is diminished by being in the same universe with Superman why is it acceptable for other superheroes to suffer the same?

I don't really believe in Superman trying to outshine any character but if that character is going out of it's way to try and challenge Superman then the Superman writers should crack down. But honestly prior to COIE this stuff wasn't much of a thing since saving lives and improving the world was the primary function of a character that was getting called a superhero. Post-COIE the point of being a hero has become proving that you're powerful and getting others to recognize that with saving lives a secondary point. It why the writers have become so obsessed with proving whatever character they fanboy can take out some other character they care much less about, for example look at the interwarring among the Green Lanter fans or The Flash fans.

Frankly one of the reasons I think Superman needs to be allowed to get more involved and actually make some significant changes to the DCU is because the Post-COIE writers lowered the bar of what it means to be a hero far too much and now we've got individuals like Harley Quinn lecturing Batman. Superman holding himself to a higher standard should mean more than just not killing or being polite, it should also mean having a profound positive impact on the world he's operating in.