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  1. #31
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I agree. Also Pete can be African American. SMALLVILLE in terms of casting had some good ideas. Smallville can still be a Midwestern town while being diverse. I live in the boonies here in VA in a rural area much like Smallville and it's becoming a fairly diverse community.

    I also wouldn't mind if Lois was Asian,or afro American or even latina in future retellings.
    Yeah Lois as Asian American is something that I've always been down for. In fact I just straight up assumed that she was when I was kid watching the animated show. I don't mind Pete being white, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I was surprised to learn that he was originally white. Smallville was my first into to the character.

    And if we're going with the idea of making his Midwestern town somewhat more diverse, then I still feel that it should idealized. The idea of Smallville is in it's name, I feel. It's a town that's not a great reflection of the world. Clark CAN'T stay there and this is part of the reason. The city and the world should leave him a bit flummoxed. Him leaving that town to really understand his world outside of just the news shows that his parents check out should be a big deal. I always liked how Morrison insisted that Clark's awe and awkwardness in the city weren't acts at all. I love that along with the Secret Identity idea that him becoming a writer is more because it's a personal passion of his, and not because it can help people (though I'm sure he sees that as a plus).

  2. #32
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    Even though I don't like... really all of the changes from New52 Superman (need to come up with a better name than Nuperman), the armor suit, the solar flare, the relationship with wonder woman, the whole motorcycle phase, I still respect what they did with him, because they actually bothered to take risks with the character. Unlike Green Lantern and Batman, they actually took advantage of the reboot and told stories that you couldn't have told without the reboot. Really what brought him down was the damn crossovers, which could have just been solved by taking it easy on the events.
    I think it would be great if N52 Lex Luthor doesn't go bad again, and actually ends up following in the footsteps of N52 Lois and Clark and dies heroically and Mr El's Lex from post-crisis eventually comes back. It would be a nice way to put a bow on the new 52 era and give a satisfying and less predictable end to Lex's arc. It would be interesting to see how Supes would react to seeing his nemesis sacrifice himself.
    I know its a hot button here but "Clark" being the real guy makes more sense to me, I mean he was "Clark" before he was Superman.
    I changed my mind, I'm actually warming up to Jon. He's a likable addition and its nice seeing Supes as dad. I think the only reason I didn't like the idea in the first place was Superman Returns.
    I second that Superman should have a beard. Beards makes everything better. Give Wonder Woman a beard next.
    Superman should spend some time in space. Just exploring and offering help wherever he can.
    I actually largely agree. As a long time fan and reader,one of my annoyances with the reboot is that Batman and Green Lantern,while they did get minor retcons here and there ( which were easy to ignore if you chose to), they largely kept their collective history and narrative while once again Superman lost his. If the ENTIRE DCU had gotten the same treatment as Superman,i think many of us who were rubbed the wrong way by all the sudden changes would have been more open to seeing this new stuff explored because it would have actually been a new DCU were no one was safe from change.but they didn't do that and thus it always felt wrong in a way that's hard to put into words.

    Ditto on Lex. I'm still holding out hope that Mr Oz isnt Ozmandys,but Post Crisis Lex who cooked all this up as a long game to torment and destroy his nemesis. I mean Lex was off the chessboard the same as Supes and Lois at the time of the reboot.That would mean New 52 Lex may also be a construct or time echo or whatever.New 52 Supes and Lois end up being. If that's the case,then give this Lex an uncoventional ending. Have him die as a hero,inspired by both Nuperman and Superdad whilst maybe facing down Post Crisis Lex . Perhaps at the end of all this when history rights itself,Lois, Superman and the newly returned Lex are the only ones to remember what happened and sort of renews the rivalry between Superdad and his Lex ,with Superdad wanting to bring Post Crisis Lex to Justice for the shenanigans he pulled on everyone,including Nuperman and Nu Lois,but somewhat conflicted as Nu Lex proved to him that there is still a possibility of redemption for Lex and regretting that he didn't trust Nu Lex more. Another wrinkle to their "war".
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Superman's supporting has been pretty weak. We need to expand outside of the Planet. Lois should be asian in the next reboot. Super bro had the potential to be the best incarnation of Superman is DC weren't run by morons. I like the WW and Superman ship. For it to be super sons, they should both be Clark's kids. One from Diana and one from Lois, but DC will never give WW a kid with Supes.

