Controversial Superman Opinions

[NaVi]

How so??? How is superman the most limited of the JL.

If you look at the powers of the JL, all the heroes, whether stronger or weaker, are very complete, but superman is the only one who has weaknesses, so within the JL he is the most limited, he is the only one they can defeat with a stone.

[Stanlos]

If you look at the powers of the JL, all the heroes, whether stronger or weaker, are very complete, but superman is the only one who has weaknesses, so within the JL he is the most limited, he is the only one they can defeat with a stone.

Sorry, but no. Conventional forces can't really harm Supes. Magic and Kryptonite are rare and the dynamics of the story provide the rules for the theatre of engagement. And with those in play Supes will likely be the odds on favorite to triumph. And if he is outside of earths atmosphere he has demonstrated that Kryptonite is far less effective there. People often poop on Byrne's Superman but under his pen Supes demonstrated time and again that neither magic nor K are insta-wins versus him.

Meanwhile his superstrength is literally boundless, his superspeed FTL, and his physical form is impenetrable. He is FAR from limited in any court of characters and he only two true peers and one maybe.

[NaVi]

Sorry, but no. Conventional forces can't really harm Supes. Magic and Kryptonite are rare and the dynamics of the story provide the rules for the theatre of engagement. And with those in play Supes will likely be the odds on favorite to triumph. And if he is outside of earths atmosphere he has demonstrated that Kryptonite is far less effective there. People often poop on Byrne's Superman but under his pen Supes demonstrated time and again that neither magic nor K are insta-wins versus him.

Meanwhile his superstrength is literally boundless, his superspeed FTL, and his physical form is impenetrable. He is FAR from limited in any court of characters and he only two true peers and one maybe.

A small stone of kryptonite has brought superman to his knees, the simple presence of magic has weakened superman, the red sun has taken away superman's powers almost instantaneously. half the universe has kryptonite, without forgetting that its effect can be created and enhanced. magic is so rare that 2 of the JL members have magic weapons. his strength is so limitless that ww lifted a rock that superman couldn't, ww >> superman. its invulnerability is not superior to that of ww or gl. superman excels at 2 things, 1 super-senses, 2 weaknesses.
ww with kryptonite vs superman, who wins?
flash with kryptonite vs superman, who wins?
gl creates kryptonite vs superman, who wins?

[Gaius]

the idea that superman is the most complete is false. ww have the same physical abilities (strength, speed, endurance) in addition to their own powers that compensate for heat vision and freezing breath, but she is also an expert in combat and has magical weapons. MM has the same powers as superman and a few extras. flash is fast, it can give and steal speed, perceive the future, vibrate its molecules to travel in time or other dimensions. Aguaman has strength, speed, endurance plus his powers of water. Cyborg strength, speed, endurance and all the tegnology of the earth. GL can create anything you can imagine. but best of all, none of them have weaknesses. Superman is not the most complete, he is the most limited (weakness) of the entire JL.

[Superfan90]

I said that Flash has to be faster than light because he is constantly doing stuff like that. Superman rarely does such a thing. This argument is ridiculous. The problems Superman has have nothing to do with how strong he is, because he will always be portrayed as the strongest one in the justice league. You can keep going but I'm not gonna bother responding because this is so dull. I hate arguing with "fans" that are so overtly insecure about a character's powers. You remind me of those guys that complain that Hulk is "too weak".

Sure, whatever you like.

[Superfan90]

*Sigh* Because you are taking a panel where he is clearly and obviously NOT moving faster than light and declaring he is because the hyperbole narration says he is. And, speaking of battle boards, yes, this kind of "no feat there to be seen" garbage comes up all the time. So just produce one feat in that era where he's actually moving faster than light. Y'know, before he goes back to working for it to outrun bullets and not sure he can make it. And it's not "because I say so". It's because there's not one feat in that era of his doing it.

