Controversial Superman Opinions

[marhawkman]

In the "Public Enemies" arc, Loeb also had Superman be able to survive Batman's explosives and electrified fence despite having a Kryptonite bullet lodged in him. Loeb's interpretation of Kryptonite is that it doesn't make him completely powerless, and doesn't rapidly lead to death like the Pocket Dimension Kryptonian villains experienced.

Overall, I'd say that Superman's weakness to K has slightly gotten nerfed. There are still stories where a tiny piece of K makes Superman worthless, but that gets balanced by stories where it's a minor inconvenience. Compare that to the days when there was literally nothing that could stop Superman except Kryptonite and exposure made him wilt like a flower in the desert.

It's one of those things where at some point you're like wait... why doesn't he just die the first time?" A villain that wants to kill him exposing him to K would seem like it should be the last villain he fights, and... think they did that in some elseworlds.

[Jim Kelly]

Before 1949, other than the unpublished K-Metal story, Kryptonite wasn't a thing in the comic books (it was on the radio show). Before 1960, the red sun/yellow sun and Superman getting his powers via solar radiation wasn't a thing either. It's funny that the publishers are willing to throw out a lot of other stuff from the "bad old days" but these two things, that were introduced for a specific version of Superman who needed some weakness to keep his great power in check, remain in force.

Not that I'm against them, but just playing devil's advocate, they could easily be written out, leaving Superman the most powerful being in the galaxy. Kryptonite arrives on Earth too conveniently. I could buy that it's stuff that clung to the rocket ship and thus there's just that much of it in existence and no more. But those space rocks keeping landing on Earth, even though there are light years between Krypton and Earth--and rocks aren't light.

The whole red sun and yellow sun colour coding is cute--and made-to-order for a visual medium printed in four colours--but it's not based in any science. Our sun isn't yellow. There are red and yellow suns but this is just how hot or cold any sun happens to be during its lifetime. Does Superman really need to be powered by the sun? It's an easy explanation, but he was powered by gravity before that. It could just be some mystical property we don't yet understand like dark matter.

[The Frog Bros]

The best part about the character.
Superman eats alot of wierd things

That's a pretty great list. But has he ever eaten 50 eggs?

O5INROj.jpg

[I'm a Fish]

1: when superman was created he was the strongest, then they created ww and made it his equal, which means that the first to be damaged in terms of the treatment he received on his strength was superman, because he lost his title of the strongest . 2: the idea of ​​superman takes precedence over that of ww, because he is the first, unless you think that supergirl, powergirl and faora have to be the same as ww. 3: superman has also been made to fight deathsroke, batman without using kryptonite I draw blood from superman. 4: the day that the simple presence of magic weakens ww, that ww is seen as useless that only depends on its powers, that batman beat it 2 or 3 times a year, let me know.

They were also both separate in the beginning so WW and Sups could both be the strongest in their respective universes, until DC merged there worlds.

[Stanlos]

1: when superman was created he was the strongest, then they created ww and made it his equal, which means that the first to be damaged in terms of the treatment he received on his strength was superman, because he lost his title of the strongest . 2: the idea of ​​superman takes precedence over that of ww, because he is the first, unless you think that supergirl, powergirl and faora have to be the same as ww. 3: superman has also been made to fight deathsroke, batman without using kryptonite I draw blood from superman. 4: the day that the simple presence of magic weakens ww, that ww is seen as useless that only depends on its powers, that batman beat it 2 or 3 times a year, let me know.

NaVi, you need to visit a library and read the books about WoWo creation. Quite literally she was created to not be inferior to ANY male and to be "invincible yet human". She was created to wield "Dominant Force" and her full name was "Suprema, the Wonder Woman" denoting the concept of superiority at the core of the character's design. The whole point was to see femininity wed to dominant force. That is not an extrapolation. That is not a fan wank. That is not wishful thinking. That is a matter of historical fact documented across multiple sources on comic book history.

Her creator and his editor even had a conversation about the very attitude that you and others are displaying. It is highlighted in Trina Robbins' THE GREAT WOMEN SUPERHEROES as well as multiple publications by renowned comics historian Les Daniels.

Wonder Woman challenges conventional notions and disrupts rape culture. This is a thing that modern creators and audiences alike still struggle with. Having her be in a situation where she is physically not superior is a massive compromise in itself. Equal is the bare minimum.

If you do not believe my words visit Amazon and look up some of real world history books looking at the genre by Les Daniels or Trina Robbins. You won't have to read far as it is present at the beginning of chapters on her origin. She is the most complex of the original heroes.

[Jim Kelly]

It's debatable what level of powers the early Superman had and how many. By the time Wonder Woman appeared on the scene, he had mastered flying and could look through things, but he wasn't yet so powerful. In some ways Wonder Woman may have been more powerful. Although, to me the great thing about Wonder Woman is her training and the various devices she can use--the more power she has, the less necessary the training and the devices seem, so I think it was just as well that Marston didn't make her too god-like.

Superman's range of abilities increased because of competition. Competition from other publishers who hoped to get readers by making a greater super-hero--Captain Marvel and Stardust the Super Wizard and Amazing-Man. Competition from their sister company--All-American--that published Green Lantern and Wonder Woman, And competition from within Detective Comics, Inc., itself from the Spectre and Doctor Fate.

If Superman wanted to be the top super-hero he had to keep up with his competition.

