Controversial Superman Opinions

[Robanker]

Agreed, mostly.

It is perfectly valid for Clark to not want to kill someone. I mean, who the hell actually *wants* to kill people? And it's fine for Clark to take great pains to avoid having to do it.

And a good chunk of Clark's rogues gallery can't really "die" anyway. We're talking about higher dimensional beings, the embodiments of cosmic forces, literal gods....you don't "kill" stuff like that. So a fair chunk of the villains, death isn't really an option, best Clark can do is throw them in the Zone, or the Source Wall, or whatever, and that's maybe as close to death as someone like Darkseid can get but it's not death as we mere mortals understand it.

But there *is* a line where it stops being reasonable and within character, and just becomes a big giant pile of stupid. We *are* talking about extinction level threats here, on anything from a global to a multiversal scale, and Clark drawing lines in the sand simply for the sake of his own conscience is wildly selfish and reckless. He has to at least be prepared for a worst case scenario, and willing to do what must be done for the sake of everyone under his protection.

And this is a rule that Clark breaks a surprising amount of the time anyway (not "often" but more than a lot of folks realize), despite his "rule" so I suppose when push comes to shove and Clark's back is up against the wall, he does make the difficult choice. But gods does he ever beat himself up for it afterwards.

Absolutely, but I think if you asked him he'd say he puts a hard line on it but with a heavy conscience admits he's had to cross it. By and large, I think killing is so much of a last resort Clark never actually considers it until he literally has no other choice. He's more or less evolved into the patron saint of second chances, so it really does have to be extinction event level for him to even get the notion else it kind of flies in the face of what he's about currently.

Hell, deep down he probably still wishes Lex would get it together and save the world. I don't think he believes it will happen, but it's probably held him back from killing Lex more times than not.

But it's not infinite speed under Waid, its infinite energy and just going above lightspeed would put the speedsters to risk losing themselves in the speed force. Its the latter writers who confused it with infinite speed.

When did I say it was Waid who did it? I said that with the creation of the Speed Force, the engine for Flash becoming infinitely faster than Clark was created. It gave him an infinite reservoir to draw on. Not too long after you had Millar writing Wally outrunning the metaphysical construct of death to the end of time to prove it will never catch him (or Linda) until he allows it, thus getting it to spare his wife. It was only a few years later. Much like how Tower of Babel was where everyone extrapolated Batgod and Watchmen/DKR where everyone learned to masturbate over dark storytelling.

[WonderLight789]

1: bullets are more common than kryptonite, but a bullet cannot hit a being that moves at the speed of light, bullets are a weakness for the writer, not a real weakness. In the new 52 the government spread kryptonite all over the planet, the simple act of breathing would have been deadly for superman (it was when it merged with doomsday). kryptonite is always a superman weakness, bullets are useless in ww 99 out of 100 comics where a bullet appears.
2: dc and warner do not forget the strength of ww, because in recent years superman and ww have fought many times and most of them won ww.
3: you're really trying to compare ww's ability to superman's.
4: now it turns out that weaknesses do not matter, kryptonite does not matter, magic does not matter, telepathy does not matter, ultrasounds do not matter, the red sun does not matter, the orange sun (physically and mentally weakens Superman) does not matter.
5: I do not ask that other heroes look inferior, it is you who ask that superman look inferior, superman came out first, he was the first fastest man in the world, he is the original sprinter, but according to you flash has to be a lot fast than superman.
6: Superman is presented as stronger in other media, that's why everyone began to cry even to say that it is machismo, if others can cry when Superman is stronger, because fans (some) cannot cry when it is more weak.

DC and WB does forget about WW's power all the time. She has never won a single battle against Superman in any canon continuity. Most of their battles have context just to help her to stay alive. Objectively speaking based on actual feats. WW hasn't been comparable to SM in anything for more than 40 decades at the very least. So i don't understand what you are talking about. Oh and SM doesn't have a weakness like getting killed by a stupid normal bullrt and being unable to react to a bullet like that jl issue with WW. So much for somebody having god like speed and strength.

