Controversial Superman Opinions

[Alpha]

Controversial and Unpopular Opionions?

Superboy should NEVER have existed. Clark shouldnt have gotten his powers fully until he was mature, i.e., ready to graduate Smallville High.
Most Silver Age trappings are garbage... except the Bottle City. The extended family of Kryptonians should have been limited to Kara Zor-El/Linda Lee, the Matrix etc.

Having his full powers before maturity doesn't mean he would become superboy. So do you accept him having sll of his powers by like 13 or 14?

[Alpha]

Am I racist for not wanting to see a Black Superman? I mean Calvin Ellis is okay I guess as long as they are not trying to rewrite Clark as Black or Bruce Wayne as a Black Batman as well. As long as there is a good story behind it but changing a character's race to black just because of recent terrible events in the news to me is not a good idea. I mean I don't want to see a white Blade or a White Black Lightening either. I do not consider myself racist but if this makes me appear so I am truly sorry.

Never equate turning Blade and Black Lightning white with turning a white super hero into a minority. It's world's apart. The point of turning them into an ethnic minority is to give more representation to those least represented, or whose representation is least empowering or transforming. Straight white men already have significant representation in literally every cultural area. It's not just about number but also impact. You can have a lot of representation without it connecting with sbecause they aren't characters intereseting enough.

As far as Superman being black, I honestly think he should look like a native american, either from Central America or Southern America (in other words, not a white mexican whose grandparents were European). Krypton has an interesting connection with the sun, or at least it should have, and Sun gods wee the primary gods for the Aztecs and the Mayans and it would be an interesting symbolic connection if Krypton reminded us of those cultures an people but in a far away planet, rather than just Europe in Space.

[Alpha]

Possibly a nickname for Batman Who Laughs. Personally, I hope we NEVER get a Superman version of BWL.

Ok thanks. Yeah I don't see what would make it interesting.

[Alpha]

I imagine RAO two different ways. If GOD is real then RAO is simply krypton's name for him. Otherwise GOD is a concept that was adopted independantly by krypton & much of earth. Then RAO is the name krypton gave the concept of the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator GOD. Maybe Kal-El is a deist. He believes that RAO/YAHWEH/JEHOVAH/GOD/LORD/ALLAH is real, but he sees all organized religions as flawed.

The thing is that Clark would only learn about Rao much later in life. I don't even think he learns about Krypton's religion in most versions until after he learns about literally everything else, like their clothes, architecture, technology.

[DochaDocha]

Am I racist for not wanting to see a Black Superman? I mean Calvin Ellis is okay I guess as long as they are not trying to rewrite Clark as Black or Bruce Wayne as a Black Batman as well. As long as there is a good story behind it but changing a character's race to black just because of recent terrible events in the news to me is not a good idea. I mean I don't want to see a white Blade or a White Black Lightening either. I do not consider myself racist but if this makes me appear so I am truly sorry.

No, and don't let anyone else convince you otherwise.

Edit: While it's true there's probably a difference between turning a white-looking character to look like another race, I absolutely am uncomfortable with assigning levels of OK/Not OK with race bending.

On the other hand, I think stories like Calvin Ellis and Hernan Guerra bring a lot to the table without any sort of hand wringing.

[Prime]

Superm movies going foward need to have a no Zod or Lex rule.

[Comics N' Toons]

Having his full powers before maturity doesn't mean he would become superboy. So do you accept him having sll of his powers by like 13 or 14?

I don't mind Clark having powers as a teen... as long as there's no Smallville TV show bullshit or Superboy in that particular narrative.

[PCN24454]

I like the idea of Meteor Freaks and getting powers from Kryptonite.

[Kentor]

Never equate turning Blade and Black Lightning white with turning a white super hero into a minority. It's world's apart. The point of turning them into an ethnic minority is to give more representation to those least represented, or whose representation is least empowering or transforming. Straight white men already have significant representation in literally every cultural area. It's not just about number but also impact. You can have a lot of representation without it connecting with sbecause they aren't characters intereseting enough.