[Stanlos]

It's debatable what level of powers the early Superman had and how many. By the time Wonder Woman appeared on the scene, he had mastered flying and could look through things, but he wasn't yet so powerful. In some ways Wonder Woman may have been more powerful. Although, to me the great thing about Wonder Woman is her training and the various devices she can use--the more power she has, the less necessary the training and the devices seem, so I think it was just as well that Marston didn't make her too god-like.

Superman's range of abilities increased because of competition. Competition from other publishers who hoped to get readers by making a greater super-hero--Captain Marvel and Stardust the Super Wizard and Amazing-Man. Competition from their sister company--All-American--that published Green Lantern and Wonder Woman, And competition from within Detective Comics, Inc., itself from the Spectre and Doctor Fate.

If Superman wanted to be the top super-hero he had to keep up with his competition.

But that is the thing -- it doesn't matter what period we are looking at. The character is designed to stand against male superiority, prudery, and one other item from the patent that is escaping me at the moment(that research project was years ago).

[Gaius]

But that is the thing -- it doesn't matter what period we are looking at. The character is designed to stand against male superiority, prudery, and one other item from the patent that is escaping me at the moment(that research project was years ago).

Prejudice, if I assume this is the image you're talking about.

[SiegePerilous02]

They were also both separate in the beginning so WW and Sups could both be the strongest in their respective universes, until DC merged there worlds.

It kind of goes against the intentions of either creators (Marston or Siegel and Shuster) to have them in the same universe and be anything less than the most powerful being around.

It's kind of moot though since neither character is with their creators, DC owns them both and decided where the power rankings are long ago. Though in recent years, they've underplayed WW considerably even from where she was at in the Silver Age (minus flight).

[Vordan]

What’s going on in here gu-

........

Uh yeah I think I’ll just be going

[Stanlos]

Prejudice, if I assume this is the image you're talking about.

Yes, that is the image that went along with Marston and I think it was Gaines article discussing the concept and how he honed it further between the patent application and what the final approved design was. It was really fascinating and was one of those times where a randomly assigned topic you totally hate and think is stupid turned out to be really interesting and eye opening.

And I got an A

[NaVi]

NaVi, you need to visit a library and read the books about WoWo creation. Quite literally she was created to not be inferior to ANY male and to be "invincible yet human". She was created to wield "Dominant Force" and her full name was "Suprema, the Wonder Woman" denoting the concept of superiority at the core of the character's design. The whole point was to see femininity wed to dominant force. That is not an extrapolation. That is not a fan wank. That is not wishful thinking. That is a matter of historical fact documented across multiple sources on comic book history.

Her creator and his editor even had a conversation about the very attitude that you and others are displaying. It is highlighted in Trina Robbins' THE GREAT WOMEN SUPERHEROES as well as multiple publications by renowned comics historian Les Daniels.

Wonder Woman challenges conventional notions and disrupts rape culture. This is a thing that modern creators and audiences alike still struggle with. Having her be in a situation where she is physically not superior is a massive compromise in itself. Equal is the bare minimum.

If you do not believe my words visit Amazon and look up some of real world history books looking at the genre by Les Daniels or Trina Robbins. You won't have to read far as it is present at the beginning of chapters on her origin. She is the most complex of the original heroes.

ww was created with the purpose of being equal to superman, but superman was created to be the greatest champion in the world, superman was created first, that's why his idea >>> the idea of ​​ww. supergirl was created to be equal to superman, but since ww was created before, ww >>> supergirl I don't see why it is okay for ww to be above supergirl when they were created for the same purpose, but that superman is above ww is wrong. Another thing is that ww fans defend the idea with which it was created, but do not accept the weaknesses with which they created it. To clarify, I'm not saying superman has to be better than ww in everything, just that when it comes to strength, superman> ww, in the same way as when it comes to ability, ww> superman.

[Stanlos]

ww was created with the purpose of being equal to superman, but superman was created to be the greatest champion in the world, superman was created first, that's why his idea >>> the idea of ​​ww. supergirl was created to be equal to superman, but since ww was created before, ww >>> supergirl I don't see why it is okay for ww to be above supergirl when they were created for the same purpose, but that superman is above ww is wrong. Another thing is that ww fans defend the idea with which it was created, but do not accept the weaknesses with which they created it. To clarify, I'm not saying superman has to be better than ww in everything, just that when it comes to strength, superman> ww, in the same way as when it comes to ability, ww> superman.

You are still posting without researching. I have provided you with easily obtainable references that would enlighten you. Check them out.

Or keep posting falsehoods and assumptions.

[SiegePerilous02]

You are still posting without researching. I have provided you with easily obtainable references that would enlighten you. Check them out.

Or keep posting falsehoods and assumptions.

Does the history and references take into account the history that happened after the initial inceptions of the characters?

Because it's not like Marston or Siegel/Shuster ever wanted or predicted their characters going on this long a shared universe that has accumulated as much complexities and baggage that it has. These were the ideas at the beginning, but we are well past all of that now for either character. For better or (often) worse

[Kuwagaton]

There are some similarities, but Diana is ultimately very different from Clark and Bruce. I mean those two characters have always been so similar in the way they're handled. I honestly wouldn't put her next to them although she checks so many boxes for a very important character in the pantheon. Like Supergirl can't take her place if only because one major aspect is not being a derivative character.

I put her moreso next to Flash and Green Lantern, and those three above Shazam, Aquaman, etc. That by no means speaks to the quality of the character as I'm a Katar Hol fan and he's completely irrelevant by comparison. I still think it comes off a little rude to post as a WW opinion so here it is, lol