Controversial Superman Opinions

[Stanlos]

A big part of my dislike for the SM/WW pairing is not just because it's dull but because I rarely like the Wonder Woman character and hate how she got forced into the Superman books. People now complain about Jon being forced but he's Superman's son, Wonder Woman is this random other character who has her own solo. If I was really interested in her, I'd read that thanks (and I'm open to reading it when it has a good writer on it). Why did we have to deal with her being in almost every Superman book?

The relationship seems very obvious but that could be made up for if Wonder Woman worked as a character. But she doesn't under most writers. The feminist origins are by far the most interesting part of the character, but almost every modern appearance (and all of them in the Superman books) just has her as a standard male fantasy (that bikini costume doesn't help) coupled with a shit rogues gallery and dull supporting cast.

When you say that, do you refer to their threat level or something else? I always find that peculiar given beings like Ares, Circe and the Shattered God number among her Rogues.

[Vanguard-01]

Dagnabbit.

When did this get aired? I've seen the episodes through to Under a Red Sun, but if this is episode 12 then I'm quite behind.

Meh

(I even checked imdb before asking [insert 'lol' smiley that we still don't have on these boards...])

I'm not sure when exactly it aired, I've only found these clips of the episode on YouTube. There are more on the SM/WW Appreciation Thread. Looks like it's a pretty hilarious episode.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Damn it. I guess that asking for a thread summary is too much to ask, right? (I don't even remember if I had already posted anything on this thread)

Well, as for my "controversial" opinions, here I go:

-N52 was cool. Poor writing screwed it.
-I LOVE the SMWW relationship. To death.
-Superman is AN ALIEN. He's not a "human with powers"/ metahuman. ALIEN, GODDAMMIT. Therefore:
-Super-intelligence is in. I like the idea that someone else posted that he's aware from babyhood.
-He has eidetic memory.
-He's IMMORTAL.
-Also like the idea that he fluently speaks and writes EVERY SINGLE human language and dialect.
-I'd take that a step further, with Kal also speaking and writing other alien languages (Kryptonian obviously included).
-He's *at least* 7 feet tall, and weighs far more than a human his height and complexion (a freaking bodybuilder's). That's Kryptonian genetics for you, fellas.
-Because of that, he must use his power of flight frequently (even if slightly, just so his weight appears to be in the "normal" range).
-In line with Sacred Knight (kinda), his eyes are a glowing, neon-like blue.
-He has two hearts and his blood is a thick, golden substance. Yup, a god alright.
-I like MAN OF STEEL's Kryptonian language and architecture more than the comic books'/TV/old films ones.
-I've always liked the religious undertones.
-Kryptonians were the most advanced - and oldest, along with the guardians - race in the universe.
-He didn't really die after his battle with Doomsday.
-I LOVE For Tomorrow.
-I (so far) HATE Rebirth.
-Kal-El is his true self.
-He's the ONLY Kryptonian left (aside from Zod and Faora, who should make counted appearances). Supergirl should not exist (granted, I like the TV show. Apparently contradictory, but I don't think it really is).
-EDIT: Superfan's post reminded me: Superman is the strongest one there is. If Hulk can punch planets into dust, Superman can destroy galaxies. Point being that Superman should be the strongest in ANY universe.
-2nd EDIT: The Superboy persona should not exist either.
-3rd EDIT: Superman's bio-aura/electro-magnetic field should interfere with electronics, so he must use some sort of device to prevent that from happening.
-4th EDIT: I hate how some writers have made excessively dependent on sunlight. I mean, Superman comes from an extremely advanced ALIEN civilization, so:
a) His natural physiology should play a big part, without sunlight. Kryptonians should be extremely fast and strong, even on Krypton.
b) A civilization that advanced, surely must have used genetic engineering to perfect themselves.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

While I definitely like the idea of Superman's family being primarily humans and hybrids that Superman has inspired, I'm always curious why so many people seem to want Zod to be the one and only villainous Kryptonian in town?

