Controversial Superman Opinions

[Rightoya]

ww is damaged by a bullet once every 10 years and ww fans do not stop crying, superman is damaged 100 times by kryptonite every year, but nothing can be said.

Kryptonite is a rare space material, and bullets part of 1 of the most common weapons on earth, if you have a problem with too much use of kryptonite in Superman stories complain about that instead of using it as an excuse that Superman needs to make other superheroes of his level look inferior.

the sun is symbolic for superman, that's why you can see the feat of bathing in the sun, ww doesn't do it because it has nothing to do with the sun, not because it's weaker, unless you think luficer is weaker that superman, after all he does not bathe in the sun either.

The sun makes Superman literally more powerful, Lucifer Morningstar is 1 of the most powerful beings of the DC verse on a different level than even most cosmical beings and not a superhero, bathing in the sun can't make a being stronger that is outside of the universe or multiverse.

ww is at least physically equal to superman

Tell that to DC and WB, they seem to forget it most of the time.

an expert in combat, magic weapons,

has a weakness that comes and goes

while superman is useless in combat

and has 20 weaknesses

clearly ww is the one that loses.

Who constantly loses her sword, or can not effectively use it.

Like anyone else.

Since when?

In which series of DC has Superman constantly 20 weaknesses, and which of them are even common enough to matter?

You clearly don't read or watch much that involves Wonder Woman.

I don't know why it's so hard to accept that it's unfair that Superman has more weaknesses than the entire JL combined.

Because it is barely ever true, and others like Wonder Woman get constantly portrayed as inferior to Superman throughout multiple different medias, which makes your unfair claim so laughable.

[Johnny Thunders!]

The reason they give him the weaknesses argues my point. The weaknesses make him beatable. In order for the stories to work, and for those special weaknesses to matter, he has to be an impossibility machine. Superman can beat the Flash in a race, but that only works when the Flash is clearly faster. It’s impossible for anyone to beat the Flash, and that makes it part of Superman’s nature. I think Jerry Siegel was a true sci fi nerd. When he says speed of light, he means speed of light.

[NaVi]

Kryptonite is a rare space material, and bullets part of 1 of the most common weapon on earth, if you have a problem with to much use of kryptonite in Superman stories complain about that instead of using it as an excuse that Superman needs to make other superheroes of his level look inferior




The sun makes Superman literally more powerful, Lucifer Morningstar is 1 of the most powerful beings of the DC verse in a diffrent leven than even most cosmical beings and not a superhero, bathing in the sun can't make a being stronger that is outside of the universe or multiverse.




Tell that to DC and WB, they seem to forget it most of the time.



Who constantly loses her sword, or can not effectively use it.

Like anyone else.

Since when?

In which series of DC has Superman constantly 20 weaknesses, and which of them are even common enough to matter?

You clearly don't read or watch much that involves Wonder Woman.



Because it is barely ever true, and others like Wonder Woman get constantly portrayed as inferior to Superman throughout multiple different medias, which makes your unfair claim so laughable.

1: bullets are more common than kryptonite, but a bullet cannot hit a being that moves at the speed of light, bullets are a weakness for the writer, not a real weakness. In the new 52 the government spread kryptonite all over the planet, the simple act of breathing would have been deadly for superman (it was when it merged with doomsday). kryptonite is always a superman weakness, bullets are useless in ww 99 out of 100 comics where a bullet appears.
2: dc and warner do not forget the strength of ww, because in recent years superman and ww have fought many times and most of them won ww.
3: you're really trying to compare ww's ability to superman's.
4: now it turns out that weaknesses do not matter, kryptonite does not matter, magic does not matter, telepathy does not matter, ultrasounds do not matter, the red sun does not matter, the orange sun (physically and mentally weakens Superman) does not matter.
5: I do not ask that other heroes look inferior, it is you who ask that superman look inferior, superman came out first, he was the first fastest man in the world, he is the original sprinter, but according to you flash has to be a lot fast than superman.
6: Superman is presented as stronger in other media, that's why everyone began to cry even to say that it is machismo, if others can cry when Superman is stronger, because fans (some) cannot cry when it is more weak.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think Jerry Siegel was a true sci fi nerd. When he says speed of light, he means speed of light.