  4. #34
    Mighty Member Mr. Mastermind's Avatar
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    Superman was meant by his creators to reflect the immigrant experience so if you want to truly modernise that, have a new version of Superman not be white. It'll never happen but Superman raised by a Mexican or Arabic family of immigrants would fit with Siegel and Shuster's original intentions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    For it to be super sons, they should both be Clark's kids. One from Diana and one from Lois, but DC will never give WW a kid with Supes.
    Supersons refers not just to Superman's son but also to the idea of the sons of superheroes. So having it be Jon and Damian fits well and makes it a nice World's Finest Jr book. Given the complicated nature of Superdad I'd rather not have a SMWW son from the future or whatever.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mastermind View Post
    Superman was meant by his creators to reflect the immigrant experience so if you want to truly modernise that, have a new version of Superman not be white. It'll never happen but Superman raised by a Mexican or Arabic family of immigrants would fit with Siegel and Shuster's original intentions.
    Supersons refers not just to Superman's son but also to the idea of the sons of superheroes. So having it be Jon and Damian fits well and makes it a nice World's Finest Jr book. Given the complicated nature of Superdad I'd rather not have a SMWW son from the future or whatever.
    That was just me. I kinda would like an Arabic Superman. There is a web comic with a Pakistani Superman.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member manduck37's Avatar
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    I watch Gotham and their version of Vicky Vale is an Asian woman. When I saw her on the show and saw the way the actress portrays her, I though that she would be an awesome Lois Lane.

    As for my controversial Superman opinions.

    -Superman is at his best when he's really overpowered. I'm talking major super-genius who can juggle planets or hold black holes in his hands. It ensures that the story doesn't degrade down to Superman trying to punch harder than the bad guy to solve the problem. I'd probably have his power levels to the point where very few could challenge him physically, like Darkseid or Doomsday. It would basically be laughable to challenge him on a physical level. Let his brains and cleverness solve the problem, even in ways that he'd usually avoid violence just to protect the villain who opposes him.

    -I like Clark as a reporter. Getting access to where the action is doesn't really factor into his career choice anymore. We live in the digital age of the internet. Though being a reporter let's him tackle social justice issues from an "insider" perspective and bring attention to him. Clark as a reporter can help in ways Superman can't. BvS had a really good line where Clark tells Perry that when they write a story, they are choosing what or who is important. That kind of stuck with me. So I don't think Clark's job needs to be updated in any way really. Many people seem to feel that him being a reporter doesn't make much sense anymore. To me, it makes perfect sense. The focus was just changed a bit.

  7. #37
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    - I think Superman's intelligence having come from his life is way more interesting and unique. That is to say, what he's learned (physics, mechanics, biology, and journalism on the farm and at Met U) vs the randomness of juggling test tubes and using nonsensical science terms to explain why spinning around something really fast does what he says it does. Not that that stuff can't be cool, but the idea of the genius Superman is partly from just ripping off Doc Savage particularly and part of the fad where every hero of the atomic age was a polymath, explicable or not. Almost every Superman knock off is like that, too. Aside from showing a more honest competence, where a writer can pull off a scene without just stuffing the words like "omni" and "chronal" and "hyper" in half the sentences so as to write something beyond their understanding, it works well as a counter argument in and out of story because people do in fact believe that growing up on a farm somehow implies a lack of intelligence. Also, it gives more leg room for supporting characters who don't have as much to offer outside of their intelligence, like Bruce, Emil, John Henry, and Shay.

    - Byrne's Krypton was easily the best as it was given a very beefy story and a markedly different culture. There have been better writers but I just don't find much interesting about Jor-el being Kal-el with a headband, for example.