I mean, the guy's a general. He's supposed to be a military genius. Make him a standalone villain and you're denying him his ability to really show that side of himself. A general isn't much of a general if he doesn't have an army. Plus? C'mon! Faora is awesome. Even people who hated MOS thought she was a highlight of the movie.

I love Faora. But then again we got things like New Krypton. I just like him to be the only one (aside from Zod and Faora, of course). It makes him more unique. IMO, of course.

[TheCape]

There is one thing you're missing about Brainiac though. It's not a big enough thing it should change your opinion, but there is a thematic beat that Brainiac hits really well in most of his versions. If Superman is the Man of Tomorrow, then Brainiac is the Nightmare of Tomorrow. If Superman represents a future that we could build by embracing our humanity and humility, then Brainiac represents a future where we sell our humanity for The Other. He's the future we write ourselves out of. We're just a note in a bottle.

I can certanly see the "Nigthmare of Tomorrow" angle, in some stories, but not enought IMO. Althought honestly, DC usually ignore the "Man of Tomorrow" angle most of the time.

If Superman is Star TREK, then Brainiac is the Matrix.

I don't like Matrix, could this mean something?

[TheCape]

Man, sweating, strong, bold, vs the end point of the assembly line and automation. It's a fight for relevancy against our creation. It's why I've always liked it when Superman eventually "rehabilitates" and reprograms Brainiac. It basically shows that eventually mankind wins out, and tech becomes something to help us rather than enslave us.

Personally speaking i think that make Braniac an alien robot, steal of the teeth out of the methaphor.

That said, Eradicator kinda is cooler, and far more straight forward. Though even Eradicator seems to get redundant when Zod comes in. The idea of the worst imperialistic aspects of Superman's old home being twisted and cranked up, and coming to drag him down.

However, I think I like Suicide Squad's take on Zod because it seems to (in a funny way) add more flexibility to him, and even computerize him by adding in prison allegory to it (more than ever). This frees up Eradicator to be a character who is more narrow minded in bringing Krypton back just the way it was. A program that has outlived it's world, but doesn't accept it. Zod in MOS was basically this, and I think it's pretty limited if such a persona is given to a living creature. I like that SS has gone closer to Stamp's Zod.

That's a fair point and yeah Stamp's Zod is just more fun.

[MeloDet]

While I think you are a little harsh on WW,I can't find fault with the whole forcing WW on the Superman books. I find it odd that many people who complain when Batman is shoehorned into the Superman books were perfectly fine when WW was pushed as a supporting cast member for a while there,particularly prior to the Sm/WW book. I'm not a fan of either character ( Batman OR Wonder Woman) being more than a special guest star every 20 issues or so in the SUPERMAN main books. ( Baring cameos,of course).

Did Diana really even pop up all that much in N52 Superman comics? I don't remember her being in anything other than a few Lobdell issues beyond crossovers.

[Superfan90]

My opinions:

Wonder Woman is a garbage character with ill defined mythos and irrelevant to anything Superman related. The romance was shit through and through and only happened to appease a very small number of Tumblr and fanfiction.net users.
It didn't add anything to Superman mythos and would be forgotten like everything Jim Lee and Didio forced on Superman.

New 52 Superman was garbage through and through like most of pre Flashpoint Superman. It was like seeing a boy trying to do a man's work.

Superman screams authority, when he shows people should be in awe and he is not one to be messed with. He is a Goddamn sun god and gods are not to be trifled with.


Batman shouldn't appear in Superman comics.

Superman is the strongest hero bar none and shouldn't be a part of Justice League as most of the time he is just nerfed to make other characters look good.

Darkseid shouldn't be a Superman villain. He is a fourth world character.

Supergirl shouldn't exist.

Eradicator should be up there with A list villains and Superman shouldn't defeat him straight up.

Superman is as fast as Flash.

Superman shouldn't have any weaknesses.

[Vanguard-01]

I love Faora. But then again we got things like New Krypton. I just like him to be the only one (aside from Zod and Faora, of course). It makes him more unique. IMO, of course.