Right.what's batman's weakness?He beats everyone.How do you beat batman?

i am fine with the underdog action hero portrayal that's reminiscent of goldenage superman and goku.But Superman does need to beat flash in a race then.Because otherwise there won't be a payoff.They don't allow that anymore(except in up,up and away).They have clark standing there like an idiot,when flash charges of.He's effectively made into ash ketchum who never wins a pokemon league.And then after that clark doesn't have a competitve bone in him(That's the worst part).Also,the kind of interpretation dc wants to put forth also matters.Superman was also meant to be this unbeatable mr.perfect one punch man-esque figure in silverage and bronze age.The question wasn't whether clark could beat someone in a race or fistfight or wrestling match.He was omnipotent.The thrust was what he did and his morality from the likes of maggin(they turned this basic premise and expanded it.At zenith of this is became the messiah with donner movies)

No,he didn't.there is such a thing as context...Sheesh!there are other times jerry siegel's superman did crazy stuff like breaking time barrier.But,this wasn't it.You don't post ac#5 as an evidence.As said,superman had a goku-esque gradual scaling up of powerlevel(yes! siegel was a scifi fan and superman was built up taking inspirations from various other characters of his time).It's hyping up Superman's action is what the narrator did in that particular.(I miss the dude...)In action comics #8 clark races a bullet and beats it...If superman was capable of running as fast as light.This feat would mean nothing...

[Robanker]

This thread has taken a wild turn. I for one think Flash should absolutely lap Superman when it comes to speed, and that doesn’t bother me at all.

Ever since the Speed Force, it really stopped being a contest. I follow Byrne's philosophy: if one of their entire gimmicks is to be the fast guy, he can be faster.

I do like Clark being able to perceive The Flash at his top speeds, but even then it'd mostly be as some faded after-images. Just enough to know he's doing something but not enough to keep tabs on it.

And he'd never touch a Flash outside of charity.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't care if superman doesn't win.His whole attitude just sucks and is stark contrast from the guy that actively tried to push himself.Tried to challenge himself by taking on trains,bullets and whatnot.Clark ain't relatable or inspirational..Being beaten is relatable.Trying to do something about it is also relatable..Faking happiness or okness with getting beaten while you come of as a guy who clearly care(I mean look at the guy's expression when he gets beaten) is bad portrayal.If clark can't touch flash outside charity and if clark is ok with that then there shouldn't be a race at all.Cause clark doesn't care or isn't passionate about it.

[Robanker]

I don't care if superman doesn't win.His whole attitude just sucks and is stark contrast from the guy that actively tried to push himself.Tried to challenge himself by taking on trains,bullets and whatnot.Clark ain't relatable or inspirational..Being beaten is relatable.Trying to do something about it is also relatable..Faking happiness or okness with getting beaten while you come of as a guy who clearly care(I mean look at the guy's expression when he gets beaten) is bad portrayal.If clark can't touch flash outside charity and if clark is ok with that then there shouldn't be a race at all.Cause clark doesn't care or isn't passionate about it.

I disagree, it just depends on the metric Clark is judging himself by. If he uses the Flash's superior speed as a meter, he can judge his times against it to see if he's improving against himself. Is he gaining on The Flash? Is he getting slower? Clark doesn't need to win against Barry in a footrace to still have something to prove, even if it's to himself. True competitors still try and improve even when they're on top, and if Clark is racing anymore for more than charity, he absolutely has his heart in it. Even then, he'd give his all in a charity race too because the harder he tries, the more he'd likely feel it'd add to the spectacle and therefor profit for charity of choice.

I don't think he has to be a sore loser or anything, he can take his defeat in stride. There's a big gap between "GODDAMMIT WHY DO I SUCK" and "lol Flash you're just so much better than I am."

Clark's an adult with a level head on his shoulders.

[manwhohaseverything]

I disagree, it just depends on the metric Clark is judging himself by. If he uses the Flash's superior speed as a meter, he can judge his times against it to see if he's improving against himself. Is he gaining on The Flash? Is he getting slower? Clark doesn't need to win against Barry in a footrace to still have something to prove, even if it's to himself. True competitors still try and improve even when they're on top, and if Clark is racing anymore for more than charity, he absolutely has his heart in it. Even then, he'd give his all in a charity race too because the harder he tries, the more he'd likely feel it'd add to the spectacle and therefor profit for charity of choice.

I don't think he has to be a sore loser or anything, he can take his defeat in stride. There's a big gap between "GODDAMMIT WHY DO I SUCK" and "lol Flash you're just so much better than I am."

Clark's an adult with a level head on his shoulders.