    - Bronze Age Krypto, Beppo, and Mxy are as good as most of the other DC characters running around and all deserve a continuing role in the mythos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post

    I think that one of the reasons why Batman has surpassed Superman both in popularity and as a character (fu*k that hurts to say!) is that Bruce has been continually built up over the years. He hasn't suffered from the reboots like Clark has, and those reductions in the Super-mythos have caused the property and Superman himself to be stunted in their development. If Clark had been allowed to evolve along his natural path instead of being torn off on tangent after tangent, we'd be seeing the kind of nuance and depth in the comics that posters here like Superlad, Dispenser of Truth, and others talk about.
    Along the lines of Superman vs Batman, my opinion is that the Superman comics couldn't do anything to keep Batman away from the throne because the Batman comics did nothing to bring Batman to the throne. The Collins and Grant comics were a weak follow-up to Miller kicking down the doors, but being a decade behind Superman, with the additional power of hindsight, was a huge benefit to his presence elsewhere. Batman '66 was crazier and more iconic than Adventures, the four Batman films left the four Superman films in the dust if we're talking effort and investment, and the Ruby Spears cartoon doesn't even begin to touch BTAS. The marketing was a force of nature due in no small part to ripping off GI Joe at just the right time in the history of the young boy demographic and Superman just couldn't keep up, even when they tried to give him a car and stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post

    1)I think his name is Clark Joseph Kent, and I think that's what who he thinks of himself. I think "Kal-El" is a sign of remembrance, respect, and love for his lost culture at best. In someways it's also the first word in the first sentence to an entire "what if" story that Clark will never get to write. I think Clark had acclimate himself to the idea of being a Kryptonian. I don't agree with the idea that he's somehow "lost his flavor" or become "Marvel-ized because he doesn't he's not working under the Elliot S Maggin/Mark Millar idea. I thank that severely undervalues the inherent first generation immigrant (wasn't really born here but he has next to no memories of his old planet) idea. Whenever some native speaker like Zod or Kara get on Clark for how awkward his Kryptonian sounds, I applaud the writer who thinks of that scene. That is SUCH a legit aspect to being "of two world." I'm first generation born in America, but due to the fact my motherland culture was still very present in my life, I'm bilingual. But even so I make a point to respond in as little of my mother langue as I can because my accent for it is horrible.
    Right on, I think it speaks to experience for so many of us. My dad's family moved here when he was 20, and I spent my whole life around them. But it sounds like we're speaking two different languages even when we speak the same language. Post crisis Cap Atom, Hawkworld Katar Hol, and Vril Dox II are my other guys and they're respectively the cultural American, the adult immigrant, and the foreigner.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    1. I love the classic costume, but don't miss the trunks if they're gone. The DCEU costume (with less muted colors) is the best non-classic suit he's ever had.

    2. The New 52 costume was cold diarrhea on a paper plate.

    3. He should be the most powerful superhero and the most brilliant in the areas of science. If a writer can't work with that and make the rest of the League relevant, they have no business writing JLA and should leave it to the likes of Morrison. Who cares about Michael Holt, he should be on Earth-2 anyway.

    4. I don't care about the JSA legacy that was only invented post-Crisis. Superman should be the first superhero both in universe and out of universe, and Earth-2 to should be utilized. The hints of the JSA coming back to the main Earth just annoys me.

    5. Flaws aside (and there are quite a few), I find Snyder's Superman more likeable than the Donner version because he didn't wipe his girlfriend's mind with a roofie kiss without her consent. I would also be willing to let that slide if fanboys weren't so adamant in comparing the two.

    6. The marriage aside, there's not a lot to love about the post-Crisis era. Even that doesn't need to be set in stone, as long as it's acknowledged that Lois will always eventually be the endgame.

    7. Superman fanboys make too big a deal about Pa Kent in MoS. As messy as it was, it speaks volumes that quite a few fanboys act like it's a bigger sacrilege than Hippolyta looking the other way while the Amazons chuck babies off cliffs.

    8. Mad scientist Lex who prays to Einstein and has a niece nicknamed Nasty is a much better character than boring ass post-Crisis businessman Lex. Veronica Cale fills that niche better.

    9. Superman's world is rich enough that he doesn't need to have the Fourth World lore attached to it.

    10. All-Star Superman should be the Holy Bible of the Superman office and DC needs to shape the main comic continuity to reflect it as best as possible ASAP.

  9. #39
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Which brings me to what would probably be the only actually controversial thought I do have: All-Star just wasn't that great. Too much schmaltz. Very well plotted, but I don't really like that warm, puffy smiling on the clouds stuff. I like Action better because Morrison scraped off a lot of that.