As far as Superman being black, I honestly think he should look like a native american, either from Central America or Southern America (in other words, not a white mexican whose grandparents were European). Krypton has an interesting connection with the sun, or at least it should have, and Sun gods wee the primary gods for the Aztecs and the Mayans and it would be an interesting symbolic connection if Krypton reminded us of those cultures an people but in a far away planet, rather than just Europe in Space.

The answer to that would be to write a completely new character that starts out as a different ethnicity. I also don't like calling a white man or woman and a black man or woman a different race. We are all part of the human race regardless of the color of our skin. Just sayin.

[llozymandias]

The thing is that Clark would only learn about Rao much later in life. I don't even think he learns about Krypton's religion in most versions until after he learns about literally everything else, like their clothes, architecture, technology.

I said nothing about Kal's age when he learns things about krypton.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The answer to that would be to write a completely new character that starts out as a different ethnicity. I also don't like calling a white man or woman and a black man or woman a different race. We are all part of the human race regardless of the color of our skin. Just sayin.

If we're all part of the human race, and we are, why does Superman have to stay a white man? Making him not white would make the concept more contemporary, rather than continuing the trope that all important characters have to be white - Superman was white because even if Siegel and Shuster wanted to make him any other ethnicity nobody would publish it. The 30's weren't a time where having non-white characters be important where accepted by society. You could have Captain America punch Hitler, but you couldn't have black man being Captain America doing that same act in a comic book. It's 2020, not the 1930's.

[Stanlos]

Am I racist for not wanting to see a Black Superman? I mean Calvin Ellis is okay I guess as long as they are not trying to rewrite Clark as Black or Bruce Wayne as a Black Batman as well. As long as there is a good story behind it but changing a character's race to black just because of recent terrible events in the news to me is not a good idea. I mean I don't want to see a white Blade or a White Black Lightening either. I do not consider myself racist but if this makes me appear so I am truly sorry.

There was a Wonder Woman annual by John Byrne that opened my mind about such things. Heroes are ideas and unless expressly a part of their origin a melanin concentration in skin seems to matter little if any at all. Morrison's Action run, recommended on these boards, apprenticed the notion for me. So I don't think it matters. You can set him anywhere and he will still be Super.

[Steel Inquisitor]

cause he was.His childhood is shitty.What the heck are you even arguing about?i am getting seriously Pissed with this lex,lex nonesense.Hate to break it to you pal.Not everyone gets great childhood.Doesn't mean we are all gonna be monsters.Sure,we have demons.Everyone has them.I have seen kids and friends pull through from shit.You equating everyone of us and making us out to be lex luthor Is not tolerable.Moreover,what are you even saying? if alfred had did that,Bruce would be shitty person?Good luck with that.You don't need to be a therapist to take someone away from a toxic enviornment.Sure,you would need them to help,if you need it later on.Fine,i am lex luthor.I would prefer being lex luthor.Than jesus christ wannabe that has everything handed to him and still instead of trying to understand,gives platitudes and bullshit speeches.You say clark isn't a pawn.But,the stories dependence on them as integral part of the narrative say otherwise.Have you seen any other books or literary works where a protagonist literally owes his very state of being in particular place in time to his parents.That he needs them to solve anything and everything.Ofcourse,people need each other.But,people being dependent on another is different deal.Yeah! i am not a fan of that.Hate to break it to you.Superman would be too on the right to be centre left.He is vigilante that decided to piss off the system and authorities.As said,He is monkey d luffy of american comics.That's just my view of things.Also,i don't like dceu superman cause he is a stick.he barely exists.