All i said,was clark would still need to passionate about it.If clark ain't there shouldn't be a race.they could have clark be passionate about writing a book or something(although it's action comics?so how do you do that also matter..do an adventure story).Clark just doesn't feel like it(Passionate).He just challenges a flash looses and then comes the high-mighty attitude(I am above all this trivial competition and stuff cause "I savior and i example").I haven't superman say "damn! you beat me.One more round.... ".There is difference between "Sore loser" and genius of effort.clark's attitude should be that underdog.Clark's isn't.You might be limited by potential what not.(Mumen rider -a one punch man character will never be a powerful hero) .But,You need to try to get to limit of your potential and push it even an inch.If you feign being comfortable.then that's just not authentic.Atleast to me.I don't think people like losing.Especially,against themselves.Here clark is.By not allowing himself to challenge himself and being afraid of actually trying,then falling short.Heck! you know why one punch man doesn't feel it(high and mighty).Cause,he actively is seeking something to challenge himself.You know why superman used to race trains,bullets,..etc.Cause that's it.That's all that could ever challenge him.If that weren't the case.Clark would be thrilled..He would be thrilled to have a flash around...Cause he isn't trying to beat the train.He's having fun with the race..What i am getting at is..i am perfectly fine with this guy who sweats...

[Superfan90]

Yes, I get that. Judging by the art, these are quite some time later than that first example. For one thing, he's clearly flying in many of these other examples and even traveling to the Moon in one of them.

But we were talking about the early issues. I've got several volumes of the early Superman stories in chronological order covering the first several years and none of those stories you invoked were in them.

In AC#5, he has not yet reached the point where he's been shown to outrun a bullet yet. That seems to be AC#8 and he has to work for it.

He is progressively shown to be more and more powerful. Many of his powers are introduced as if he always had them, which is mildly annoying since he would have used them earlier if he really had them. He reaches the point where he can leap to the edge of the atmosphere. Finally, he gets flight although he was already changing directions in mid-"leap" before he officially had flight.

So, with such inconsistency, you could argue that he was already capable of moving faster than light. Personally, I just don't buy it because, in the same story, it would be very convenient to be able to move that fast but he's mostly moving faster than a train and, three issues later, not sure he can move across a room fast enough to save Lois from a bullet.

That's all part of golden age and before Jay moved at lightspeed or Barry was even an idea.

That was the point. Superman did these things before Flash did, that was the reason he is the archetype for speedsters.

[Superfan90]

Ever since the Speed Force, it really stopped being a contest. I follow Byrne's philosophy: if one of their entire gimmicks is to be the fast guy, he can be faster.

I do like Clark being able to perceive The Flash at his top speeds, but even then it'd mostly be as some faded after-images. Just enough to know he's doing something but not enough to keep tabs on it.

And he'd never touch a Flash outside of charity.

Waid himself never wrote Flash to be that fast that Superman couldn't touch him, speed force was just a plot device to explain the inconsistent nature of Flash's speed.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I disagree with the one signature power idea because it’s out of character for Superman and it doesn’t apply anywhere else. Is the Vision less intangible than Kitty Pryde? Is Detective Chimp a better Detective than Batman? Does that mean Hawkman is better at flight than any other flying Superhero?

[Superfan90]

I disagree with the one signature power idea because it’s out of character for Superman and it doesn’t apply anywhere else. Is the Vision less intangible than Kitty Pryde? Is Detective Chimp a better Detective than Batman? Does that mean Hawkman is better at flight than any other flying Superhero?

Funnily enough nobody argues that Jay Garrick has to be faster than Superman as he is the archetype if we consider that argument.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I don’t mind Superman losing, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Batman, the Flash, Green Lantern, Supergirl, The New Gods, all those heroes can and have had their day with Superman. That’s fair to me, but sometimes, in a room full of heroes, Superman gets to be Superman.

[Stanlos]

My controversial Superman opinion for today is that Superman's No Kill Policy is not unreasonable at all given the vastness of his power and resources. It seems more than reasonable given his upbringing as well.

[Stanlos]

I disagree with the one signature power idea because it’s out of character for Superman and it doesn’t apply anywhere else. Is the Vision less intangible than Kitty Pryde? Is Detective Chimp a better Detective than Batman? Does that mean Hawkman is better at flight than any other flying Superhero?

Exactly this.

Superman should be Superman. That doesn't diminish the specialists at all. In my mind, every part of his design should shine through so this ridiculous notion that speed force users eclipse him in speed is malarkey