[NaVi]

DC and WB does forget about WW's power all the time. She has never won a single battle against Superman in any canon continuity. Most of their battles have context just to help her to stay alive. Objectively speaking based on actual feats. WW hasn't been comparable to SM in anything for more than 40 decades at the very least. So i don't understand what you are talking about. Oh and SM doesn't have a weakness like getting killed by a stupid normal bullrt and being unable to react to a bullet like that jl issue with WW. So much for somebody having god like speed and strength.

The last canon fight (that I remember) was superman god of strength (a superman stronger than normal) vs ww, ww won in seconds, outside the canon the most famous fights of recent years, superman won 1, ww 3.

[WonderLight789]

The last canon fight (that I remember) was superman god of strength (a superman stronger than normal) vs ww, ww won in seconds, outside the canon the most famous fights of recent years, superman won 1, ww 3.

WW has not won any battle in canon against SM. And outside canon, he has won more often than not.

[I'm a Fish]

WW has not won any battle in canon against SM. And outside canon, he has won more often than not.

She won:

[phonogram12]

She won:

Hmmm.

The answer is oh so much more complicated than that, though.

[NaVi]

[
When you want to show how fast a hero is, that hero humiliates Superman. when you want to show how strong a hero is, that hero humiliates superman. When you want to show how powerful a villain is (the last 2 numbers of the JL are a perfect example), that villain humiliates Superman. when you want to show how incredible the mother of a heroine is, superman is humiliated, I hope that one day we will see ww defeated only for martha kent to arrive and save her.

[NaVi]

Hmmm.

The answer is oh so much more complicated than that, though.

superman god of strength arrives and sees ww about to kiss his ex-boyfriend (superman the cuckold of dc) he gets angry and attacks, to make a bigger humiliation, ww not only defeats him but also subdues him.

[Robanker]

She won:

There's also that time she took him down before killing Maxwell Lord.

[WonderLight789]

She won:

She did nothing to him. A feat for the lasso. Not her power.

[I'm a Fish]

She did nothing to him. A feat for the lasso. Not her power.

Holding the God of Strength in place is not a feat?

Regardless, she won.

[WonderLight789]

There's also that time she took him down before killing Maxwell Lord.

Right. That time where he one-shotted her. Only woke up thanks to the heat of re entry. Where he easily broke her hand and she was barely able to make it out alive by killing max lord. She would have been killed otherwise. Superman far outclasses WW. And as a superman fan i think you must know that. DC has never. And i mean never ever showed WW on par with him on anything. And her superior skills and gear are only relevant enough for her to stay alive until the battle ends for some reason. Before things get ugly with a WW brutally murdered by Clark. That is an image they want to avoid for obvious reason. Although then again, he has killed her brutally more than once so maybe they don't care much about it either. Superman is a top gun. WW is not one anymore. And in her best days(since Marston died) she never came close to operate at the same level as SM. You guys can talk about how much Superman suffer from jobbing at times. But when it comes to WW? He has never jobbed to him. It is the other way around. Or maybe not. Since is obvious she is so much weaker than him. I think watching a fight where she doesn't get overpowered by him would be a PIS moment. Since DC has done a great job to show that WW is a helpless and useless ant next to the mighty Superman.

[WonderLight789]

Holding the God of Strength in place is not a feat?

Regardless, she won.

Great feat for the Lasso. we know it is very powerful. Diana? well she is cute and has a lasso that is powerful.

[marhawkman]

most ridiculous feat for the lasso... the JL used it as a towing cable when they needed to drag the Earth out of orbit.

[NaVi]

ww wins for their weapons = they earn the weapons. batman wins for his technology = batman wins. yes, very logical. ww ripped out superman's spine and used it as a weapon, i don't remember superman doing something similar to ww, in another ww comic i ripped out superman's heart, once again i don't remember superman did something similar but superman is the one that always win. Superman is pure statement and feats out of combat, feats that are to show off, but when it comes to pushing, he is a nobody, or is it that throughout New 52 he demonstrated in combat the strength to lift the earth for days. without noticing the weight.