There are dozens of scenes like this in golden age.

https://imgur.com/a/VyeHp
https://imgur.com/a/1pzZ3
https://imgur.com/a/GcLlF
https://imgur.com/a/nLUi2
https://imgur.com/a/gzQfF
https://imgur.com/a/5Sh09
https://imgur.com/a/nScQJ
https://imgur.com/a/kD2CL
https://imgur.com/a/kXGjN
https://imgur.com/a/DpWv5

Just from the top of my head.

[phantom1592]

I just reading a tpb of the DC Comics presents Superman Teamups.... and they had Superman and Supergirl vs. Mongul and Warworld apparently for the first time. Straight up said that in order to punch through Warworld and beat it's computer... They had to travel the Speed of Light away from it... and then turn around BEAT that speed to blast through it.

Then Supergirl was knocked out and kept going... and Superman had to beat THAT speed to try to catch up to her... and they were moving so fast they were punching through dimensions. Spectre had to put a stop to it before Superman saw heaven (Supergirl was fine, she was unconscious)

My controversial opinion is that this book is more fun than ANY Superman story I've read since CoIE. I'll take a Superman who can literally do ANYTHING that the story needs him to do with a confident smirk and wink at the audience than the dredge I've seen in the last 30 years.

[Gitagon]

If you look at the powers of the JL, all the heroes, whether stronger or weaker, are very complete, but superman is the only one who has weaknesses, so within the JL he is the most limited, he is the only one they can defeat with a stone.

He's not the only one with a weakness. Wonder Woman isn't even bulletproof and has been put on be verge of death by bullet shrapnel in Rebirth, shot clean through in her own comic, etc. Kryptonite is way rarer than bullets.

Martian Manhunter - most stupid weakness out there. Fire is literally everywhere.

[Gitagon]

A small stone of kryptonite has brought superman to his knees, the simple presence of magic has weakened superman, the red sun has taken away superman's powers almost instantaneously. half the universe has kryptonite, without forgetting that its effect can be created and enhanced. magic is so rare that 2 of the JL members have magic weapons. his strength is so limitless that ww lifted a rock that superman couldn't, ww >> superman. its invulnerability is not superior to that of ww or gl. superman excels at 2 things, 1 super-senses, 2 weaknesses.
ww with kryptonite vs superman, who wins?
flash with kryptonite vs superman, who wins?
gl creates kryptonite vs superman, who wins?

How can you say Wonder Woman > Superman in durability with a straight face when her weakness is far more common than his.

[Gitagon]

This is what I'm talking about. Other heavy hitters have weaknesses far more common than Superman. Any random goon can have a gun and any random human in DC can light a fire. Kryptonite on the other hand is more rare and only a few villains like Lex, Metallo and Cyborg Superman have access to it. Magic just affects him the same way as everyone else but even then he has shown great resistance to even reality warping magic like against Neron where everyone else including Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter got transmuted while Clark remained fine. So even his weakness to magic isn't a true weakness, just a way he can be hurt.

[NaVi]

How can you say Wonder Woman > Superman in durability with a straight face when her weakness is far more common than his.

a bullet cannot reach ww and if it does it can deflect it, the bullet only works because the writer wants it. ww with kryptonite vs superman with gun (don't forget that bullet moves at normal speed), who wins?

[NaVi]

1: bullets cannot hit ww, unless writer decides to forget ww speed, skill, and weapons (including armor and shield).
2: the mere presence of bullets does not bring ww to his knees, kryptonite to superman does.
3: if we look at the 80 years of the characters, there are 1000 times more examples of superman defeated by kryptonite than ww by a bullet.
4: weakness to ww bullets comes and goes, depends on the writer.
5: to say that superman is just as vulnerable to magic as the rest of the JL, is ridiculous, there are 100 times more examples of superman being defeated by magic than the rest of the JL combined, the simple presence of magic has weakened superman.
6: MM's weakness equals ww's, it comes and goes, it depends on the writer.
7: JL weaknesses: bullets and fire, superman weaknesses: kryptonite, red sun, magic, ultra sounds, telepathy (he has been controlled more times than the entire JL together), without forgetting that his powers are secondary effects, his power It is to absorb energy and when there is no energy it loses its powers.