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Clark's iris', and all Kryptonian's, should have a subtle glow matching their eye color. Clark's glasses block this effect.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Having plenty of other Kryptonians around is fine - there's still plenty to distinguish him - but classic Kandor, a whole living Kryptonian city he can visit as he pleases, is too much. Kandor should still exist, a living city in a bottle is too cool to ditch and it's a powerful memento, but it needs to be changed.

    Supergirl's modern origin always made total sense to me. If my brother, The Smartest Man On Krypton, confided in me that it was gonna blow, I'd wanna ship my kid off to Ee-arf too. But because I'm not The Smartest Man On Krypton, the rocket my wife and I made would probably take awhile longer to get there.

    Very little with Superman conceptually is actually fundamentally in need of change (though still far from nothing), it's just that what is left hanging - the villains especially - is important, and even worse most of the people working with him aren't good or don't get it or both.
    You can follow me on Twitter or Tumblr, if more of my opinions sounds like something you'd like.

  12. #42
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mastermind View Post
    Superman was meant by his creators to reflect the immigrant experience so if you want to truly modernise that, have a new version of Superman not be white. It'll never happen but Superman raised by a Mexican or Arabic family of immigrants would fit with Siegel and Shuster's original intentions.
    I'm just gonna put it out there: I'm not white, and I'm 100% cool with Superman staying white. My mom's a straight up immigrant, and I live the whole "two worlds" thing to a tee, but, again, I'm totally fine with Superman staying white. I don't need to see Superman as a person of color to strongly identify with him and his immigrant struggle.

    Changing his race to another one of the races that we have on Earth would only serve to add a very specific race's issues rather than speaking to the idea of what Clark's ACTUAL second culture is, Kryptonian. If Superman gets turned into whatever other race, that doesn't at all mean he's part of that race in a cultural way. But culture and society are the actual points of the immigration idea in his myth. Not all immigrants are people of color, and not all people of color are immigrants. Changing his race would end up only being arbitrary because Krypton is ultimately where his second culture comes from, and not from any place on Earth. I get where people are coming from with this idea, but it actually ends up being more inherently offensive than helpful, in my honest opinion. Not at all saying that you've offended me or something like that. Just making a point.

  13. #43
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    The classic STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION, "The Inner Light" is essentially my idea for how the bottle city of Kandor should exist. However, I want to insist that I had this idea for Kandor long before "The Inner Light" first aired. When I saw that story, I was kind of bummed out--they stole my idea.

    THE SANDMAN: "Ramadan" also strikes on this idea. But I think Neil Gaiman was obviously riffing on the Weisinger Era Superman for several aspects of the Endless.

  14. #44
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Lol this is like round 5 or something. Yeah I think Byrne ultimately did wrong, BUT I never thought it was because of his "Superman is what I do, but Clark is who am" line. I don't think that's inherently wrong at all. Where Byrne shoots himself and Superman in the foot is the idea of Superman largely rejecting the very idea of his second culture. I don't mind Clark being apprehensive of his Kryptonian heritage when he finally discovers it.

    American Alien is quite possibly the most brilliant and evocative title that I've seen given to a Superman product. It's the perfect encapsulation of the character that draws from all the way back to his first appearance. I hope people use this title from time to time when addressing Clark (as seen in Trinity), and maybe even as a title for a movie or something because it's gold.
    Is it round 5? lol

    What I find so interesting about you and I hitting this debate is that we arrive at the same destination but we leave from opposite ends.

    And I agree that "Clark is who I am" isnt a problem in and of itself, the problem is that Byrne forgot to add "And Superman is who I am too." Both sides are equally real, yet only shed light on a part of the whole. You need both. Who "Superman" is, is far more complex than being a farmboy with powers, or an alien sun god. He's equal parts of both, and I think when you forget that and play too heavily on either side you miss the point.

    And Landis, well, ya'll know how I feel about that. Amazing story, easily the best adaptation of Clark Kent ever put to print, but I think he missed the other half of who Superman is too. However, he doesnt explicitly say that the construct that encapsulates "Superman" is a complete act, so I can pretend that while Landis' Clark is growing and learning, his "other half" is doing the same thing "off panel."
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  15. #45
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Why are people so offended by the idea of Superman as a vegetarian? They guy gets fueled by the sun! Technically he doesn't need to eat anything!
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

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