A young kid being a mental wreck for the rest of his life because his parents are murdered in front of him has nothing to do with Bruce being raised in a toxic environment, or Alfred being unable to find the right therapists to "cure" him. That's an incredibly understandable story to people beaches it's not unrealistic, aside from becoming Batman part. His childhood wasn't shitty because Alfred was beating him with shovels, he had a shitty childhood because of the trauma he never got over when Joe Chill murdred his parents. That has nothing to do with being in a toxic environment, that's why I bought up the Dursley's they abused Harry none of Bruce's parents or Alfred did that to him. I'm arguing because you don't get what a toxic environment is. That's a straw man, Lex was bought up as an example of someone who couldn't overcome his traumas of being raised in an abusive household, something that is omitted from your argument. I never said everyone raised in that would be a Lex. Lex is a terrible person because he was unable to overcome his traumas being from an abusive household, the point of his character in many interpretation sis that he is squandering his potential by his own choice, he wasn't bad because he was abused by his parents. It's puzzling why you think Bruce or Clark did when they weren't abused by their parents. There is no "if" Alfred didn't do that to Bruce. Therapists are for helping propel overcome their traumas, there are services in the government which would do that and they didn't intervene with Bruce or Clark because they weren't being abused.

Except all Superman does is try to appeal to Lex's better nature, but since Lex is unreachable that falls on deaf ears. Lex's problem is that he refuses to let others help him be a good person, he's all about himself and many interpretations could be arguable sociopathic, others have implied psychological problems which he doesn't get help for - like on Smallville. Bruce gets everything handed to him, Clark is raised by farmers who are constantly in trouble financially and for years he has no answers to what he is, he's just like everyone else and he's able to be overcome his barriers to become a Pulitzer prize journalist - something that's really tough to accomplish for anyone. And constantly fighting people who try to kill him and his loved ones, to save the world. It's not like he bulldozers over every single threat as Superman. The fact Clark goes back to his parents principles for guidance don't make him a pawn, that's not what a pawn is. It's what makes him human and relatable, as well as a good role model to teach others that reaching out for guidance is ok for people to do rather than blindly doing whatever. The latter is what Lex does, he has no moral core, he's not grounded by mentors who tell him he's doing something stupid when he does something stupid. That goes for every villain in comic books, not simply Lex. Lex is just the go-to since he's the biggest high profile villain in Superman's rogues gallery everybody knows. Asking for guidance from parents is not being dependent, nobody's asking him to do that for everything. You have yet to provide an argument about Superman being on the right aside from because that's what you'd like. That's not even an argument, it's a statement without any backing. Except there are many interpretations of Superman who don't do that as a crime fighter, Superman is a concept with many interpretations not just the Golden Age. As expected, no explanation on Luffy being conservative, he just is. That's more an insult to Superman TAS then an actual description, what don't you like Superman in TAS? What about Superman in other media, like the Arrow-verse? Lois and Clark? Young Justice?

This isn't about you, all we're doing is discussing Superman.

[Alpha]

I said nothing about Kal's age when he learns things about krypton.

But the point is that once he learns he is an alien and realizes that his powers probably have to do with the fact that he comes from a much more scientifically advanced planet, he would probably realize that his powers are a result of that and not an act of god. He also never had any visions from God and it would be strange for God not to guide someone so powerful in that world, considering what he did with every prophet in the bible.
The idea of Rao wouldn't service thos becauss he would already be agnostic by the point he learned about Rao.

[Kentor]

If we're all part of the human race, and we are, why does Superman have to stay a white man? Making him not white would make the concept more contemporary, rather than continuing the trope that all important characters have to be white - Superman was white because even if Siegel and Shuster wanted to make him any other ethnicity nobody would publish it. The 30's weren't a time where having non-white characters be important where accepted by society. You could have Captain America punch Hitler, but you couldn't have black man being Captain America doing that same act in a comic book. It's 2020, not the 1930's.

Because you would be changing the basic concept of the character. I just don't like change. I find Calvin Ellis an interesting character but I don't believe in changing Clark's ethnicity.