[Powerboy]

There are dozens of scenes like this in golden age.

https://imgur.com/a/VyeHp
https://imgur.com/a/1pzZ3
https://imgur.com/a/GcLlF
https://imgur.com/a/nLUi2
https://imgur.com/a/gzQfF
https://imgur.com/a/5Sh09
https://imgur.com/a/nScQJ
https://imgur.com/a/kD2CL
https://imgur.com/a/kXGjN
https://imgur.com/a/DpWv5

Just from the top of my head.

Yes, I get that. Judging by the art, these are quite some time later than that first example. For one thing, he's clearly flying in many of these other examples and even traveling to the Moon in one of them.

But we were talking about the early issues. I've got several volumes of the early Superman stories in chronological order covering the first several years and none of those stories you invoked were in them.

In AC#5, he has not yet reached the point where he's been shown to outrun a bullet yet. That seems to be AC#8 and he has to work for it.

He is progressively shown to be more and more powerful. Many of his powers are introduced as if he always had them, which is mildly annoying since he would have used them earlier if he really had them. He reaches the point where he can leap to the edge of the atmosphere. Finally, he gets flight although he was already changing directions in mid-"leap" before he officially had flight.

So, with such inconsistency, you could argue that he was already capable of moving faster than light. Personally, I just don't buy it because, in the same story, it would be very convenient to be able to move that fast but he's mostly moving faster than a train and, three issues later, not sure he can move across a room fast enough to save Lois from a bullet.

[Rightoya]

According to many, because the best known power of Flash is speed, there is no problem with it being 100 times faster than the fastest hero that does not belong to the Flash family, 1000 times faster than the rest of the heroes. WW is 1000 times more skilled than Flash, the reason is because it has the same excuse as Flash, WW is known for its ability so it has to be the most skilled of all.

Wonder Woman is neither 1000 times more skilled than Flash, nor would that mean squad if she can't even perceive him.

But and Superman, he does not stand out in anything, neither strength, nor speed, nor ability, nothing, there is always someone better than him, because with Superman the same logic is not used, because he is not 100 or 1000 times stronger than him rest of the JL. the rest of the heroes always defend them but Superman, even in his own forum, is expected to be a second, surpassed by all.

That logic is not even in play.

Superman was created first, with strength and speed being his base powers. but ww, a character that was created years later, has to be just as strong, because force is one of its powers, flash character that was created years later has to be faster, because speed is one of its powers ( has more powers). The fun of this is not the fact of putting the idea with which ww and flash were created above superman, but the fact that is used as an excuse for not minimizing these characters, forgetting that ww and flash have no weaknesses, but superman yes, which means that with equal powers, superman ends up being less.

Does trash like this look like someone without weaknesses to you:




And since when can Wonder Woman or Flash sun dip as example, if we are already talking about ending up lesser than others? Flash got sometimes crazy with his speed and the speed force that much is true, but Wonder Woman is the one in this triple comparison who ends up lesser most of the time, not Superman.

[NaVi]

ww is damaged by a bullet once every 10 years and ww fans do not stop crying, superman is damaged 100 times by kryptonite every year, but nothing can be said. the sun is symbolic for superman, that's why you can see the feat of bathing in the sun, ww doesn't do it because it has nothing to do with the sun, not because it's weaker, unless you think luficer is weaker that superman, after all he does not bathe in the sun either. ww is at least physically equal to superman, an expert in combat, magic weapons, has a weakness that comes and goes, while superman is useless in combat and has 20 weaknesses, clearly ww is the one that loses. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that it's unfair that Superman has more weaknesses than the entire JL combined.