I get that it makes him unique. But unless you change his origin to take out the General thing, how does he ever get to show off why being a legendary Kryptonian General is such a big deal? I mean, we don't have to go the World of New Krypton angle and have thousands of Kryptonians around. But at least giving him a small band of loyal followers gives him some opportunity to show his tactical genius every once in a while.

In the interest of playing with this scenario? Maybe Zod is able to salvage certain Kryptonian technologies that allow him to imbue humans with at least a portion of Kryptonian power? Maybe his followers can come from the ranks of humanity instead of being other Kryptonians? Maybe Faora isn't a Kryptonian soldier at all. Maybe she's a human woman who succumbed to Zod's charisma and he gave her powers so she could help him in his vision of turning Earth into a new Krypton? Maybe "Faora" isn't even her real name? Maybe Zod GAVE her a Kryptonian name along with the powers?

Come to think of it? That's a pretty cool idea. Suddenly the conflict between Superman and Zod isn't just a merely physical conflict. You have two Kryptonian survivors on Earth. These two men have virtually identitcal ideologies, except for a few critical differences. In this scenario? Drop the idea that Zod hates humans and would happily wipe us out if he could. In this scenario, Zod admires humanity nearly as much as Superman does. He agrees with Superman that humans could be a great people who can shape the future of the universe. The only differences between them are how they believe that humanity should be guided to reach their full potential. Superman believes in being a symbol and an ideal for humanity to strive toward, whereas Zod believes that humanity merely needs a strong leader to guide them toward their true potential. That leader, of course, is Zod himself. And by "leader" he, of course, means "dictator."

Suddenly, Zod is a MUCH more complex villain. And the fact that he eventually builds a Super Family of his own, one also comprised primarily of humans he has inspired into following his vision, suddenly turns his conflict with Superman into a clash of ideologies, rather than merely a mustache-twirling world dominator plotting evil plots because that's what he does. Suddenly, the Superman/Zod story becomes something much more akin to the conflict between Professor Xavier and Magneto. Well, you know, back when the X-Men were actually worth reading.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Damn, Vanguard. That's one cool idea. I'd read the hell out of that.

[Jim Kelly]

My Big Controversial Superman Opinion: Superman (Kal-El/Clark Kent) is the lone survivor of the doomed planet Krypton! Everyone else is dead--some just don't know it.

[Netherman14]

My opinions:

Wonder Woman is a garbage character with ill defined mythos and irrelevant to anything Superman related. The romance was shit through and through and only happened to appease a very small number of Tumblr and fanfiction.net users.
It didn't add anything to Superman mythos and would be forgotten like everything Jim Lee and Didio forced on Superman.

I'm not a long-term Superman/Wonder Woman shipper, not am I a fan of the Wonder Woman character. however, I have said this is a matter of opinions (and yes I am aware this very thread consists entirely of opinions).

New 52 Superman was garbage through and through like most of pre Flashpoint Superman. It was like seeing a boy trying to do a man's work.

May I ask which stories have you read featuring the Nu52 version of Superman?

[Superlad93]

Personally speaking i think that make Braniac an alien robot, steal of the teeth out of the methaphor.

But then Superman isn't a human yet he's always the stand in for man in most metaphors in his myth. So I don't see why Brainiac can't be a stand in for all of the worst case scenarios regarding unchecked technology, ya know?

[TheCape]

But then Superman isn't a human yet he's always the stand in for man in most metaphors in his myth. So I don't see why Brainiac can't be a stand in for all of the worst case scenarios regarding unchecked technology, ya know?

Fair enought. Is more of a personal preference, to be honest, i always thought that the scary thing about robot villains is that we made then.

[Jim Kelly]

Superman is human. That's why he's Super Man. He represents the next step in human evolution. He's what we could be. In the early comics, there were Siegel and Shuster feature pages where kids were shown how they could also become super--usually by doing some sort of exercise.